Priebus resigns; Gen. John Kelly new CoS

[BmorePat87]

The Mooch is out after only 10 days. Man, this is embarrassing.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-31-2017, 03:51 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The Mooch is out after only 10 days. Man, this is embarrassing.

This is what happens when that guy from The Apprentice is elected, reality television.

Plus what type of Communications Director texts his wife to congratulate her on the birth of their child? Great communication skills. The greatest. He used the best words in the world's greatest pregnancy related congratulatory tweet. He also uses the best profanity.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-31-2017, 03:51 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The Mooch is out after only 10 days. Man, this is embarrassing.

(07-31-2017, 04:08 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: This is what happens when that guy from The Apprentice is elected, reality television.

Plus what type of Communications Director texts his wife to congratulate her on the birth of their child?  Great communication skills. The greatest. He used the best words in the world's greatest pregnancy related congratulatory tweet. He also uses the best profanity.

It seems rather obvious to me that Scaramucci getting the can was a condition of Kelly's to take the CoS job.  I have a different opinion from Matt in regards to Kelly's hiring, I think this will ultimately work in the administration's favor.  Surrounding himself with military men is probably Trump's best move.  They have several qualities that will enable them to work for Trump effectively.  First, Trump has a large amount of respect for career military guys.  Second, it is ingrained in service members that you do not publicly criticize elected officials.  Thirdly, they have the discipline to keep Trump on task/message without ruffling Trump's feather due to reasons one and two.  I think the diplomacy aspect of the CoS is a bit overstated, in any event at this point they needed a task master will bring order to chaos.

As much as Trump can, and has, screwed up, he is in a unique position in our nations history.  He is the POTUS and has no political baggage, he is ultimately beholden to no one for his position (except, of course, the voters).  If he is kept on task he could accomplish things no other POTUS could contemplate

[NATI BENGALS]

(07-31-2017, 10:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It seems rather obvious to me that Scaramucci getting the can was a condition of Kelly's to take the CoS job.  I have a different opinion from Matt in regards to Kelly's hiring, I think this will ultimately work in the administration's favor.  Surrounding himself with military men is probably Trump's best move.  They have several qualities that will enable them to work for Trump effectively.  First, Trump has a large amount of respect for career military guys.  Second, it is ingrained in service members that you do not publicly criticize elected officials.  Thirdly, they have the discipline to keep Trump on task/message without ruffling Trump's feather due to reasons one and two.  I think the diplomacy aspect of the CoS is a bit overstated, in any event at this point they needed a task master will bring order to chaos.

As much as Trump can, and has, screwed up, he is in a unique position in our nations history.  He is the POTUS and has no political baggage, he is ultimately beholden to no one for his position (except, of course, the voters).  If he is kept on task he could accomplish things no other POTUS could contemplate

A militarized government who promotes police brutality and spreads bs propaganda. Sounds so awesome.

Yes he may accomplish some things no other POTUS would contemplate. They just arent good things. More like 3rd world dictator stuff.

[GMDino]

(08-01-2017, 12:09 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: A militarized government who promotes police brutality and spreads bs propaganda. Sounds so awesome.

Yes he may accomplish some things no other POTUS would contemplate. They just arent good things. More like 3rd world dictator stuff.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-31-2017, 10:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It seems rather obvious to me that Scaramucci getting the can was a condition of Kelly's to take the CoS job.  I have a different opinion from Matt in regards to Kelly's hiring, I think this will ultimately work in the administration's favor.  Surrounding himself with military men is probably Trump's best move.  They have several qualities that will enable them to work for Trump effectively.  First, Trump has a large amount of respect for career military guys.  Second, it is ingrained in service members that you do not publicly criticize elected officials.  Thirdly, they have the discipline to keep Trump on task/message without ruffling Trump's feather due to reasons one and two.  I think the diplomacy aspect of the CoS is a bit overstated, in any event at this point they needed a task master will bring order to chaos.

As much as Trump can, and has, screwed up, he is in a unique position in our nations history.  He is the POTUS and has no political baggage, he is ultimately beholden to no one for his position (except, of course, the voters).  If he is kept on task he could accomplish things no other POTUS could contemplate

He isn't respectful to military men at all. Claiming he received the same training at a prep school for spoiled brats as active duty soldiers is slap in the face to all those soldiers. He knows as much as the generals. He doesn't have any regard for POWs. Hell, he probably thinks Purple Hearts are for losers who get shot.

[treee]

It is in the best interest of the Republicans to distance themselves from Trump if they don't want to sustain sizable losses in both federal houses in 2018 and 2020.

[Benton]

(08-01-2017, 01:00 AM)treee Wrote: It is in the best interest of the Republicans to distance themselves from Trump if they don't want to sustain sizable losses in both federal houses in 2018 and 2020.

I dunno how much that will matter for them. Their platform was getting rid of peoples healthcare and increasing taxes/costs outside of top earners. And they haven't had much success even with the majority.

[treee]

(08-01-2017, 02:04 AM)Benton Wrote: I dunno how much that will matter for them. Their platform was getting rid of peoples healthcare and increasing taxes/costs outside of top earners. And they haven't had much success even with the majority.

Yea but they are outnumbered when Dems actually show up to vote, not to mention the guarenteed increase in apathy for the Moderate repubs from the Trump saga.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-01-2017, 12:09 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: A militarized government who promotes police brutality and spreads bs propaganda. Sounds so awesome.

Yes he may accomplish some things no other POTUS would contemplate. They just arent good things. More like 3rd world dictator stuff.

Yes, we're one step away from a military junta.  I marvel daily at the sure hyperbolic insanity of both the rabidly pro and anti-Trump forces.  Seriously, you all need to get a grip.

(08-01-2017, 12:31 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: He isn't respectful to military men at all. Claiming he received the same training at a prep school for spoiled brats as active duty soldiers is slap in the face to all those soldiers. He knows as much as the generals. He doesn't have any regard for POWs. Hell, he probably thinks Purple Hearts are for losers who get shot.

Calm yourself.  Trump saying douchey things isn't exactly news.  When dealing with an opponent he says whatever comes to mind that he believes will hurt them.  Trump practically worships Mattis and Kelly.  Even if your first statement held water, Trump overwhelmingly received the military vote.  Again, Trump made hyperbole popular and everyone seems to be scrambling to engage in the latest trend.

[GMDino]

(08-01-2017, 09:13 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, we're one step away from a military junta.  I marvel daily at the sure hyperbolic insanity of both the rabidly pro and anti-Trump forces.  Seriously, you all need to get a grip.

No, but you can see the way they line up. The difference is our country is too large and too diversified for it to ever happen. I don't think even someone as uninformed as Trump would consider it.

(08-01-2017, 09:13 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Calm yourself.  Trump saying douchey things isn't exactly news.  When dealing with an opponent he says whatever comes to mind that he believes will hurt them.  Trump practically worships Mattis and Kelly.  Even if your first statement held water, Trump overwhelmingly received the military vote.  Again, Trump made hyperbole popular and everyone seems to be scrambling to engage in the latest trend.

Let's be real: Trump doesn't worship anyone. He wants to associate with people he considers "strong" and "leaders" because he thinks that makes him one of them. The good thing is they probably will tell him what reality is. The question remains if he will listen.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-01-2017, 09:24 AM)GMDino Wrote: No, but you can see the way they line up.  The difference is our country is too large and too diversified for it to ever happen.  I don't think even someone as uninformed as Trump would consider it.

Exactly my point.  It won't happen, it's got as close to zero chance of happening without being zero as you can get, hence my claim of extreme hyperbole.

Quote:Let's be real: Trump doesn't worship anyone.  He wants to associate with people he considers "strong" and "leaders" because he thinks that makes him one of them.  The good thing is they probably will tell him what reality is.  The question remains if he will listen.

See, this is what I don't get about Trump opponents.  Narcissists are very easy to manipulate, hence the Dem strategy towards him, utter and complete opposition, strikes me as counter-productive to their stated objectives.  A little careful flattery, working with him on less harmful subjects, and they could get a fair amount of their agenda added to the Trump agenda.  The question then becomes why wouldn't they take such an obvious course of action that would allow them to actually accomplish something?  Maybe it's because utter opposition plays better with their voter base and they are more concerned with the 2018/20 elections than they are actually accomplishing something in the next two years.  There's also the fact that allowing Trump even a wiff of a victory may help him in those years.  So, much like the GOP, who were much derided for their actions, they would trade two years of accomplishing nothing for a slight chance of winning Congress in 2018.  Kind of shows you were political parties loyalties really lie eh?

[GMDino]

(08-01-2017, 09:45 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Exactly my point.  It won't happen, it's got as close to zero chance of happening without being zero as you can get, hence my claim of extreme hyperbole.



See, this is what I don't get about Trump opponents.  Narcissists are very easy to manipulate, hence the Dem strategy towards him, utter and complete opposition, strikes me as counter-productive to their stated objectives.  A little careful flattery, working with him on less harmful subjects, and they could get a fair amount of their agenda added to the Trump agenda.  The question then becomes why wouldn't they take such an obvious course of action that would allow them to actually accomplish something?  Maybe it's because utter opposition plays better with their voter base and they are more concerned with the 2018/20 elections than they are actually accomplishing something in the next two years.  There's also the fact that allowing Trump even a wiff of a victory may help him in those years.  So, much like the GOP, who were much derided for their actions, they would trade two years of accomplishing nothing for a slight chance of winning Congress in 2018.  Kind of shows you were political parties loyalties really lie eh?

I'm guessing they oppose him so hard and so much is that the GOP is already licking his underside to get what THEY want...so they feel the need to oppose.  If the Dems had a majority in congress you might see a different strategy I bet.

But I totally agree that those closest to him are the ones that kiss up and tell him how smart and great he is.  I doubt the generals will do that...but they will treat him with respect as the POTUS and he'll interpret that as the same thing.

[Benton]

(08-01-2017, 09:45 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Exactly my point.  It won't happen, it's got as close to zero chance of happening without being zero as you can get, hence my claim of extreme hyperbole.



See, this is what I don't get about Trump opponents.  Narcissists are very easy to manipulate, hence the Dem strategy towards him, utter and complete opposition, strikes me as counter-productive to their stated objectives.  A little careful flattery, working with him on less harmful subjects, and they could get a fair amount of their agenda added to the Trump agenda.  The question then becomes why wouldn't they take such an obvious course of action that would allow them to actually accomplish something?  Maybe it's because utter opposition plays better with their voter base and they are more concerned with the 2018/20 elections than they are actually accomplishing something in the next two years.  There's also the fact that allowing Trump even a wiff of a victory may help him in those years.  So, much like the GOP, who were much derided for their actions, they would trade two years of accomplishing nothing for a slight chance of winning Congress in 2018.  Kind of shows you were political parties loyalties really lie eh?

Pretty much the blueprint laid out.

If you're the party out of power, say the other side is obstinate and destroying everything, then decline to take part in the process. It's gotten the GOP all three branches for a moment. Much like the hate speech, misinformation and extremism, it's effective. 

Honestly, though, I don't think it's much about Congress as it is about the White House. With the growing use and acceptance of executive action since the 80s, a minority in Congress with the same party as President can still get a great deal accomplished. 

[Belsnickel]

(07-31-2017, 10:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It seems rather obvious to me that Scaramucci getting the can was a condition of Kelly's to take the CoS job.  I have a different opinion from Matt in regards to Kelly's hiring, I think this will ultimately work in the administration's favor.  Surrounding himself with military men is probably Trump's best move.  They have several qualities that will enable them to work for Trump effectively.  First, Trump has a large amount of respect for career military guys.  Second, it is ingrained in service members that you do not publicly criticize elected officials.  Thirdly, they have the discipline to keep Trump on task/message without ruffling Trump's feather due to reasons one and two.  I think the diplomacy aspect of the CoS is a bit overstated, in any event at this point they needed a task master will bring order to chaos.

As much as Trump can, and has, screwed up, he is in a unique position in our nations history.  He is the POTUS and has no political baggage, he is ultimately beholden to no one for his position (except, of course, the voters).  If he is kept on task he could accomplish things no other POTUS could contemplate

I don't disagree with what Kelly can bring to the table. I just have concerns that the important liaison role will be left unfilled. They could make up for that in other ways, but Kelly has said in the past that generals should stay out of domestic politics. I know that you don't think it is as large a part of the job as I do, so it is understandable that this isn't as big of a concern to you.

I think the keys to Kelly's success in the role will be to keep Javanka in check and to put someone in place that will take on the liaison role and do it well, working to improve relations with those on the Hill.

[hollodero]

(08-01-2017, 09:45 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: See, this is what I don't get about Trump opponents.  Narcissists are very easy to manipulate, hence the Dem strategy towards him, utter and complete opposition, strikes me as counter-productive to their stated objectives.  A little careful flattery, working with him on less harmful subjects, and they could get a fair amount of their agenda added to the Trump agenda.  The question then becomes why wouldn't they take such an obvious course of action that would allow them to actually accomplish something?  Maybe it's because utter opposition plays better with their voter base and they are more concerned with the 2018/20 elections than they are actually accomplishing something in the next two years.  There's also the fact that allowing Trump even a wiff of a victory may help him in those years.  So, much like the GOP, who were much derided for their actions, they would trade two years of accomplishing nothing for a slight chance of winning Congress in 2018.  Kind of shows you were political parties loyalties really lie eh?

Interesting thought.
It would probably be best for the country. And at the same time might be a political mistake (hard to get public credit as opposition party, voters detest Trump and not because of Dems telling them to, plus there are still open investigations and one probably wouldn't want to be tied to the Trump ship). That's the political game. And it's hard to blame the Democrats for following the rules of that game. Especially if doing quite the opposite of what you suggest brought the GOP much success in recent past.

When majorities change in 2018 and the investigations turn out nothing, the strategy will maybe change. If I were a Dem strategist, I would do things quite differently, e.g. develepong and very hardly pushing an own healthcare fix, but I wouldn't quite order to kiss Trump's ass right now.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-01-2017, 09:13 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, we're one step away from a military junta.  I marvel daily at the sure hyperbolic insanity of both the rabidly pro and anti-Trump forces.  Seriously, you all need to get a grip.


1 Calm yourself.  2 Trump saying douchey things isn't exactly news.  3 When dealing with an opponent he says whatever comes to mind that he believes will hurt them.  3 Trump practically worships Mattis and Kelly.  5 Even if your first statement held water, Trump overwhelmingly received the military vote. 6 Again, Trump made hyperbole popular and everyone seems to be scrambling to engage in the latest trend.

1 I am calm. Why does repeating what Trump has said or done give you the impression I need to calm myself? At the risk of seeming upset by asking, but isn't telling a cal person to calm themselves the same type of hyperbole you're complaining about?

2 Saying douchey things about one POW applies to all POWs. Who was he trying to hurt when he claimed his prep school education provided the same military training as the military?

3 Attacking their military background is an indication Trump does not respect their military service. Publicly casting doubt on intelligence reports headed by career military officers IOT discredit said reports is disrespectful.

4 Only until they get the Jeff Sessions treatment. The one consistent trait Trump has demonstrated is his inconsistency. Not only related to topics such as healthcare, his political ideology and party affiliation, choice of spouse, but also his opinion regarding advisors and business associates. It's only a matter of time before Trump plunging the knife in their backs, too.

5 I don't know if Trump "overwhelmingly" received the military vote, sounds like hyperbole to me, but in polls published in The Army times Trump was almost if not just as unpopular as Hillary among service members. Like I've said many times, choosing between Trump and Hillary was like choosing which sexually transmitted disease would you like; gonorrhea or chlamydia. Just because more people choose gonorrhea doesn't mean they like gonorrhea. Just means they like chlamydia less. They both cause burning urination, but the Republicans only talked about how bad chlamydia was for four years on Fox.

6 Trump made hyperbole popular? And "everyone" is following his example? Really? Everyone?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-01-2017, 09:45 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Exactly my point.  It won't happen, it's got as close to zero chance of happening without being zero as you can get, hence my claim of extreme hyperbole.



See, this is what I don't get about Trump opponents.  Narcissists are very easy to manipulate, hence the Dem strategy towards him, utter and complete opposition, strikes me as counter-productive to their stated objectives.  A little careful flattery, working with him on less harmful subjects, and they could get a fair amount of their agenda added to the Trump agenda.  

In otherwords, the Democrats need to act like Russians. How ironic.

Quote:The question then becomes why wouldn't they take such an obvious course of action that would allow them to actually accomplish something?  Maybe it's because utter opposition plays better with their voter base and they are more concerned with the 2018/20 elections than they are actually accomplishing something in the next two years.  There's also the fact that allowing Trump even a wiff of a victory may help him in those years.  So, much like the GOP, who were much derided for their actions, they would trade two years of accomplishing nothing for a slight chance of winning Congress in 2018.  Kind of shows you were political parties loyalties really lie eh?

Those are fair criticism of Democratic opposition if the opposition is just for opposition's sake to gain a political advantage during the next election cycles. What less harmful subjects would you propose compromise?

[BmorePat87]

(07-31-2017, 10:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It seems rather obvious to me that Scaramucci getting the can was a condition of Kelly's to take the CoS job.  I have a different opinion from Matt in regards to Kelly's hiring, I think this will ultimately work in the administration's favor.  Surrounding himself with military men is probably Trump's best move.  They have several qualities that will enable them to work for Trump effectively.  First, Trump has a large amount of respect for career military guys.  Second, it is ingrained in service members that you do not publicly criticize elected officials.  Thirdly, they have the discipline to keep Trump on task/message without ruffling Trump's feather due to reasons one and two.  I think the diplomacy aspect of the CoS is a bit overstated, in any event at this point they needed a task master will bring order to chaos.

As much as Trump can, and has, screwed up, he is in a unique position in our nations history.  He is the POTUS and has no political baggage, he is ultimately beholden to no one for his position (except, of course, the voters).  If he is kept on task he could accomplish things no other POTUS could contemplate

I agree that it could work, but the ultimate question is: can even a bunch of generals keep him from derailing his presidency? 

I don't know. They're far more disciplined than the alternative, but it's his discipline that matters at this point. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Sociopathicsteelerfan ' Wrote: If he is kept on task he could accomplish things no other POTUS could contemplate

Claiming Trump can accomplish things no other president can even contemplate is pure hyperbole. One of the very things you complain about with others.

It is also false. Consider Obamacare repeal and replace. What has Trump done as a leader to accomplish what he has contemplated?

1) He hasn't proposed any plan or ideas of his own. He has passed the buck to McConnell and Ryan.

2) You can claim he delegated his authority to McConnell and Ryan, but Trump hasn't accepted responsibility for the failed legislation. Again passing the buck to McConnell and Ryan.

3) What actual work has he done to get the bills passed? Twitter rants, threats to defund insurance exchanges, name calling, and bullying.

That's his style of leadership. That's what he has done as a businessman. He is well known for buying companies in debt then threatens to declare bankruptcy unless the bank renegotiates or actually does declare bankruptcy.

No amount of Generals looking over his shoulder can make him interested in actually governing.

Hell, no one has been able to convince him to stay the **** off Twitter. If some can't do that the chances of succeeding at actually accomplishing the difficult tasks (with control of the House, Senate, and executive branch) is slim to none.