Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases

[Belsnickel]

Trump has threatened to veto such a measure, but the Senate has passed the legislation with a veto-proof majority.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/23/senate-defense-bill-ndaa-bases-trump-380362

Quote:The Senate overwhelmingly passed its $741 billion defense policy legislation on Thursday, with the Republican-led body defying a threat from President Donald Trump to veto legislation that would force the removal of Confederate names from Army bases.

Senators approved the National Defense Authorization Act in a 86-14 blowout. Both the House and Senate have passed bills this week with majorities large enough to overcome a veto from Trump.

Senate and House Armed Services Committee leaders will soon begin negotiations to hammer out the differences in their competing bills.


The measure would kick off a process forcing the Pentagon to scrub names, monuments and paraphernalia honoring the Confederacy and its leaders from military bases and assets over the next three years. The House defense bill passed Tuesday, would force the renaming of bases within a year.

The effort, sponsored by former presidential candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), comes amid protests over systemic racism and police brutality across the country. Ten Army bases are named for Confederate military leaders.

Trump has said his administration won't consider renaming bases — labeling it an attempt to rewrite U.S. history — contradicting Pentagon leaders who've said base names should be reviewed. The president has also warned he'd veto defense legislation that would rename bases.

But with similar renaming provisions in both bills, Trump is likely to be handed bipartisan defense legislation that forces the issue.

Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), whose state is home to three Army bases that bear the names of Confederates, defended the proposal on the Senate floor Wednesday. He argued the proposal was revised to accommodate both Republicans and Democrats and allow input from communities.

"Do you really expect us to believe that a society that continues to honor those who tried to destroy our country to save slavery will be serious about ending the racial disparities that exist today?" Kaine said.

The measure was adopted by voice vote during the Armed Services Committee markup last month, though not all senators agreed with the move. Senate Armed Services Chair Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) expressed consternation about the provision after its adoption, and argued local communities should have power to halt decisions to rename the federal installations.

Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), who opposed the provision in committee, filed an amendment that would have undone the provision. But the amendment was not granted a vote on the Senate floor.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-28-2020, 06:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Trump has threatened to veto such a measure, but the Senate has passed the legislation with a veto-proof majority.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/23/senate-defense-bill-ndaa-bases-trump-380362

He won't veto it.  They tied it to defense funding and Biden would make great political hay out of "Trump vetoing money for our troops".  I don't really have a problem with the rename, although my sister was born at Fort Lee when my father was stationed there.  Of all the Confederate generals he's the only one I'd still recognize in this fashion.  He felt more loyalty to his state than the nation, which was not an uncommon sentiment back then.  Hell, it might not be such an uncommon sentiment right now.

[Belsnickel]

(07-28-2020, 07:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: He won't veto it.  They tied it to defense funding and Biden would make great political hay out of "Trump vetoing money for our troops".  I don't really have a problem with the rename, although my sister was born at Fort Lee when my father was stationed there.  Of all the Confederate generals he's the only one I'd still recognize in this fashion.  He felt more loyalty to his state than the nation, which was not an uncommon sentiment back then.  Hell, it might not be such an uncommon sentiment right now.

I admit nothing.

As for Lee, eh, I don't harbor much in the way of goodwill towards a man who saw slavery as good for black people and fought to preserve it. He also was a rather cruel slaveowner, intentionally breaking up families. His estate was one descended from George Washington due to his wife and some of the families he broke up had been together since Mount Vernon days. His army also enslaved free black people in the north and shipped them back south. The image of the honorable Lee is a creation of the Lost Cause movement.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-28-2020, 08:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I admit nothing.

As for Lee, eh, I don't harbor much in the way of goodwill towards a man who saw slavery as good for black people and fought to preserve it. He also was a rather cruel slaveowner, intentionally breaking up families. His estate was one descended from George Washington due to his wife and some of the families he broke up had been together since Mount Vernon days. His army also enslaved free black people in the north and shipped them back south. The image of the honorable Lee is a creation of the Lost Cause movement.

Ehhh.  I'll admit to not knowing a ton about him, all of that included.  I love studying history, but I've never been that into the history of my own country.  Prior to watching the John Adams HBO series I didn't have much interest in really studying the Revolution or the Framers.  Although i will admit that Christopher Hitchens got me interested their writings and those of Thomas Paine prior to that.

[*jason*]

(07-28-2020, 08:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I admit nothing.

As for Lee, eh, I don't harbor much in the way of goodwill towards a man who saw slavery as good for black people and fought to preserve it. He also was a rather cruel slaveowner, intentionally breaking up families. His estate was one descended from George Washington due to his wife and some of the families he broke up had been together since Mount Vernon days. His army also enslaved free black people in the north and shipped them back south. The image of the honorable Lee is a creation of the Lost Cause movement.

Isn't just about everyone who rises to that level of power sorta a dick though? I personally don't know of any benevolent generals. Killing and inflicting damage is kind of their thing.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-28-2020, 10:44 PM)jason Wrote: Isn't just about everyone who rises to that level of power sorta a dick though?  I personally don't know of any benevolent generals. Killing and inflicting damage is kind of their thing.

Patton was certainly no angel, and he was definitely our best general of WW2.  He's the only one the Germans had legit respect for.  Although I give Eisenhower a lot of respect for being able to hold together that coalition of disparate personalities and goals.

[BmorePat87]

(07-28-2020, 09:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ehhh.  I'll admit to not knowing a ton about him, all of that included.  I love studying history, but I've never been that into the history of my own country.  Prior to watching the John Adams HBO series I didn't have much interest in really studying the Revolution or the Framers.  Although i will admit that Christopher Hitchens got me interested their writings and those of Thomas Paine prior to that.

Speaking of revolutionary era TV shows, I just started Turn today and it's really good. I need to re-watch John Adams. I've been on a Revolutionary War kick. Watched Hamilton (good music, bad history) and the Patriot (bad history, fun action) recently. 

[NATI BENGALS]

(07-28-2020, 08:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I admit nothing.

As for Lee, eh, I don't harbor much in the way of goodwill towards a man who saw slavery as good for black people and fought to preserve it. He also was a rather cruel slaveowner, intentionally breaking up families. His estate was one descended from George Washington due to his wife and some of the families he broke up had been together since Mount Vernon days. His army also enslaved free black people in the north and shipped them back south. The image of the honorable Lee is a creation of the Lost Cause movement.

hmmm. I feel like without twitter or fb fact checkers allowing this post to stay and be real I don't know if I can believe it. 

Some of my southern friends say Lee was basically jesus, hence the idolization. 

[Belsnickel]

(07-28-2020, 09:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ehhh.  I'll admit to not knowing a ton about him, all of that included.  I love studying history, but I've never been that into the history of my own country.  Prior to watching the John Adams HBO series I didn't have much interest in really studying the Revolution or the Framers.  Although i will admit that Christopher Hitchens got me interested their writings and those of Thomas Paine prior to that.

Which is fair. I've lived all but the first year of my life in Virginia. Specifically, I live in the Shenandoah Valley which was not only the "Breadbasket of the Confederacy," it was home to much of the fighting during the Civil War. I'm quite literally sitting on a Civil War battlefield, right now. Suffice it to say, that era of history is very important to this area. East of here, there is more focus on the Revolutionary War because most of that took place over there, but we do have some of that here, too. Like I can tell you where Washington had chosen to make his last stand if it came to it because I fish in that area a lot. So yeah, colonial history through the Civil War is huge around these parts.

(07-29-2020, 02:53 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: hmmm. I feel like without twitter or fb fact checkers allowing this post to stay and be real I don't know if I can believe it. 

Some of my southern friends say Lee was basically jesus, hence the idolization. 

Well, this southern friend is here to give the facts.

In all seriousness, there is a quote from a letter Lee wrote that people use to say he was anti-slavery. In the letter he calls slavery a necessary evil, so people cling to that to say he begrudgingly owned slaves and what not. However, the context of the letter is that he said slavery was bad for white people. He goes on in that letter to explain that the black race is better off enslaved.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-28-2020, 11:42 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Speaking of revolutionary era TV shows, I just started Turn today and it's really good. I need to re-watch John Adams. I've been on a Revolutionary War kick. Watched Hamilton (good music, bad history) and the Patriot (bad history, fun action) recently. 

I'll check that out.  Always looking for something new to watch.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-28-2020, 11:42 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Speaking of revolutionary era TV shows, I just started Turn today and it's really good. I need to re-watch John Adams. I've been on a Revolutionary War kick. Watched Hamilton (good music, bad history) and the Patriot (bad history, fun action) recently. 

I liked it. (Turn) Thought it got a little weak at the end, but all in all it was pretty good.  Arnold is even a somewhat sympathetic character.

[BmorePat87]

(07-29-2020, 01:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I liked it. (Turn) Thought it got a little weak at the end, but all in all it was pretty good.  Arnold is even a somewhat sympathetic character.

I'm 7 episodes in. Impressive 1st season