(11-08-2023, 01:06 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am open to conversation, but the SC over ruled Roe vs. wade. The SC decision sent the abortion debate back to the state level. Today, Ohio voted to allow abortions. This is exactly what the SC allowed each state to do, enact their state legislation to make their own abortion laws.
As for the future of Ohio and other stated, the terms of when abortion shall be allowed need to be determined. I live in Fl. so I do not get a vote in Ohio, but I hope all states (they won't) enact legislation that allows for abortion exceptions for rape or a no brainer for medical emergencies for mother or baby.
I also hope states determine (through scientific studies) when a fetus becomes a living creature who feels pain. If it 12 weeks or 15 weeks or whatever the number is, a abortion ban unless for medical emergencies. A rape victim has plenty of time within the 3 to 4 month window to abort the baby.
It is a good read. It appears Ohio just passed an abortion amendment that removes previous Ohio law of 20 weeks for abortion and also allows for abortion after birth. I pray this amendment is step one and parameters are set for late term abortions.
Pregnancy isn't viable until after 21 weeks (In most cases 25 weeks), so as we discussed earlier (And you agreed) if you have a baby that cannot survive on its own, then it needs to immediately be aborted. There is no reason to wait until the baby dies and the mother's blood becomes septic causing her to fight for her life.
Ohioans defeated this by almost a 20-point margin and it's b/c the GOP went too extreme asking for a 6-week ban without exceptions. Also, FYI a rape victim most likely is in denial, b/c of the trauma she's endured, until she starts showing and then it becomes real to her. So to say 12-15 weeks is plenty of time for a rape victim to decide is absurd.
The margin by which the GOP extremist agenda was defeated should be a "canary in the coal mine" for the GOP in 2024 b/c this is the horse the DNC will ride on to victory.
(11-08-2023, 01:55 AM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Pregnancy isn't viable until after 21 weeks (In most cases 25 weeks), so as we discussed earlier (And you agreed) if you have a baby that cannot survive on its own, then it needs to immediately be aborted. There is no reason to wait until the baby dies and the mother's blood becomes septic causing her to fight for her life.
Ohioans defeated this by almost a 20-point margin and it's b/c the GOP went too extreme asking for a 6-week ban without exceptions. Also, FYI a rape victim most likely is in denial until she starts showing and then it becomes real to her. So to say 12-15 weeks is plenty of time for a rape victim to decide is ridiculous.
The margin by which the GOP extremist agenda was defeated should be a "canary in the coal mine" for the GOP in 2024 b/c this is the horse the DNC will rideon to victory.
The DNC had a great night. No doubt about it. As far as the 12 or 15 week number, 15 weeks seem to be the majority over 60% feel is the time the baby feels pain. Also, just a FYI if a rape victim reports the rape immediately, I am pretty sure she can receive drugs to abort a potential pregnancy.
I am not sure I follow your 21 or 25 week scenario. I already stated in my opinion an abortion can be performed up until birth in the case of a medical emergency, just not a rape.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(11-08-2023, 02:12 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The DNC had a great night. No doubt about it. As far as the 12 or 15 week number, 15 weeks seem to be the majority over 60% feel is the time the baby feels pain. Also, just a FYI if a rape victim reports the rape immediately, I am pretty sure she can receive drugs to abort a potential pregnancy.
I am not sure I follow your 21 or 25 week scenario. I already stated in my opinion an abortion can be performed up until birth in the case of a medical emergency, just not a rape.
A fetus isn't viable until 21-25 weeks, meaning it cannot survive outside the womb. So let's say a mother's water breaks at 19 weeks, and the baby cannot survive without the protective sac, but it's still alive for the time being--- but not for long maybe a week . The baby will eventually die before it gets to 21-25 weeks (Viability), so if made to keep the fetus inside the womb until the baby dies, the mother will in most cases become septic. At this point, the mother's life is in grave danger. So a no-exception provision, as the GOP extremist agenda pushed, could cause both the death of the mother and the fetus. As soon as the OBGYN discovers the mother cannot support the fetus until viability, it needs to be aborted immediately, or else you're planning two funerals.
Bottom line: Let the licensed medical physicians (OBGYNs) do their damn job, and politicians need to stay out of the way.
FYI, the majority of rape victims do not immediately report the assault. Why, it's b/c most are in denial of the trauma they just endured and don't want to re-live the assault.
(11-08-2023, 02:12 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The DNC had a great night. No doubt about it. As far as the 12 or 15 week number, 15 weeks seem to be the majority over 60% feel is the time the baby feels pain. Also, just a FYI if a rape victim reports the rape immediately, I am pretty sure she can receive drugs to abort a potential pregnancy.
I am not sure I follow your 21 or 25 week scenario. I already stated in my opinion an abortion can be performed up until birth in the case of a medical emergency, just not a rape.
So you're saying RAPE is OK? Boy, that's some Handmaide's tail BS right there. WTF!!!
I've read on extreme GOP right-wing websites this before, and it's a NEO-NAZI strategy to make sure white women are having white babies. In Right Wing extremist circles it's known as, “Rapekrieg” targeting white women to boost America’s Caucasian population. An ex-Marine with ties to Right-wing extremist NEO-NAZI groups was just arrested for rape in Colorado espousing this deranged manifesto.
Here's the article: But for anyone who can't get to the article just Google: RAPEKRIEG
(11-08-2023, 01:06 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am open to conversation, but the SC over ruled Roe vs. wade. The SC decision sent the abortion debate back to the state level. Today, Ohio voted to allow abortions. This is exactly what the SC allowed each state to do, enact their state legislation to make their own abortion laws.
As for the future of Ohio and other stated, the terms of when abortion shall be allowed need to be determined. I live in Fl. so I do not get a vote in Ohio, but I hope all states (they won't) enact legislation that allows for abortion exceptions for rape or a no brainer for medical emergencies for mother or baby.
I also hope states determine (through scientific studies) when a fetus becomes a living creature who feels pain. If it 12 weeks or 15 weeks or whatever the number is, a abortion ban unless for medical emergencies. A rape victim has plenty of time within the 3 to 4 month window to abort the baby.
It is a good read. It appears Ohio just passed an abortion amendment that removes previous Ohio law of 20 weeks for abortion and also allows for abortion after birth. I pray this amendment is step one and parameters are set for late term abortions.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ABORTION AFTER BIRTH!!!!!!!
The idea of when a fetus becomes a person is not a scientific question and trying to frame it that way just muddies the waters. Personhood is a philosophical question with no firm answer. What has a firm answer? That the pregnant individual is a person and has a right to bodily autonomy. With no clearly defined answer as to the status of the fetus in regard to personhood, we should defer to the known person with rights because removing their rights without due process is not something the state should be doing.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(11-08-2023, 02:46 AM)pally Wrote: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ABORTION AFTER BIRTH!!!!!!!
In a very early season of the show South Park (The title of the episode is "Cartman's Mom is Still a Dirty S###"), the mother of a character named Cartman is talking to a doctor/healthcare worker and says she just doesn't feel fit to raise a child in today's screwy world. The worker asks her what the date of conception was and she said "8 years ago," and the worker says they refer to that as the "40th trimester," and that's a little late to abort a fetus. The mother's response is "Well, I think you need to keep your laws off of my body."
It's meant to be a parody, but here we have someone actually talking about abortion after birth, as if that is a thing that is even possible, let alone whether it has ever been done.
It's crazy how deep the GOP has their claws dug into people's minds.
(11-08-2023, 12:31 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Seems to me like liberal policies outperform liberal politicians, and conservative politicians outperform conservative policies.
We will watch a bunch of red states vote to protect abortion rights and then we will watch the guy who appointed 3 SC justices for the purpose of putting said states in that situation win those very same states by 10+ points and/or possibly win back the white house and enact a nation-wide ban. I'd say it boggles the mind, but it's too consistent to surprise me.
I'm sure liberal podcasters and streamers are already pulling in the revenue talking about how Ohio voting yes on 1 and 2 proves a blue wave is coming. Spoiler alert...it ain't.
Yep. I'd still give Ohio a 95% chance of going for Trump in 2024. Sherrod Brown is the Senator up for re-election in 2024, and I give him a 60% chance to retain his seat. If he were up for re-election in 2022 or 2026 I'd give him 90% odds, as Ohioans seem to like him. Problem is, this will be the first time since 2012 that his re-election is falling on a presidential election year. He did not have to contend with the record turnouts of 2016 and 2020. There's a decent chance that the presidential election will bring his vote closer to the presidential tally, which will be bad for Brown.
Anti Choicers are already hard at work ranting & raging over Ohio Issue 1 passing.
Anti choicers can rage all they want about women having rights & freedoms, but Ohioans have spoken and abortion is now a protected right in the Ohio constitution. https://t.co/um3yMRPlLfpic.twitter.com/laRjJysLPv
(11-08-2023, 02:44 AM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote:
So you're saying RAPE is OK? Boy, that's some Handmaide's tail BS right there. WTF!!!
I've read on extreme GOP right-wing websites this before, and it's a NEO-NAZI strategy to make sure white women are having white babies. In Right Wing extremist circles it's known as, “Rapekrieg” targeting white women to boost America’s Caucasian population. An ex-Marine with ties to Right-wing extremist NEO-NAZI groups was just arrested for rape in Colorado espousing this deranged manifesto.
Here's the article: But for anyone who can't get to the article just Google: RAPEKRIEG
Please show anywhere I stated rape was OK. Why would I say make rape an exemption in the first 12 to 15 weeks? Please spare us your rants and lies in the future.
You remind me if the lib voter yesterday in Virginia who attacked a poll worker, completely unhinged and filled with hate.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(11-08-2023, 02:46 AM)pally Wrote: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ABORTION AFTER BIRTH!!!!!!!
You do realize Virginia and now Ohio can choose to kill babies in the birthing room AFTER BIRTH. I provided the article which you obviously failed to read, call it what you want but yes they can kill a newborn after birth, no laws to protect the babies as written today in Virginia nor Ohio.
Here is an exert from this article on aborted deaths of babies after birth.
The details of the 143 cases in the CDC report are sparse. The report was generated using death certificates, which included more than 40 terms for describing the cause. Here’s what we do know: 97 reportedly involved a maternal complication or a congenital anomaly. About 42 percent of the deaths occurred within an hour of birth, 54 percent occurred between one and 23 hours after birth, and about 4 percent of the deaths occurred a day after birth.
(11-08-2023, 08:35 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The idea of when a fetus becomes a person is not a scientific question and trying to frame it that way just muddies the waters. Personhood is a philosophical question with no firm answer. What has a firm answer? That the pregnant individual is a person and has a right to bodily autonomy. With no clearly defined answer as to the status of the fetus in regard to personhood, we should defer to the known person with rights because removing their rights without due process is not something the state should be doing.
That is very convenient answer to give the mother 100% power and authority to kill a baby that can indeed live outside the womb. It appears in your world you feel the other should have the sole authority to kill a living human being without exception.
Who fights for the baby? Certainly not people like you. Abortion is a complex issue, mothers should have rights. But there comes a point in time the baby should have equal rights and someone needs to make sure that happens.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
There are plenty of laws governing the deliberate killing of post birth humans. ITS CALLED MURDER!!!!
Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by means other than birth. A birthed child cannot be aborted
There is zero evidence that any infant referred to in that article were murdered.
That "post birth abortion" lie is right up there with the lies about 40 week pregnancy abortions.
To me, it's more about choice. And to me it is a person, but, women want the choice regardless. I wish the bill here in Ohio addressed late term abortions, but it didn't. We went from too far on one end to too far on the other. But the people chose, I can accept that. .
(11-08-2023, 01:21 PM)Goalpost Wrote: To me, it's more about choice. And to me it is a person, but, women want the choice regardless. I wish the bill here in Ohio addressed late term abortions, but it didn't. We went from too far on one end to too far on the other. But the people chose, I can accept that. .
Issue 1 limits post-viability abortions to the health of the mother or fetus. It is not abortion on demand
(11-08-2023, 01:12 PM)pally Wrote: There are plenty of laws governing the deliberate killing of post birth humans. ITS CALLED MURDER!!!!
Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by means other than birth. A birthed child cannot be aborted
There is zero evidence that any infant referred to in that article were murdered.
That "post birth abortion" lie is right up there with the lies about 40 week pregnancy abortions.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
I guess you failed to read the articles I provided. Yes, babies being aborted late term were actually born alive, then termed/killed later.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(11-08-2023, 12:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: That is very convenient answer to give the mother 100% power and authority to kill a baby that can indeed live outside the womb. It appears in your world you feel the other should have the sole authority to kill a living human being without exception.
Who fights for the baby? Certainly not people like you. Abortion is a complex issue, mothers should have rights. But there comes a point in time the baby should have equal rights and someone needs to make sure that happens.
People like me fight for that baby's rights
1) to be born into a loving caring home
2) to live in a safe healthy house
3) to have easy access to healthy, affordable food
4) to have affordable access to all levels of healthcare...medical, dental, vision, and mental
5) to have access to a quality public education wherever they live
6) to be able to go out into public without worrying that some idiot exercising his 2nd amendments rights is going to shoot them
7) to be able to live and go to school without being bullied for how they look, for being LGBTQ, for their beliefs
8) to be able to live in a world with clean air and water with respect for the environment
9) to be able to grow up to be a happy, healthy self supporting contributing member of society who cares for the people and environment around them
You people fight for a child's right to just be born. We fight for that child to actually live and not simply exist
(11-08-2023, 01:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I guess you failed to read the articles I provided. Yes, babies being aborted late term were actually born alive, then termed/killed later.
from your article
Quote:We found that there’s some evidence suggesting that infants occasionally survive abortion attempts, but reports are rare. And there’s even less hard evidence to suggest that, when infants do survive those attempts, they’re viable but killed by medical professionals or allowed to die.
(11-08-2023, 02:12 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I already stated, in my opinion, an abortion can be performed up until birth in the case of a medical emergency,just not a rape.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID.
So you think a rape victim should be forced to have the baby? Saving one life to ruin another, and then what happens to the baby after it's born? Most likely it ends up in a welfare social service situation, which you're against. Folks like you want a right to birth, but not a right to life. Did you think the 10-yr old who was raped in Ohio, and couldn't get an abortion so her parent took her to Indiana, should have not been allowed to abort the fetus of her attacker? Do you think the OBGYN in Indiana and her physician in Ohio should have been prosecuted for performing the abortion?
I know what you're really about and it's the extreme right-wing Neo-Nazi theory of RAPEKRIEG. White men engaging in the assault and rape of white women to populate the caucasian race. A Neo-Nazi GOP extremist Trump supporter in Colorado is on trial, and when they searched his house they found the RAPEKRIEG manifesto.
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