Senior MI GOP Lawmakers arrive in DC to talk about changing electors

[BmorePat87]

We’ve reached what will be a very low point in this era’s history of our nation. The president, having lost the election, is inviting state lawmakers to the White House to lobby them to violate state laws and give him the states electors despite losing.

For almost 5 years many people have defended the blatant disregard that he has for everything this nation is supposed to stand for. Many here have bent over backwards and some, seemingly incapable of comprehending basic civics, had resorted to throwing out diagnoses of fake mental disorders whenever someone brought up one of the many issues occurring under the Trump administration. Yet, this is where we are.

Trump wants to extend the invitation to PA’s state Republicans next. Does anyone want to take a shot at defending him now?

[GMDino]

(11-20-2020, 02:48 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: We’ve reached what will be a very low point in this era’s history of our nation. The president, having lost the election, is inviting state lawmakers to the White House to lobby them to violate state laws and give him the states electors despite losing.

For almost 5 years many people have defended the blatant disregard that he has for everything this nation is supposed to stand for. Many here have bent over backwards and some, seemingly incapable of comprehending basic civics, had resorted to throwing out diagnoses of fake mental disorders whenever someone brought up one of the many issues occurring under the Trump administration. Yet, this is where we are.

Trump wants to extend the invitation to PA’s state Republicans next. Does anyone want to take a shot at defending him now?

How can they when you've show your "bias" about Trump? 

Nonetheless I fully expect someone to say this his is "right" at some point.

[*Nately120*]

The best thing about this is if the GOP just makes Trump the president in 2020 they're going to have absolutely no reason to not make Trump president for a 3rd term or just start appointing his kids for decades at a time. Once you break the rules for a dictator they hardly scale things back and are satiated.

This is our "give Hitler Poland and hope he stops being a bastard" moment, and yes I'm going overboard and using the H-word. I don't even care. Give Trump 2020 and you're going to have to stop expecting anything resembling a normal election happening any time soon. Just my scared take.

[hollodero]

How is this even surprising. This plan was floating around for quite some time now. And for quite some time it was clear that Trump and many of his party don't really care much about impropriety. Nor does a critical mass of supporters that rather have a one-party system with an autocratic leader than a democracy. It's just where you are.

Same thing with the rigged election claims. It was clear as day that this would come, yet so many acted so amazed when Trump predictably started using those lines.

Oh yeah, and apperently it is within his rights to demand electors be nominated regardless of election results. Seems your constitution allows for that.

[BmorePat87]

(11-20-2020, 03:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The best thing about this is if the GOP just makes Trump the president in 2020 they're going to have absolutely no reason to not make Trump president for a 3rd term or just start appointing his kids for decades at a time.  Once you break the rules for a dictator they hardly scale things back and are satiated.

This is our "give Hitler Poland and hope he stops being a bastard" moment, and yes I'm going overboard and using the H-word.  I don't even care.  Give Trump 2020 and you're going to have to stop expecting anything resembling a normal election happening any time soon.  Just my scared take.

technically it is constitutional (at the national level) for legislatures to assign electors however this wish, but in the case of Michigan it would violate their state law. I'm sure PA has a similar law awarding the electors winner-take-all to the state winner. 

[Au165]

Again, this is called a coup attempt in other countries. Not sure why we dance around it. We usually are quick to condemn such behavior by others yet here we are watching it happen in real-time.

[GMDino]

The more I read about this "idea" the more I understand why so many on the right support the EC.  If we just counted everyone's votes they couldn't even TRY to jockey situations like this in "friendly" states.

It's really disgusting.

[GMDino]

This morning, I asked @SenMikeShirkey if he would honor the will of Michigan voters in his meeting with Trump today. He responded by singing a hymn about being persecuted: pic.twitter.com/IQRXokq9F2

— Lauren Windsor (@lawindsor) November 20, 2020

[BmorePat87]

(11-20-2020, 03:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: Again, this is called a coup attempt in other countries. Not sure why we dance around it. We usually are quick to condemn such behavior by others yet here we are watching it happen in real-time.

because the GOP still needs him to get them 2 Senators from GA.

[Benton]

We'll see what happens. I don't think it's illegal to have the discussion of trying to undermine voters. Honestly, my only surprise is that Trump waited so long to do it. I thought we'd hear about this back when polling projected Biden.

[GMDino]

(11-20-2020, 04:31 PM)Benton Wrote: We'll see what happens. I don't think it's illegal to have the discussion of trying to undermine voters. Honestly, my only surprise is that Trump waited so long to do it. I thought we'd hear about this back when polling projected Biden.

That would have implied he believed the polls that made him look bad.  He doesn't believe anything that makes him look bad.  That's why we are where we are.

[Au165]

(11-20-2020, 04:31 PM)Benton Wrote: We'll see what happens. I don't think it's illegal to have the discussion of trying to undermine voters. Honestly, my only surprise is that Trump waited so long to do it. I thought we'd hear about this back when polling projected Biden.

Depends. If he offers them anything of value whatsoever, even promoting them politically through his Twitter, it would fall under Michigan's bribery statute. The interesting thing about this is Trump by doing this has now opened himself up to investigation by the Michigan AG, another investigation he will be unable to get out of via pardon when he leaves office. Simply taking this meeting could be enough to open up an investigation where he will have to submit to depositions about what was actually said (there is no executive privilege available here) where he very easily can perjure himself.

[BmorePat87]

(11-20-2020, 04:31 PM)Benton Wrote: We'll see what happens. I don't think it's illegal to have the discussion of trying to undermine voters. Honestly, my only surprise is that Trump waited so long to do it. I thought we'd hear about this back when polling projected Biden.

The idea was being floated around some circles in October and then shortly after the election. 

(11-20-2020, 04:38 PM)Au165 Wrote: Depends. If he offers them anything of value whatsoever, even promoting them politically through his Twitter, it would fall under Michigan's bribery statute. The interesting thing about this is Trump by doing this has now opened himself up to investigation by the Michigan AG, another investigation he will be unable to get out of via pardon when he leaves office. Simply taking this meeting could be enough to open up an investigation where he will have to submit to depositions about what was actually said (there is no executive privilege available here) where he very easily can perjure himself.

That's what I have been reading. The Michigan lawmakers open themselves up to being barred from holding office if there's some sort of deal. 

[BmorePat87]

This is not a joke.

White House: this is not an advocacy meeting. No one with the campaign is involved. This is just a routine chat with lawmakers.

Rudy: I'll be there.

White House: Rudy will not be there since he was in contact with someone who had covid

[Big Boss]

My understanding is the legislature can't change the slate of electors after-the-fact, per state law. The only way to change how electors are chosen is to change state law, which can't be applied retroactively to an election that was just held.

The optics of this meeting are extremely abhorrent, but I suspect this is empty posturing.

There's a lawyer on Twitter named T. Greg Doucette who has spent the last couple of weeks discussing these scenarios at length. He seems adamant that this is a non-starter.

[*Nately120*]

(11-20-2020, 07:04 PM)Big Boss Wrote: My understanding is the legislature can't change the slate of electors after-the-fact, per state law.  The only way to change how electors are chosen is to change state law, which can't be applied retroactively to an election that was just held.

The optics of this meeting are extremely abhorrent, but I suspect this is empty posturing.  

There's a lawyer on Twitter named T. Greg Doucette who has spent the last couple of weeks discussing these scenarios at length.  He seems adamant that this is a non-starter.

Academically, I realize this is empty nonsense and/or Trump being a man incapable of considering anything other than his own sense of self.  My issue is that this shows significantly more than zero people in this country are very amenable to the notion of discarding democracy in favor of what they deem a productive totalitarian system.  I'm bummed.

[Benton]

(11-20-2020, 07:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Academically, I realize this is empty nonsense and/or Trump being a man incapable of considering anything other than his own sense of self.  My issue is that this shows significantly more than zero people in this country are very amenable to the notion of discarding democracy in favor of what they deem a productive totalitarian system.  I'm bummed.

That's the odd bit about it.

The same group that largely vocalizes concerns about totalitarianism and police states and government control is going all in on totalitarianism. I guess because it's "their" dictator?

[BmorePat87]

(11-20-2020, 07:04 PM)Big Boss Wrote: My understanding is the legislature can't change the slate of electors after-the-fact, per state law. The only way to change how electors are chosen is to change state law, which can't be applied retroactively to an election that was just held.

The optics of this meeting are extremely abhorrent, but I suspect this is empty posturing.

There's a lawyer on Twitter named T. Greg Doucette who has spent the last couple of weeks discussing these scenarios at length. He seems adamant that this is a non-starter.

Absolutely, and as I said, it’d require violating the state law. The disappointing part is that there isn’t universal rejection of this idea .

[Belsnickel]

(11-20-2020, 07:46 PM)Benton Wrote: That's the odd bit about it.

The same group that largely vocalizes concerns about totalitarianism and police states and government control is going all in on totalitarianism. I guess because it's "their" dictator?

I don't find it odd. This is the same group that flies the Gadsden and the Thin Blue Line flags together, when they are ideologically in opposition of each other. They only care about their side being in power and don't actually understand the policy implications behind these ideologies.

[GMDino]

That's that for that too.

After earlier stalling, here's the moment Republican Aaron Van Langevelde of Michigan’s State Board of Canvassers said he will vote to certify Michigan’s election results.

This is it: Michigan's 16 electoral votes officially go to Joe Biden.pic.twitter.com/EZemjFxaSD

— The Recount (@therecount) November 23, 2020