Roe Vs Wade Overturned

[GMDino]

(04-19-2023, 10:43 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: What about the life of the baby created by rape? I guess some people think it is worthless. There have been women who gave birth to a baby after being raped. All life should be valued. Some people can forgive horrible events.

As soon as we can safely transplant it into the rapists body for him to carry to term I'm all for it.  Until then the choice belongs to the woman who was raped.

[*Nately120*]

(04-20-2023, 04:40 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Think you're talking about just the past. Because of the rioting, pandemic, and crime, African American gun ownership jumped 58% (primarily black women) in the first 6 months of 2020 alone. It's the biggest increase of any demographic.. Since then the Supreme Court made the DC v Heller ruling and 10 states have had permit-less concealed carry come into effect.

I think saying that now might be a bit like saying enlisting in the military is for the poor, which came from Vietnam, but for a good while now the enlisted are primarily middle-class. Will there be more isolated instances where it's true? Sure. Is it the norm anymore? No.

I hear ya, but a few buts (I'm a but man, aren't we all?).  The Governor Reagan gun control thing is always relevant as long as he's the gilded golden child of the modern day conservative party.  Still, while blacks are legally obtaining firearms you still aren't likely to see a lot of pride or advertisements regarding blacks arming themselves to defend themselves from militarized or racist police officers...as much as we love to talk about the idea of the 2A saving us from government overreach.  Add in that recent events have shown at least the loudest conservative voices open to the idea of limiting firearm availability to trans people in light of a shooting, and it could be said that people still picture the 2A putting guns in the hands of good (ie, white conservative) people.

The military may not be as "for the poor" as it was when my ol' man was drafted, but during the student loan forgiveness debate it was said out loud that easing the financial burden of higher education will hamstring one of their main recruiting tools, so the aspect is still relevant.

Back to banning weapons that black folks were legally able to get, apparently in PA the switchblade ban from the 50s was lifted in January of this year, but brass knuckles are still illegal.  In this state since 1958 it has been deemed illegal to carry an "offensive weapon" so make sense of that.  Anyways, I'm off to buy a switchblade, some Brylcreem and a fresh pack of Luckies. 



EDIT - I just realized this is the Roe vs Wade thread.  I'm just a generic political sour grapist...sorry.

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-19-2023, 10:43 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: What about the life of the baby created by rape? I guess some people think it is worthless. There have been women who gave birth to a baby after being raped. All life should be valued. Some people can forgive horrible events.

If you are so obessed with the sacrity of life, maybe you should check if you can give a kidney to someone who needs one to continue his journey through life ... 

[*pally*]

(04-19-2023, 10:43 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: What about the life of the baby created by rape? I guess some people think it is worthless. There have been women who gave birth to a baby after being raped. All life should be valued. Some people can forgive horrible events.

Women have CHOSEN to give birth after rape.  It shouldn't be up to anyone else to decide what she can physically,  mentally, and financially handle.

You would think that pro-birthers consider life valuable but no.  They are willing to sacrifice the life or health of the mother for the child.  They are willing to sacrifice a woman's living children for her unborn one. There is far more to being pro-life than simply being pro-birth

You will never ever legislate abortion out of existence.  They will legislate away access to safe abortion.  They will prevent access to abortion by poor women  If you want to prevent abortion then address the issues that lead to that choice.  Something that these state legislators and Congressmen refuse to do

1) Let's start off by preventing pregnancy...comprehensive sex education starting early.  If a 10 year can get pregnant a 10 year needs to know how and why it happens in the first place and how to prevent it.  Multiple studies show that the more informed a young person (boys and girls) is about sex the more likely they are to wait and to use birth control.  Teaching abstinence-only DOES NOT WORK.  I used to run a women's healthcare message board.  The lack of knowledge about sex from young women is frightening.  


2) Easy and affordable access to a variety of birth control methods...with or without parental permission.  I'm sorry conservative Christian parents but your kids proudly wearing their chastity rings are having sex.  Those girls are the most likely to have an abortion without parental knowledge

3) Comprehensive medical care including mental health
4) living wages
5) a real food safety net
6) affordable and safe housing
7) paid parental leave 
8) affordable and accessible childcare available regardless of what shift the parent works
9) real support for families with disabled children
10) protect women from their rapist's involvement in their or child's life
11) education and job training assistance

additionally
1) massive research is needed into preventing pregnancy complications that kill women every day
2) massive research is needed into anomalies that cause congenital disabilities in the child.  

Keep in mind even with everything in place that the need for abortion will still exist.  Women will still experience life-threatening complications that require termination of the pregnancy.  And the woman shouldn't have to wait until they are on their deathbed to do so.  Fetuses will still have developmental problems that are incompatible with life.  No woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy that will end with the baby living in pain for only minutes or days.

Oh, and being pro-death penalty is incompatible with being pro-life.  Either life is valued or it is not.

It is easy to be pro-birth....it is much harder to be truly pro-life 

[*Nately120*]

Man, no wonder there aren't any chicks here. Well, except for when Shayne Graham's sister would show up.

[*pally*]

(04-20-2023, 10:42 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Man, no wonder there aren't any chicks here.  Well, except for when Shayne Graham's sister would show up.

maybe if you didn't call women chicks there would be more of us

[*Nately120*]

(04-20-2023, 10:44 AM)pally Wrote: maybe if you didn't call women chicks there would be more of us

It's nothing personal, but since I got married my wife insisted I be as repellent to other women as possible. 

[KillerGoose]

Here is a very unfortunate case right here in Oklahoma. A woman who had a molar pregnancy that became cancerous was told that a surgical abortion could not be performed until she was "crashing" or her blood pressure went so high that she was on the brink of a heart attack. She was told that she had to wait in the parking lot until her condition deteriorated enough to be seen.

Link.

Oklahoma has some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the nation. There is a clause for medical emergencies but this did not fit under the medical emergency clause at that point in time, so she had to wait for it to become one. Eventually, she went to Wichita to have the procedure performed. The clinic she visited had protestors holding signs that said "Stone The Whores".

For proponents of abortion restriction - is this acceptable in your opinion? Is this what you are wanting, or is this too restrictive?

[BigPapaKain]

(04-27-2023, 09:48 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Here is a very unfortunate case right here in Oklahoma. A woman who had a molar pregnancy that became cancerous was told that a surgical abortion could not be performed until she was "crashing" or her blood pressure went so high that she was on the brink of a heart attack. She was told that she had to wait in the parking lot until her condition deteriorated enough to be seen.

Link.

Oklahoma has some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the nation. There is a clause for medical emergencies but this did not fit under the medical emergency clause at that point in time, so she had to wait for it to become one. Eventually, she went to Wichita to have the procedure performed. The clinic she visited had protestors holding signs that said "Stone The Whores".

For proponents of abortion restriction - is this acceptable in your opinion? Is this what you are wanting, or is this too restrictive?

Ah the party of life watching as non-life ruins a life.

So wholesome. So loving. So full of shit.

[*Nately120*]

(04-27-2023, 09:48 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: The clinic she visited had protestors holding signs that said "Stone The Whores".

If these people showed enough conviction in their vindictive old testament stuff to stone Trump and MTG for their whoring I would have to begrudgingly respect their supposed morals.

[GMDino]

Honestly they all live in caves, don't they?

Nebraska State Sen. Steve Halloran (R-Hastings): "No one's forcing anyone to be pregnant. Pregnant's a voluntary act between two consenting adults." pic.twitter.com/sLtYVbovZU

— Heartland Signal (@HeartlandSignal) April 27, 2023

 

[samhain]

(04-19-2023, 10:43 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: What about the life of the baby created by rape? I guess some people think it is worthless. There have been women who gave birth to a baby after being raped. All life should be valued. Some people can forgive horrible events.

Some people being amenable to being forced to have kids after a rape does not equate to all people being legally compelled to do the same.  

That's like saying that people should all be forced to eat 60 hot dogs in ten minutes because Joey Chestnut did it voluntarily.  I mean, some people can do it, right?  Why shouldn't everyone?

[GMDino]

Update on the charges against the doctor:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/2023/05/26/doctors-react-indiana-abortion-case-caitlin-bernard-reprimand/70261267007/

Quote:'Chilling effect': National experts decry decision against abortion doctor Caitlin Bernard
Johnny MagdalenoBrittany Carloni
Indianapolis Star

View Comments
[/url][url=http://twitter.com/share?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indystar.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Flocal%2F2023%2F05%2F26%2Fdoctors-react-indiana-abortion-case-caitlin-bernard-reprimand%2F70261267007%2F&text=%27Chilling%20effect%27%3A%20National%20experts%20decry%20decision%20against%20abortion%20doctor%20Caitlin%20Bernard&via=indystar]






0:28
1:01






Dressed in white coats, Drs. Tracey Wilkinson and Caroline Rouse were among the first to arrive at Caitlin Bernard’s Thursday hearing in front of the Indiana medical licensing board. When the hearing ended nearly 15 hours later, they were among the last to leave. 


Six months after Indiana's Republican attorney general filed a complaint against the Indianapolis obstetrician-gynecologist, the board voted to reprimand and fine Bernard on Thursday, finding that she violated privacy laws in giving a reporter information about a 10-year-old rape victim.

But representatives of the medical community nationwide – from individual doctors to the American Medical Association to an author of HIPAA – don’t think Bernard did anything wrong. Further, they say, the decision will have a chilling effect on those involved with patient care.

Indiana abortion case:Board says Dr. Caitlin Bernard violated 10-year-old's privacy
[/url]
“This sends a message to all doctors everywhere that political persecution can be happening to you next for providing health care to your patients,” Wilkinson said. 

“It’s terrible,” Rouse said. They’d just spent hours “listening to our friend and our colleague be put on trial for taking care of her patient and providing evidence-based health care, and that is incredibly demoralizing as a physician.” 


Todd Rokita says 'trust ... was broken'
Bernard told an IndyStar reporter the patient’s age, the state she was coming from, the fact that she was pregnant and her gestational age in an interview at an abortion rights rally last year. After the July 2022 story was published, Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita went on Fox News and said his office was looking into whether Bernard violated any laws.

Bernard and her attorneys brought in witnesses – including a top ethics expert from the AMA – who said she didn't commit any violations. But she was ultimately fined $3,000 total for three privacy law charges, and will receive a letter of reprimand. The board rejected Rokita's two other charges, one alleging that she violated child abuse reporting requirements and the other that she is unfit to practice medicine.

Bernard and her attorneys said Friday that the board never identified what protected health information they feel she revealed.

Dr. Caitlin Bernard timeline:An Indiana doctor spoke up about a 10-year-old's abortion. Here's what happened since




Rokita cast the decision of the seven-person, governor-appointed medical licensing board as a victory for patients rather than a political maneuver on his part.

"Like we have said for a year, this case was about patient privacy and the trust between the doctor and patient that was broken," his office said after the decision. "What if it was your child or your parent or your sibling who was going through a sensitive medical crisis, and the doctor, who you thought was on your side, ran to the press for political reasons?"

"It’s not right, and the facts we presented today made that clear," the statement said.
But health care experts who responded Friday to the board's decision saw it differently.

HIPAA author Donna Shalala: 'It's outrageous'
Donna Shalala, who helped write federal HIPAA patient privacy law during her eight years as the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services under former President Bill Clinton, told IndyStar Bernard did not violate the law. She thought Bernard “was very careful in what she did reveal.” 

“There was just no way that she identified this patient with the information that she released,” Shalala said. 
She said that actions in states around the country, like the board's finding, can deter doctors. 

“They’re criminalizing the practice of medicine and they’re literally asking doctors in this country to do harm,” Shalala said. “This is the opposite of what they went to medical school for and what their oath is. It’s the criminalization of American medicine and it’s outrageous.”

Previously on Rokita:[url=https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/indianapolis/2023/04/11/todd-rokita-argues-against-dropping-indiana-doctor-caitlin-bernard-lawsuit-10-year-old-abortion-case/70103715007/]Dr. Bernard tries to dismiss lawsuit against Rokita. He wants his day in court.

IU Health, Planned Parenthood defend Bernard
Bernard's employers came to her defense Friday in separate statements. IU Health said it disagreed with the board's findings on patient privacy, and Planned Parenthood described her as a victim of Rokita's "politically motivated attacks."

The AMA also published a strongly worded editorial about the case. President Jack Resneck said it was an example of how "harm to patients and our nation’s public health triggered by last year’s U.S. Supreme Court decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization continues to expand and worsen."


"That’s because lawmakers, state officials and other third parties are seeking to exert their influence into the patient-physician relationship, impede access to evidence-based reproductive health services, and criminalize care based on political ideology instead of science," Resneck wrote.

David Jose, a longtime health care attorney who has defended clients in front of licensing boards for decades, told IndyStar licensure actions like this can have a "chilling effect" on how professionals share information.
One outcome will be "a greater tendency to over-report out of an abundance of caution to the authorities," he said, which can lead to "extensive" investigations.

"It just takes a lot of time and expense and it diverts providers from their mission of providing care," Jose said. He declined to comment specifically on the complaint against Bernard.

"Today is a difficult day to be a physician in the state," said Dr. Katie McHugh, an obstetrician-gynecologist who provides abortions and is a fellow with the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

But she also said what happened to Bernard isn't going to stop her from being an advocate for reproductive health care.
"This is an obligation of our profession," she said. "We are compelled to share our experiences, our interactions with people."

The board has 90 days to finalize its decision. From there, either side can appeal in Marion Superior Court within 30 days.

[Dill]

(05-27-2023, 02:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: Update on the charges against the doctor:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/2023/05/26/doctors-react-indiana-abortion-case-caitlin-bernard-reprimand/70261267007/

So the doctor is charged with revealing information she did not actually reveal, 

but which was forced into public domain in consequence of her prosecution? 

And then she's nailed with a State Board reprimand and fine for their violation of patients rights?  Neat.

[*pally*]

for some women, pregnancy is a death sentence even Olympians

The U.S. Olympic track star Tori Bowie died during childbirth in May, according to an autopsy report shared with The New York Times. The autopsy lists respiratory distress and eclampsia as possible complications.https://t.co/x0SPBzPkA0

— The New York Times (@nytimes) June 13, 2023

[BFritz21]

(06-13-2023, 01:15 PM)pally Wrote: for some women, pregnancy is a death sentence even Olympians

The U.S. Olympic track star Tori Bowie died during childbirth in May, according to an autopsy report shared with The New York Times. The autopsy lists respiratory distress and eclampsia as possible complications.https://t.co/x0SPBzPkA0

— The New York Times (@nytimes) June 13, 2023

She had medical complications and died at home alone when she was 8 months pregnant.

[*pally*]

(06-13-2023, 02:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: She had medical complications and died at home alone when she was 8 months pregnant.

Right...complications due to being pregnant.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[BFritz21]

(06-13-2023, 02:22 PM)pally Wrote: Right...complications due to being pregnant.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Did she want an abortion and was denied?

[*pally*]

(06-13-2023, 02:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Did she want an abortion and was denied?

Pro birth people act like pregnancy is a benign condition when in fact women die or are permanently injured because of it.

There is only 1 cure for pre-eclampsia and that is delivery regardless of gestational age of the fetus.  In Florida, for that to happen the woman has to be literally on her death bed at which point there is no guarantee she would survive healthily or in fact even survive.

Legislators shouldn't get to decide what is a medical emergergent or life threatening situation in pregnancy...doctors dshould but in Florida, Texas, and other states they wrote these 6 week laws so broadly that doctors can't prevent a guaranteed emergent situation

[*michaelsean*]

(06-13-2023, 03:26 PM)pally Wrote: Pro birth people act like pregnancy is a benign condition when in fact women die or are permanently injured because of it.

There is only 1 cure for pre-eclampsia and that is delivery regardless of gestational age of the fetus.  In Florida, for that to happen the woman has to be literally on her death bed at which point there is no guarantee she would survive healthily or in fact even survive.

Legislators shouldn't get to decide what is a medical emergergent or life threatening situation in pregnancy...doctors dshould but in Florida, Texas, and other states they wrote these 6 week laws so broadly that doctors can't prevent a guaranteed emergent situation

I guess not everyone is allowed to self-identify.