Representative Government

[Bengalzona]

We have a law being enacted which it is reported only 28% of the people support. Whatever happened to a government where the elected officials actually represented their people? Did that ever exist? Didn't the Revolution have something to do with representation?

Thoughts?

[GMDino]

(12-20-2017, 05:55 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: We have a law being enacted which it is reported only 28% of the people support. Whatever happened to a government where the elected officials actually represented their people? Did that ever exist? Didn't the Revolution have something to do with representation?

Thoughts?

Did they ever?

I mean in the 1800's did Farmer Joe really know if the guy he voted for was doing anything he wanted?

We can just watch them screw us in real time now.

With a smile on their face as they party on our dime.

What a time to be alive, eh?

[*bfine32*]

3 things come to mind:

What's the law in question?

Your representative should represent your wants and desires; however, there is no guarantee. If he/she doesn't represent his/her constituents to their liking the they can vote the representative out in the next elections.

Common folks don't always take the time to peel back the onion they base their whims on the cover of the book.

[GMDino]

(12-20-2017, 06:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 3 things come to mind:

What's the law in question?

Your representative should represent your wants and desires; however, there is no guarantee. If he/she doesn't represent his/her constituents to their liking the they can vote the representative out in the next elections.

Common folks don't always take the time to peel back the onion they base their whims on the cover of the book.

"tax reform"

As long as the gerrymandered district allows for it...or even competition.

Which is why they get away with it.  And why the elected like lower educated people.

[*bfine32*]

(12-20-2017, 06:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: "tax reform"

As long as the gerrymandered district allows for it...or even competition.

Which is why they get away with it.  And why the elected like lower educated people.

Ah, tax reform.

But me down as one of the uneducated that does not know all the details of the new Bill to give an educated opinion if I like it or not. I can tell you what I'm "supposed" to think about it, but that's just coming from more lawmakers.

[Bengalzona]

(12-20-2017, 06:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Common folks don't always take the time to peel back the onion they base their whims on the cover of the book.

I definitely agree with this. And it is equally prevalent on either side of the aisle. More so today than ever before it seems, as people treat politics more like a football game with sides to cheer for and against rather than people enacting laws which will have a real impact on their lives.

I don't know how the tax act will go. I'm not surprised it was pushed through without popular support as I understand that most legislation during the past few decades has not had popular support. I've decided that I will try and keep an open mind and positive attitude and hope it works out.

[Goalpost]

I think people are in a wait and see, so they don’t want to commit. Partisan environment causes that.

[GMDino]

(12-20-2017, 06:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ah, tax reform.

But me down as one of the uneducated that does not know all the details of the new Bill to give an educated opinion if I like it or not. I can tell you what I'm "supposed" to think about it, but that's just coming from more lawmakers.

(12-20-2017, 06:31 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I definitely agree with this. And it is equally prevalent on either side of the aisle. More so today than ever before it seems, as people treat politics more like a football game with sides to cheer for and against rather than people enacting laws which will have a real impact on their lives.

I don't know how the tax act will go. I'm not surprised it was pushed through without popular support as I understand that most legislation during the past few decades has not had popular support. I've decided that I will try and keep an open mind and positive attitude and hope it works out.

(12-20-2017, 06:43 PM)Goalpost Wrote: I think people are in a wait and see, so they don’t want to commit.  Partisan environment causes that.

It's the same, failed policy that the GOP has tried since Reagan.

Look to the last time the GOP controlled congress and the Presidency and look to Kansas now.

Pretty easy to see what will happen....what always happens.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2017, 06:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: It's the same, failed policy that the GOP has tried since Reagan.

Look to the last time the GOP controlled congress and the Presidency and look to Kansas now.

Pretty easy to see what will happen....what always happens.

I don't know man, but the opening of drilling in ANWR is going to mean a lot of good paying jobs for people.

As for the tax reform part, companies repatriating money and jobs to the US can only be a good thing.  Glad they lowered the corporate rate.

As for my family?  Meh, we might come out 1K ahead, but ahead is ahead.

[Bengalzona]

(12-20-2017, 06:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: It's the same, failed policy that the GOP has tried since Reagan.

Look to the last time the GOP controlled congress and the Presidency and look to Kansas now.

Pretty easy to see what will happen....what always happens.

(12-20-2017, 07:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't know man, but the opening of drilling in ANWR is going to mean a lot of good paying jobs for people.

As for the tax reform part, companies repatriating money and jobs to the US can only be a good thing.  Glad they lowered the corporate rate.

As for my family?  Meh, we might come out 1K ahead, but ahead is ahead.

I suspect some good and some bad will come from this. Some jobs will be created (good). Class income differential will skyrocket (bad). American companies will bring more money back into the U.S. and will use it (good). Our deficit will skyrocket, we will borrow massive amounts of money from China, and Paul Ryan will call for Congress to 'commandeer' Social Security funds (warfare in the streets type bad).

We'll see.

[CKwi88]

(12-20-2017, 07:56 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I suspect some good and some bad will come from this. Some jobs will be created (good). Class income differential will skyrocket (bad). American companies will bring more money back into the U.S. and will use it (good). Our deficit will skyrocket, we will borrow massive amounts of money from China, and Paul Ryan will call for Congress to 'commandeer' Social Security funds (warfare in the streets type bad).

We'll see.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that repatriation will do any good for anyone other than the already rich shareholders of billion dollar companies. Like mostly everything in this reform, it has already been done, and has not worked, at least for he "little guys" we're told it helps.

People are going to see an extra couple hundred bucks in their pocket, all while the ultra wealthy will pocket millions. But many people can't see beyond the end of their noses and realize this bill is a time bomb.

[NATI BENGALS]

Um the elected officials do represent their people. The special interests and lobbyists who wrote this law love it. The mental midgets who watch fox news every day, and believe trump when he says this hurts him, sadly are a large portion of our population.

Half the country comprehends current events the other half thinks the fbi is trying to overthrow the president.

I have hope its not 50/50 and a good portion is russian trolls and dead people blasting net neutrality. But i quit overestimating our collective iq last november

[Yojimbo]

Representative of who? The current manifestation of our government is representative of who gives them the most money. Created by stacking Citizens United v. FEC on top of Buckley v. Valeo.

Want to know who a politician represents? Just follow the money.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-20-2017, 07:56 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I suspect some good and some bad will come from this. Some jobs will be created (good). Class income differential will skyrocket (bad). American companies will bring more money back into the U.S. and will use it (good). Our deficit will skyrocket, we will borrow massive amounts of money from China, and Paul Ryan will call for Congress to 'commandeer' Social Security funds (warfare in the streets type bad).

We'll see.

We can always cut spending across the board to stop any deficits. Would love a balanced budget amendment.

[Belsnickel]

The idea of a representative government is that we, the people, send statesmen to the government to do the job of governing. They know the plights of the people, they understand government, and so they can do the job. Some may even be experts in a particular field and so they sit on committees that handle that and offer up their knowledge to help in crafting policy. For more specific details, they have an army of bureaucrats in the government that can offer up their expertise on certain things in their departments and they have staffers on the Hill to help them with the same things.

What has happened is that we no longer elect statesmen. The politicians we do elect go to Washington and instead of surrounding themselves with staffers and working with bureaucrats that really understand these policies and how they work, they have pushed their staffers to their local offices to do constituent relations (so they don't have to themselves) and they have spurned the bureaucrats since government is now bad since the Nixon era. Instead, they rely more on the party structure to guide them as well as the lobbyists that fill the coffers of both the party and them. But let's be clear, the power of lobbyists is not in the money, it is really in the access. Well over half of the lobbyists in Washington once graced those halls as employees of the government. They know the players, they know the ins and outs, and they know what these people need to hear to make things happen.

All of that being said, just because legislation polls poorly doesn't mean it shouldn't be put in place. The general public is generally ignorant of what needs to happen in government. I personally see this tax bill as bad policy, but how many people that answer they don't like the bill can articulate with any sort of clarity the reason why? I have been reading information on this bill and the poll numbers, and the percentage of lower to middle class people that that think their taxes will go up is something like three times the actual percentage.

The people don't always know what they want, and they certainly don't always know what they need, which is why we have a representative government and not a direct democracy. Again, I am not defending the tax bill with this, but rather just saying why legislation that may be unpopular with the public will be passed. If you don't like what the lawmakers do, then change who represents you; that is what makes it a representative government.

[BmorePat87]

Democrats reap what they sow. They pushed a healthcare bill through without knowing what's in it and now Republicans are pushing a tax bill through without knowing what's in it.

[Belsnickel]

(12-21-2017, 09:57 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Democrats reap what they sow. They pushed a healthcare bill through without knowing what's in it and now Republicans are pushing a tax bill through without knowing what's in it.

While I don't disagree with you entirely, the number of hearings and the amount of debate around the ACA was significantly more than this bill. A percentage measured in the hundreds more.

[*Nately120*]

(12-21-2017, 09:57 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Democrats reap what they sow. They pushed a healthcare bill through without knowing what's in it and now Republicans are pushing a tax bill through without knowing what's in it.

Boy, I really hope the next item on the agenda involves Libertarians pushing some insane bill through the system!

[Bengalzona]

(12-21-2017, 12:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Boy, I really hope the next item on the agenda involves Libertarians pushing some insane bill through the system!

Don't they have one about completely dissolving the federal government and everybody doing whatever the heck they wanna do?

[*Nately120*]

(12-21-2017, 12:56 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Don't they have one about completely dissolving the federal government and everybody doing whatever the heck they wanna do?

That's scary.  I don't know what I'd do without people like Nancy Peolsi and Donald Trump guiding me!