Rebuilding the Defense First is the Key to Success

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The road to the Cincinnati Bengals' next Super Bowl appearance begins on the defensive side of the ball. After watching every play of yesterday's horrific loss to the Baltimore Ravens, it's time to re-rebuild. The last Bengal rebuild started on defense with Mike Zimmer being hired as defensive coordinator in 2008. In 2009, the Bengals had the fourth ranked defense in the entire league, swept the AFC North, and this is when the 2009-2015 playoff run began. Once the Bengals lost Mike Zimmer, the downhill slide began. Now, four years and four defensive coordinators later, the Cincinnati defense is #32 which is dead last.

I like Lou Anarumo. He's a great guy. I liked Teryl Austin. He kept Ndamukong Suh on a short leash in Detroit. I liked Marvin Lewis. His 2000 Baltimore Ravens' defense still holds the scoring defense record almost two decades later. I liked Paul Guenther. He was the last true linebacker Subject Matter Expert the Bengals hired. However, none of these four defensive coordinators was or, in the case of Lou, is the long term solution. The first thing to do, as I see it, is to convince a big name defensive coordinator with a solid record of results to come to coach in Cincinnati. If the Front Office would open their wallet and cede some control, it could happen.

The two men who immediately come to mind are Greg Schiano and Jack Del Rio. I understand Jack Del Rio was interviewed by the Bengals but there was no agreement. If someone knows more, please chime in. Greg Schiano was hired by the Patriots but did not continue in the job for personal reasons. If anyone knows more, please share. Maybe some of you have even better suggestions.

If a big name defensive coordinator comes to Cincinnati he must be given complete freedom to select players who fit his scheme and to release players who do not. It's probably time to look at trade deals involving Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, and Dre Kirkpatrick anyway. Like it or not, these fine players are past their primes -- but to be fair I'm not sure Dre Kirkpatrick had a prime. Drafting edge rusher Chase Young from Ohio State might prove to be the linchpin of a new era in defense in Cincinnati.

A shutdown defense is vital to any team who desires a Lombardi Trophy. The Cincinnati Bengals were on the right track in 2009 and ten years later the team needs to think defense first again.

[grampahol]

The Brown family commitment to anything is the commitment to getting paid to be terrible. They're not about to commit to anyone controlling anything leading to anything resembling success and any time they do accidentally hire a decent coordinator the bungles will ALWAYS let them walk in favor of the almighty greenback. Folks need to give up on this fantasy that this team is ever going anywhere as long as the Brown family owns it lock, stock and barrel. They have zero plans for improvement of any real significance and never have. Why people keep insisting the contrary is just mind boggling. The only improvement in this team will come if the entire Brown family either sells the team (they won't) or all get killed in a fiery plane crash into a mountainside. 

[fredtoast]

Biggest mystery is disappearance of Carlos and Geno. They are healthy and they have dropped off too quickly for it to be just "age".

I can understand some of our good DBs (Jackson, Kirkpatrick, bates) looking bad because of bad schemes or coaching. They seem to be lost a lot and many big plays are due to busted coverage instead of just getting beaten man-to-man. But Geno and Carlos just have to win moreone-on-one battles. They have looked bad this year.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-11-2019, 10:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Biggest mystery is disappearance of Carlos and Geno. They are healthy and they have dropped off too quickly for it to be just "age".

But Geno and Carlos just have to win moreone-on-one battles. They have looked bad this year.

Part of this decline, I think, is bad coaching. In fact, bad coaching is ubiquitous all across the Bengals’ organization. Fred is right on this point, though. Where have Geno and Carlos been? First of all, they get blocked by two people each a lot. The other lineman only require a single block to be controlled. The other factors I see in their decline include losing Domata Peko to Denver and the lack of rotations on the defensive line.

Domata Peko took up two blockers on every play and it’s not a coincidence that the Bengals’ run defense got a lot worse the moment he left for the Broncos. When Peko absorbed two blockers it was easier for Atkins and Dunlap to make more plays.

Remember rotations? Mike Zimmer rotated lineman in and out during the entire game so they would be fresh in the fourth quarter. The Bengals don’t do that anymore.

[THE PISTONS]

It's coaching and scheme. When we played 4-3 last year...we couldn't stop the run. So they decided to take 1 LB off the field.

Then, when we're getting ran outside on...they bring in a 3rd DT for 5 defensive lineman. That's basic things that any decent coach would laugh at.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 10:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Biggest mystery is disappearance of Carlos and Geno.  They are healthy and they have dropped off too quickly for it to be just "age".

I can understand some of our good DBs (Jackson, Kirkpatrick, bates) looking bad because of bad schemes or coaching.  They seem to be lost a lot and many big plays are due to busted coverage instead of just getting beaten man-to-man.  But Geno and Carlos just have to win moreone-on-one battles.  They have looked bad this year.

Bates has declined also. 

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2019, 11:01 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Part of this decline, I think, is bad coaching. In fact, bad coaching is ubiquitous all across the Bengals’ organization.   Fred is right on this point, though. Where have Geno and Carlos been? First of all, they get blocked by two people each a lot. The other lineman only require a single block to be controlled. The other factors I see in their decline include losing Domata Peko to Denver and the lack of rotations on the defensive line.

Domata Peko took up two blockers on every play and it’s not a coincidence that the Bengals’ run defense got a lot worse the moment he left for the Broncos.  When Peko absorbed two blockers it was easier for Atkins and Dunlap to make more plays.

Remember rotations? Mike Zimmer rotated lineman in and out during the entire game so they would be fresh in the fourth quarter. The Bengals don’t do that anymore.

In '17 and '18 after Peko was Gone geno still averaged 9.5 sacks and 20 QB hits.  This year he is on pace for 6 and 11.  Dunlap averaged 8 sacks and 23 QB hits in '17-'18.  This year he is on pace for 2 and 9.

Last year Dunlap had 38 pressures (8 sacks, 18 hurries, 12 QB knock downs)  this year he is on pace for 16.  Geno had 35 pressures last year.  This year he is on pace for 21.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In '17 and '18 after Peko was Gone geno still averaged 9.5 sacks and 20 QB hits.  This year he is on pace for 6 and 11.  Dunlap averaged 8 sacks and 23 QB hits in '17-'18.  This year he is on pace for 2 and 9.

Last year Dunlap had 38 pressures (8 sacks, 18 hurries, 12 QB knock downs)  this year he is on pace for 16.  Geno had 35 pressures last year.  This year he is on pace for 21.

Do you think that they have lost faith in the staff...and are just kind of going through the motions?

From everything I've read Geno is as hard of a worker as they come. But, it's hard to find plausible explanations.

[Atomic Orange]

Yes, we need new coaches. I'd get Jack and Jay in here whatever it costs and if it's a problem of them not wanting to coach under Green Zac - you fire Green Zac and bring in Gary.

Mike, keep your mouth shut and get what these guys need in FA. (i know lol)

Just start there.

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2019, 11:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote:
From everything I've read Geno is as hard of a worker as they come. But, it's hard to find plausible explanations.

This.  Geno is the last guy on the team I would accuse of just giving up, but it is hard to find any logical explanation.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 11:29 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Yes, we need new coaches. I'd get Jack and Jay in here whatever it costs and if it's a problem of them not wanting to coach under Green Zac - you fire Green Zac and bring in Gary.

Mike, keep your mouth shut and get what these guys need in FA. (i know lol)

Just start there.

The ship has likely sailed on Del Rio. I doubt he'd come here now.

[Au165]

I have a thread in the draft forum basically saying pass on QB this year to rebuild the defense first. The reality is the defense is bad and has been for the last four or five years. As much as we like some of the guys on it we are overvaluing their level of play at this point. Some may be declining, others may have never been as good as we thought, and some could be scheme but in the end this unit is new to being bad.

[Atomic Orange]

(11-11-2019, 11:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The ship has likely sailed on Del Rio. I doubt he'd come here now.

I know.


Feels like it's over for the Bengals in Cincy - it really does.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Bottom meet Rock.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 11:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This.  Geno is the last guy on the team I would accuse of just giving up, but it is hard to find any logical explanation.

I think the players gave Taylor and company the benefit of the doubt. The easy training camp. Then over time I think they saw the staff was in over their head at basically every level.

Whether conscious or not...that takes a toll on people.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Rebuild the organization from the top is the ONLY path to success.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

Top 70 picks on D the last 5 drafts:

2015: None
2016: 24th Overall
2017: None
2018: 54th Overall
2019: None

Notable D free agents signed qualifying for a 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick 2015-19: None
Notable players traded for on D 2015-19: None

Notable departures on D

2016: Reggie Nelson (21st overall), Leon Hall (21st overall)
2017: Rey Maualuga (38th overall)
2018: Adam Jones (6th overall)

[*Synric*]

I've wanted Jamie Collins in stripes for years and they might get another chance this offseason. Yes he will be 31 next year but he is having thr best season of his career and looks to have a new lease on life.

The Patriots will have both Collins and Van Noy hitting free agency in 2020.

[JSR18]

I'm agreeing with most of you guys. However, I actually think this team needs a tackling coach because it seems most of our defenders have forgotten the art of tackling. Its just un-Godly how many missed tackles we have every week. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say we are 31st/32nd in tackling...

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 01:07 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Top 70 picks on D the last 5 drafts:

2015: None
2016: 24th Overall
2017: None
2018: 54th Overall
2019: None

Notable D free agents signed qualifying for a 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick 2015-19: None
Notable players traded for on D 2015-19: None

Notable departures on D

2016: Reggie Nelson (21st overall), Leon Hall (21st overall)
2017: Rey Maualuga (38th overall)
2018: Adam Jones (6th overall)

Odd the offense is so bad still. :-)