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(05-03-2022, 08:58 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I thought we called people what they want to be called.
When the anti-choice movement shows me it is actually about being pro-life, then I will call it that. I call a trans woman a woman because she presents herself as a woman. I call the anti-choice movement anti-choice instead of pro-life because it is about restricting choice and not at all about perpetuating life.
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(05-03-2022, 09:05 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Sure did. It’s what Brad responded to. Was just afraid you missed it.
Well anyone who doesn't talk about republicans being obsessed with guns and Jaysus and welfare and treating white men as an endangered species is just burying the lead.
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(05-03-2022, 09:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He does? Usually a dismissive take on republicans involves a few key obsessions like guns and welfare queens, too.
Yup. I have several family members, specifically in SWPA, that hold abortion as their threshold issue.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
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(05-03-2022, 09:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yup. I have several family members, specifically in SWPA, that hold abortion as their threshold issue.
And they don't care at all about the border or guns or any of the other right wing issues? Take my guns, leave the border open, burn the bible, just take away abortion? It's possible, I've just never met people in my travels near and far that are single-issue abortion voters.
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(05-03-2022, 08:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, let's rid ourselves of anecdotal evidence and turn to something with a little bit of scientific rigor: https://news.gallup.com/poll/313316/one-four-americans-consider-abortion-key-voting-issue.aspx
![[Image: utals_-8qe6z0jh1ru4g3q.png]](https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/utals_-8qe6z0jh1ru4g3q.png)
So while I may be underestimating the degree to which this occurs towards Democrats, it is the Republican/anti-choice voters that are more likely to see it as a "must."
For the record, single-issue voters on either side just piss me off. But that's me.
I have never seen a I vote pro choice bumper sticker. I’ve only ever seen people worried about controlling someone else’s body rocking the I vote pro life bumper stickers.
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(05-03-2022, 09:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: And they don't care at all about the border or guns or any of the other right wing issues? Take my guns, leave the border open, burn the bible, just take away abortion? It's possible, I've just never met people in my travels near and far that are single-issue abortion voters.
Those aren't issues they really care about. I mean, hey, the data is right there. 30% of anti-choice voters would not vote for a candidate that was not anti-choice.
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(05-03-2022, 09:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: When the anti-choice movement shows me it is actually about being pro-life, then I will call it that. I call a trans woman a woman because she presents herself as a woman. I call the anti-choice movement anti-choice instead of pro-life because it is about restricting choice and not at all about perpetuating life.
Oh so it’s based on individual opinion. That’s certainly not how it’s presented.
What is presenting as a woman? Would you object to me refusing to call someone a woman because they don’t present as a woman in my opinion?
Explain why pro life people aren’t about perpetuating life. I wasn’t aware they are a homogenous group. And of course you know the obvious question I’m going to ask about choice right?
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Omg omg omg this is so bad, democrats want to make sure people know the truth.
Meanwhile in reality…
Conservative stolen Supreme Court majority is working to take away rights.
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(05-03-2022, 09:11 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I have never seen a I vote pro choice bumper sticker. I’ve only ever seen people worried about controlling someone else’s body rocking the I vote pro life bumper stickers.
If they are worried about controlling a woman’s body, what do all of their other women body controller stickers say?
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(05-03-2022, 09:17 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Omg omg omg this is so bad, democrats want to make sure people know the truth.
Meanwhile in reality…
Conservative stolen Supreme Court majority is taking away rights.
They will know the actual truth when the SC releases its decisions. It may be this and it may not.
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(05-03-2022, 09:16 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Oh so it’s based on individual opinion. That’s certainly not how it’s presented.
What is presenting as a woman? Would you object to me refusing to call someone a woman because they don’t present as a woman in my opinion?
I know that the right is having a good time trying to avoid the real topics at hand, so I get what you're doing here. This isn't a thread about gender identity.
(05-03-2022, 09:16 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Explain why pro life people aren’t about perpetuating life. I wasn’t aware they are a homogenous group. And of course you know the obvious question I’m going to ask about choice right?
I didn't say anything about anti-choice people. I specifically refer to the movement. And no, I don't know the "obvious question." Unless it's the tired one about the choice of the unborn, which doesn't matter since they are not people entitled to rights and certainly not the right to someone else's bodily autonomy.
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(05-03-2022, 09:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: If they are worried about controlling a woman’s body, what do all of their other women body controller stickers say?
trump 2024
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(05-03-2022, 09:17 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Omg omg omg this is so bad, democrats want to make sure people know the truth.
Meanwhile in reality…
Conservative stolen Supreme Court majority is working to take away rights.
How was it stolen? That’s dangerous insurrectionist rhetoric and a threat to democracy, I’ve been told.
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(05-03-2022, 09:24 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: How was it stolen? That’s dangerous insurrectionist rhetoric and a threat to democracy, I’ve been told.
Crooked republican leadership gaming the system and denying a dually elected president the ability to fill a supreme court vacancy. Then forcing through unqualified candidates picked by a man who needed the help of russian propaganda to win an election that saw him lose the popular vote. Meaning the majority of Americans did not want him. And here we are with a minority rule supreme court forcing their religious beliefs on us.
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(05-03-2022, 09:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Those aren't issues they really care about. I mean, hey, the data is right there. 30% of anti-choice voters would not vote for a candidate that was not anti-choice.
Interesting. My wife's family is all evangelical types and it's been all CRT and the border and guns and Sandy Hook being a false flag and sex traffickers everywhere, as of late. I mean, they're pro life as they'd put it, but I've just never come across anyone who has a typical bi partisan stance on abortion that doesn't come with a bunch of the other typical talking points.
I guess I'm just used to people getting the whole "what do I believe" checklist for their party down. Maybe it's more like "I'm pro life...what else is this party for? Well, those have to be good too, I guess if they're the only party that is pro-life."
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(05-03-2022, 09:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I know that the right is having a good time trying to avoid the real topics at hand, so I get what you're doing here. This isn't a thread about gender identity.
I didn't say anything about anti-choice people. I specifically refer to the movement. And no, I don't know the "obvious question." Unless it's the tired one about the choice of the unborn, which doesn't matter since they are not people entitled to rights and certainly not the right to someone else's bodily autonomy.
Not trying to avoid anything. You seem to be though. Oh and maybe read my comment about an hour ago. #68
And no you missed the obvious question. Just apply the same logic to choice as you do to life.
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(05-03-2022, 06:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I disagree. Criminalizing abortion is a restriction of liberties of people with untureses. I think its link to constitutional rights is as strong as the right to marriage is. I agree that same-sex marriage is not at risk, but that is more about there not being as much of a culture war surrounding it.
You can think that, but you'd be hard pressed to make the argument. Abortion being considered a right under the 14th is, as I've said in the past, a tenuous link. While I don't disagree with the concept it's not easily argued and it definitely isn't a neat fit. Contrast that with the right for two adults to marry the human being of their choice. Marriage is a civil institution with numerous civil benefits. Denying that to one group of people while allowing it for another is unconstitutional in a very black and white sense based on the concept of equal protection under the law. You, and others, can view the rights as equally important or strong, but the pro arguments for both being a right do not carry equal weight, and it's not even close.
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(05-03-2022, 09:24 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: trump 2024
That was pretty clever. Just not a fan of people deciding what a person’s motivation is.
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(05-03-2022, 09:24 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: How was it stolen? That’s dangerous insurrectionist rhetoric and a threat to democracy, I’ve been told.
2/10; the Russian judges gave it a 7/10 at least. Bumped up the average.
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(05-03-2022, 08:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: If settled law is no longer settled law buckle up because things are about to get even bumpier.
I've seen this type of statement a lot, and it's interesting to me as it's such a poorly constructed argument. Plessy v. Ferguson and Dredd Scott v. Sandford were "settled law" at one time. Either you allow for precedent to change or you do not. You don't get to shout "settled law" only when the decision goes a way you disagree with.
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