Rush Limbaugh has died at 70

[*Nately120*]

(02-17-2021, 07:54 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Honestly, I assumed it was in the 80's.  I can't see that flying anytime after that, even for a Limbaugh type.  I've never understood homophobia and how rampantly some people hate homosexuals.

EDIT: 90's surprises me.  That was probably the most egalitarian decade this country has ever seen.

The 80s...when politics and religion joined together to tell us that unions were killing us and AIDS was ok.  Also, Culture Club.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-17-2021, 08:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The 80s...when politics and religion joined together to tell us that unions were killing us and AIDS was ok.  Also, Culture Club.

And heavy metal music was satanic.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-17-2021, 07:54 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Honestly, I assumed it was in the 80's.  I can't see that flying anytime after that, even for a Limbaugh type.  I've never understood homophobia and how rampantly some people hate homosexuals.

EDIT: 90's surprises me. That was probably the most egalitarian decade this country has ever seen.

I thought you were a fascist now?

[Belsnickel]

(02-17-2021, 07:54 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Honestly, I assumed it was in the 80's.  I can't see that flying anytime after that, even for a Limbaugh type.  I've never understood homophobia and how rampantly some people hate homosexuals.

EDIT: 90's surprises me. That was probably the most egalitarian decade this country has ever seen.

It was the '80s. Reading through articles where they were talking about it in the late '90s made it seem like it went on that far, but apparently 1990 was when he apologized for it. This is why my post changed like it did.

[BengalHawk62]

Dying gives no one the virtue they lacked when they were alive…

[samhain]

(02-17-2021, 04:26 PM)Benton Wrote: I listened and watched his show in the 90s. He was funny and made a good point. I do t know if he was trying to stay relevant or just got sour as he aged, but he created a lot of hate towards the end. I dont wish his passing, but I am glad there's less vitriol and anger out there.

I remember thinking he was funny back in the 90's.  To be fair, I was probably 12 when I was watching, but he made me laugh.  Used to watch Alex Jones on public access after work in the early aughts, as well, before he went for the low-hanging fruit on the far-right.  

Both guys got much more revolting as they gained popularity, but at least Rush seemed like he was, well, not completely insane.  Rush was pure genius, really.  Between him and Evangelical Christianity, he took blue collar white America and found a way to get them so pissed at non-white and poor people that they'd side with whoever the right trotted out regardless of their platform.  He got them, at a time when the rust belt was dying, to blame it on gays, blacks, and foreigners rather than the people closing the factories. It was a master stroke, regardless of the ethical implications.  

RIP to the father of modern white grievance politics.  We wouldn't be what we are without him today.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-17-2021, 09:42 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Dying gives no one the virtue they lacked when they were alive…

It did for Kennedies.

[BrownAssClown]

Eh....Oh well....I'm sure there are 100 overweight, cigar-chopping blowhards already lined up to take his spot.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-17-2021, 08:31 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I thought you were a fascist now?

Apparently I'm a gay friendly fascist. 

(02-17-2021, 08:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It was the '80s. Reading through articles where they were talking about it in the late '90s made it seem like it went on that far, but apparently 1990 was when he apologized for it. This is why my post changed like it did.

Yeah, that makes more sense.  I can see that sailing in the 80's but the 90's would have surprised me.  

(02-17-2021, 09:42 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Dying gives no one the virtue they lacked when they were alive…

Agreed. 

(02-17-2021, 10:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It did for Kennedies.

Also agreed, excellent point!

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-17-2021, 10:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It did for Kennedies.

(02-18-2021, 01:45 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Also agreed, excellent point!

If we're talking media? Sure. If we're talking average citizen? Not even close.

[Belsnickel]

(02-18-2021, 02:20 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: If we're talking media? Sure. If we're talking average citizen? Not even close.

I would disagree. The Kennedy family is much revered in liberal circles even though the majority of them were entitled pieces of shit and the ones that weren't, that actually put the real work in, were slimy pieces of shit.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-18-2021, 08:00 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I would disagree. The Kennedy family is much revered in liberal circles even though the majority of them were entitled pieces of shit and the ones that weren't, that actually put the real work in, were slimy pieces of shit.

Well, I don't personally know anyone that gives a crap about them at all. Plus their latest project got voted out, didn't he?

[*Nately120*]

(02-17-2021, 10:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It did for Kennedies.

Ida know...JFK Jr. being a key player in the Qanon doctrine may finally sink that family.  Was Bobby Kennedy an ok guy?  He seemed like he may have been OK.  That sister that got lobotomized was probably Ok, too.

[Dill]

(02-17-2021, 05:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Honestly, I didn't really spend much energy thinking about Limbaugh. He was a garbage human being who did more to divide this country than many people realize. He wasn't worth my energy to think about most of the time.

(02-17-2021, 05:52 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well that’s really how it should have been for people who didn’t like him. There are people I really don’t like so I pay zero attention to them. I will mostly be ambivalent when they die.

I disliked him very much, but I paid attention to him just as I pay attention to Laura and Sean--they all have played an important role in dividing the U.S. polity, and it matters how they did/do it. We can't understand the current political division without listening to them.

Last night MSNBC's Joy Reid some very substantive points about his influence on the current Republican Party, e.g., on his "Operation Chaos" and ability to "weaponize white grievance."
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/watch/joy-reid-rush-limbaugh-hardened-rural-white-listeners-and-weaponized-white-male-grievance-101201477663

Before Rush, the Right and conservatives were driven by conservative principles as articulated by the Moral Majority, and to them it mattered whether political leaders were sleazeballs who cheated on their wives and lied everyday to their families business partners and used racist/sexist language.

It was Rush who, over two decades, managed to push all that "crap" aside and elevate ability to "troll the libs," via personal and racist attack language, into a serious criterion for judging candidates. He "normalized" political trollspeak. He did for popular right wing culture what Gingrich did for the House.

And he was a mover and shaker in GOP politics. It was Rush above all who in 2016 articulated for his audience why Trump should be the "conservative" choice over the actually conservative Cruz.

The latter point was echoed by conservative commentators like Tucker Carlson on Harris Faulkner's program yesterday, which was an hour long tribute to Rush.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-18-2021, 02:43 PM)Dill Wrote: I disliked him very much, but I paid attention to him just as I pay attention to Laura and Sean--they all have played an important role in dividing the U.S. polity, and it matters how they did/do it. We can't understand the current political division without listening to them.

Last night MSNBC's Joy Reid some very substantive points about his influence on the current Republican Party, e.g., on his "Operation Chaos" and ability to "weaponize white grievance."
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/watch/joy-reid-rush-limbaugh-hardened-rural-white-listeners-and-weaponized-white-male-grievance-101201477663

Before Rush, the Right and conservatives were driven by conservative principles as articulated by the Moral Majority, and to them it mattered whether political leaders were sleazeballs who cheated on their wives and lied everyday to their families business partners and used racist/sexist language.

It was Rush who, over two decades, managed to push all that "crap" aside and elevate ability to "troll the libs," via personal and racist attack language, into a serious criterion for judging candidates. He "normalized" political trollspeak. He did for popular right wing culture what Gingrich did for the House.

And he was a mover and shaker in GOP politics. It was Rush above all who in 2016 articulated for his audience why Trump should be the "conservative" choice over the actually conservative Cruz.

The latter point was echoed by conservative commentators like Tucker Carlson on Harris Faulkner's program yesterday, which was an hour long tribute to Rush.

I agree with much of your post.  I do have to say that Joy Reid, a known homophobe, has some gall to call anyone out for hateful rhetoric.

[Dill]

(02-18-2021, 03:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I agree with much of your post.  I do have to say that Joy Reid, a known homophobe, has some gall to call anyone out for hateful rhetoric.

Thanks for the response and the valid point.

I see some distance between Reid's offenses and Rush's, especially on these points:

1. Reid's blog posts from over a decade ago didn't shift a large segment of national political discourse away from existing norms of civility. And

2. She has apologized profusely for her appeal to negative stereotypes, claimed to have evolved, and

3. It appears the apology was sincere, as people don't tune in to her show to enjoy daily vilification of stereotypes, as they did Rush's show.

I.e., looks like she wants to maintain those norms of civility that she and Rush violated.

That said, I'd find it ok if Rush "called out" someone for hateful rhetoric.

If the accusation were accurate, true, then Rush's double standard could be no defense for the guilty party.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-18-2021, 02:43 PM)Dill Wrote: I disliked him very much, but I paid attention to him just as I pay attention to Laura and Sean--they all have played an important role in dividing the U.S. polity, and it matters how they did/do it. We can't understand the current political division without listening to them.

Last night MSNBC's Joy Reid some very substantive points about his influence on the current Republican Party, e.g., on his "Operation Chaos" and ability to "weaponize white grievance."
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/watch/joy-reid-rush-limbaugh-hardened-rural-white-listeners-and-weaponized-white-male-grievance-101201477663

Before Rush, the Right and conservatives were driven by conservative principles as articulated by the Moral Majority, and to them it mattered whether political leaders were sleazeballs who cheated on their wives and lied everyday to their families business partners and used racist/sexist language.

It was Rush who, over two decades, managed to push all that "crap" aside and elevate ability to "troll the libs," via personal and racist attack language, into a serious criterion for judging candidates. He "normalized" political trollspeak. He did for popular right wing culture what Gingrich did for the House.

And he was a mover and shaker in GOP politics. It was Rush above all who in 2016 articulated for his audience why Trump should be the "conservative" choice over the actually conservative Cruz.

The latter point was echoed by conservative commentators like Tucker Carlson on Harris Faulkner's program yesterday, which was an hour long tribute to Rush.

Well then kudos to Rush because the lovable losers hadn’t had a speaker of the house for something like forty years.

And are we fans of the moral majority now?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-18-2021, 03:26 PM)Dill Wrote: Thanks for the response and the valid point.

I see some distance between Reid's offenses and Rush's, especially on these points:

1. Reid's blog posts from over a decade ago didn't shift a large segment of national political discourse away from existing norms of civility. And

I never compared them in scope.  I pointed out that she lives in a glass house in this regard.

Quote:2. She has apologized profusely for her appeal to negative stereotypes, claimed to have evolved, and

3. It appears the apology was sincere, as people don't tune in to her show to enjoy daily vilification of stereotypes, as they did Rush's show.

I.e., looks like she wants to maintain those norms of civility that she and Rush violated.

Can't agree with either of these points at all.  When the story first broke she blatantly lied and claimed she was hacked, that she was not the person who had made those posts. 

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/24/msnbcs-joy-reid-claims-her-website-was-hacked-and-bigoted-anti-lgbt-content-added-a-bizarre-story-liberal-outlets-ignore/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/27/17286392/joy-reid-msnbc-lgbtq-gay-hack

She even said the FBI was investigating this "hacking".  

https://money.cnn.com/2018/04/26/media/joy-reid-hacking-fbi-investigation/index.html?iid=EL

She only apologized once this was thoroughly debunked.  This is not the action of a person who is sincerely apologetic.  She got a pass, but she damn sure didn't deserve one.

Quote:That said, I'd find it ok if Rush "called out" someone for hateful rhetoric.

If the accusation were accurate, true, then Rush's double standard could be no defense for the guilty party.

I'd make the exact same point if Rush did it, that he's a massive hypocrite for doing so.  Honestly my main point in bringing this up is to remind people that Reid is a homophobe and a liar, by her own admission.  I dislike double standards in every instance.  

[Dill]

(02-18-2021, 03:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: She only apologized once this was thoroughly debunked.  This is not the action of a person who is sincerely apologetic.  She got a pass, but she damn sure didn't deserve one.

I'd make the exact same point if Rush did it, that he's a massive hypocrite for doing so.  Honestly my main point in bringing this up is to remind people that Reid is a homophobe and a liar, by her own admission.  I dislike double standards in every instance.  

I don't recall how all that turned out. She admitted she was a "liar"?

I do notice that when I watch her show, she doesn't put that kind of rhetoric front and center. (Except for her "When the Muslims. . . ." statement.)

If she did it before, sincere or not, she has stopped it now.  If it re-appears, she will not have a show on MSNBC.  Pretty sure she knows this.

We are talking about Rush now because because his appeal was that he didn't stop and generally didn't apologize.

And still had a show.

[Dill]

(02-18-2021, 03:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well then kudos to Rush because the lovable losers hadn’t had a speaker of the house for something like forty years.

And are we fans of the moral majority now?

Don't know about "we," but I can prefer worse over worst.

Traditional conservatism is defensible on many points, e.g., respect for civility, rule of law, and honesty.