Serious Question for Trump voters/supporters. Are you embarrassed by anything yet?

[*michaelsean*]

(08-02-2017, 03:09 PM)Dill Wrote: If Democrats did not accept election results, they would be asking for a recall.

None of your points counts as not accepting election results.

Yes, Trump has generated much resistance. You don't appear to recognize how Trump himself is responsible for that. Just this week, Police and law enforcement organizations across the country are angry at his "joke" urging police to disrespect suspect rights. He was rebuked by the Boy Scouts last week. First time ever for a president. Do you think all that is because they don't accept the election results? And so it goes, week after week.

Name one previous president who is as vulgar and knows so little about how government works.  You cannot.  Do you think the media should NOT report on his character flaws and incompetence so the reporting will be more "fair"-- 50-50?  That appears to be what you are demanding. The media should change, not Trump.

There is a Russia investigation because 1) they interfered with our election, 2) because Trump is unable to criticize Russia (i.e., defend the US against this foreign threat, 3) because so many of Trumps campaign staff met with Russian operatives (including Don jr, seeking to collude), and because Trump fired the FBI director for continuing to investigate.

When you quote one highly partisan Republican who claims the investigation is a sham, you are ignoring the CIA and FBI intel, just as Trump does, the man in charge of national security. Are CIA/FBI personnel "leftists" who don't accept election results? 

Along with King and Trump, there is Fox News, now facing a scandal and lawsuit for creating and promoting a fake news story to distract from the Russian investigation.

A president so bad that a right wing news organization had to allegedly create fake news for "balance." The claim that Russia is "fake news" is itself fake news, generated by the right wing media to defend the worst president in history.

There is no such thing as a recall for the President.

[GMDino]

(08-03-2017, 01:13 AM)michaelsean Wrote: There is no such thing as a recall for the President.

Maybe he meant recount?

Either way the poll and the responses, so far, seem to indicate that the POTUS cannot do anything that would embarrass the vast majority of his supporters.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-03-2017, 08:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: Maybe he meant recount?

Either way the poll and the responses, so far, seem to indicate that the POTUS cannot do anything that would embarrass the vast majority of his supporters.

They did try to get recounts though.

[GMDino]

(08-03-2017, 09:23 AM)michaelsean Wrote: They did try to get recounts though.

There were recounts, but not initiated by the DNC, Clinton or voters.  I believe they were automatically triggered.

Either way even if a hundred disgruntled voters demanded a recount with pitchforks and flaming torches the vat majority of voters, even those upset with the results, never suggested voter fraud and demanded a recount.

That was the POTUS that said that. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-01-2017, 07:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, I'm not an expert in the industry, and I won't even remotely claim to be.  But, from a citizen's point of view, customers not being able to purchase health coverage over State lines seems to be a big issue in restriction of free market solution.  Since the Federal Government feels compelled to be involved, why not do something to help the matter?  Why not make every company that wishes to provide health coverage in the US, be Federally Licensed to do so, in the entire US?

I think I missed this post. The state restrictions are an issue, but maybe not as big an issue as you might think. Most people get their insurance through their employer or Medicare/Medicaid. So approximately 80% of households won't be shopping for individual health insurance policies across state lines. Your employer limits your choice of policies way more than not being able to purchase an out of state policy.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Bipartisan state governors ask Trump to stop being a douche concerning health insurance.

https://www.nga.org/cms/news/2017/stabilize-state-health-insurance-marketplaces

[NATI BENGALS]

Yikes! Embarassing poll results.

Just plain party over country mentality showing through.

[NATI BENGALS]

The ultimate negotiator..

Act like a spoiled kid stomping the feet and pouting.

Thank god he has another campaign rally tonight... Wtf.

Campaign rally then vacation. Getting it done.

[Dill]

(08-03-2017, 01:13 AM)michaelsean Wrote: There is no such thing as a recall for the President.

I meant to write "recount."

[Dill]

(08-03-2017, 09:23 AM)michaelsean Wrote: They did try to get recounts though.

The question at hand is whether Democrats have accepted the election results or not.

The claim was made that the Russian investigation is merely a result of Democrats refusing to accept that Trump was elected.

A call for recounts in some states could have been justified, but this election has not been disputed as the Gore Bush election was. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-03-2017, 03:46 PM)Dill Wrote: The question at hand is whether Democrats have accepted the election results or not.

The claim was made that the Russian investigation is merely a result of Democrats refusing to accept that Trump was elected.

A call for recounts in some states could have been justified, but this election has not been disputed as the Gore Bush election was. 

Instead people just rioted, burned shit, put on black masks, and have been roaming around in packs with weapons, beating the shit out of anyone who they disagree with.

Sounds WAY more accepting.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-03-2017, 09:44 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I think I missed this post. The state restrictions are an issue, but maybe not as big an issue as you might think. Most people get their insurance through their employer or Medicare/Medicaid. So approximately 80% of households won't be shopping for individual health insurance policies across state lines. Your employer limits your choice of policies way more than not being able to purchase an out of state policy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/13/number-of-people-with-health-insurance-via-jobs-remained-steady-with-obamacare.html

This link states that 70.8% of Americans in the work force are on employer sponsored health program, roughly 155M people, or a little less than half of the American population.  Also said that some 77+M were on Medicaid, and only 11M were on individual policies via the exchanges.

Now, as for me, I've been on both sides of the coin.  When I was self-employed, I purchased an individual policy, it ran me around $250/mo.  When the recession hit, I had to drop it.  I was uninsured, until I went to work full time for the company I currently work with.  I haven't priced any individual policies lately, but everything I hear claims them to high in price and narrow on choices.  Fortunately for me, my employer provides us with excellent coverage through United Health Care, even better than what my wife has (BCBS, as a State Employee).

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-03-2017, 04:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/13/number-of-people-with-health-insurance-via-jobs-remained-steady-with-obamacare.html

This link states that 70.8% of Americans in the work force are on employer sponsored health program, roughly 155M people, or a little less than half of the American population.  Also said that some 77+M were on Medicaid, and only 11M were on individual policies via the exchanges.

Now, as for me, I've been on both sides of the coin.  When I was self-employed, I purchased an individual policy, it ran me around $250/mo.  When the recession hit, I had to drop it.  I was uninsured, until I went to work full time for the company I currently work with.  I haven't priced any individual policies lately, but everything I hear claims them to high in price and narrow on choices.  Fortunately for me, my employer provides us with excellent coverage through United Health Care, even better than what my wife has (BCBS, as a State Employee).

Individual policies are expensive. Essentially double what an employer sponsored plan would cost because the employer usually pays half the annual premium. The price of an individual policy would essentially be the same as COBRA.

[Dill]

(08-02-2017, 07:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To first part.  I absolutely believe that free market competition forces competing companies to put out a quality product at an affordable price.  If they don't, their company fails, and they go out of business.  If companies A and B are both Federally licensed to sell health coverage in the US, and carry relatively similar products, and are both allowed to market the same population, the company with the better rate is going to win 10/10 times.

As to second part.  I really don't care what works in the rest of the world.  We don't live in the rest of the world, we live in the US.  The US is unique.  We have a government of the people, for the people, by the people.  By and large, even our lower class citizens enjoy a more prosperous existence than the majority of the world.  Why is the US so wealthy that even our poor have luxuries like cell phones, tattoos, tricked out cars?  Because we are a Capitalist Economy, we make more money than we need...

Free market forces tend to raise prices in some sectors of the economy. Think of what happened when HMOs were privatized and competing to "put out a quality product."  In point of fact, many companies do well precisely because they are able to sell products for far more than they are worth. That is the logic of branding. "Quality" becomes a matter of perception, and controlling perception is the goal of brand marketing (including political brands).

If Germans develop a protocol for treating liver cancer which has better results than current protocols used in the US, US doctors will not say "I don't care what works in the rest of the world . . . We live in the unique US." They will adopt the German protocols.  If Japanese figure out a more efficient way to organize the manufacture of automobiles, US automobile manufacturers may say "Japan is not us"--until the lower price of Japanese automobiles prompts them to adopt the same innovation. Where competition does work, why stop it at the US border? I don't see why this would not apply to healthcare as well. If Germans can provide quality healthcare and access for half the price, we ought to ask why, and if what they are doing will work here. If Japanese can do MRIs for 125 dollars a pop, where hospitals aren't competing in a "free market," we ought to ask why they cost thousands in the US where hospitals do compete. And if reducing the role of the free market is required, why not consider that.

As far as our prosperous poor go--part of that prosperity is a result of entitlements. Without redistribution of wealth, which occurs outside the market, our poor are not much better off than India's.

By the way, cell phones and tattoos are not really "luxuries." They are ubiquitous in slums all over the world. Our poor have them--so do "their" poor. 

(You are a moderator now, so you have to consider my posts from a non-partisan perspective lol!)

[Dill]

(08-03-2017, 03:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Instead people just rioted, burned shit, put on black masks, and have been roaming around in packs with weapons, beating the shit out of anyone who they disagree with.

Sounds WAY more accepting.

If you are refering to AntiFa protestors, so far as I know they don't claim Trump was not duly elected. Also, they don't represent the Democratic party. 

As I said, there is no organized movement claiming the Trump was not legitimately elected. The vast majority of Democrats and others who oppose Trump are focused on the question of how he was able to manipulate so many into voting for him. That is the problem. The problem is not a fraudulent election, but a fraudulent candidate, a huckster promoting his brand.

[NATI BENGALS]

Cracking down on the press... MAGA.

We need state run media right my fellow trumpets?

Fox news is already there. We should just give them the proper recognition.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-03-2017, 11:36 PM)Dill Wrote: If you are refering to AntiFa protestors, so far as I know they don't claim Trump was not duly elected. Also, they don't represent the Democratic party. 

As I said, there is no organized movement claiming the Trump was not legitimately elected. The vast majority of Democrats and others who oppose Trump are focused on the question of how he was able to manipulate so many into voting for him. That is the problem. The problem is not a fraudulent election, but a fraudulent candidate, a huckster promoting his brand.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/20/us/not-my-presidents-day-protests/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/02/20/not-my-presidents-day-rallies/98151790/
etc

Not saying you have to love him or anything, but you pretending nobody is trying to deny the election is awfully silly. If people recognized he duly and legitimately elected, they wouldn't have rioted (there were non-Antifa riots) or held marches and protests of how he's not their President. If they accepted the results of the election, then they would accept that he's their President. That kind of goes hand-in-hand.

[*jason*]

(08-05-2017, 11:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/20/us/not-my-presidents-day-protests/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/02/20/not-my-presidents-day-rallies/98151790/
etc

Not saying you have to love him or anything, but you pretending nobody is trying to deny the election is awfully silly. If people recognized he duly and legitimately elected, they wouldn't have rioted (there were non-Antifa riots) or held marches and protests of how he's not their President. If they accepted the results of the election, then they would accept that he's their President. That kind of goes hand-in-hand.

I'm afraid that sort of behavior is here to stay. Political discourse is toxic at the moment. We'll never know, but it doesn't seem outrageous to me to think that there may have been riots if Clinton won.

[tigerseye]

Am I embarrassed by anything yet?

I'm embarrassed for the Main Stream Propaganda Outlets (CNN,MSNBC,NBC,Wash Post,NY Times,etc...) efforts to destroy our elected President to the harming of our nation.

I'm embarrassed for the leaders of both parties who are doing everything in their power to obstruct and damage our elected President.

I'm embarrassed that John McCain is an elected official in the United States.

I'm embarrassed that Paul Ryan is such a pu#$&.

I'm embarrassed that the swamp didn't get the message from the US citizens and are now proving beyond a reasonable doubt that they are truly the cancer that is killing our nation.

I'm embarrassed that the swamp is using Mueller to come up with anything he can to stop what President Trump is doing.

The swamp is scared to death that their deeds will be investigated. Both sides are guilty as hell. Trump wanted to take this on and drain the swamp or at least try. All the citizens should be behind him 100%.

These are the same a holes who have gotten rich running our country into the ground. Why would any citizen not want all that has happened to be investigated.

Trump misspeaks and does things he probably shouldn't. Nobody is perfect.

Give the guy a chance maybe he will surprise you.

Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 and Obama were a disaster. Wars, running off manufacturing and running the country on a credit card, hell any of us could have done that.

Never know, if everybody got off his back, maybe he could Make America Great Again.

It seems to me that is exactly what they are afraid of. Wonder why?

God Bless America.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2017, 12:57 AM)jason Wrote: I'm afraid that sort of behavior is here to stay. Political discourse is toxic at the moment. We'll never know, but it doesn't seem outrageous to me to think that there may have been riots if Clinton won.

Well, considering the Trump supporters that said if he lost there would be a violent uprising, I don't think it would be outrageous to assume there would have been. Especially given the number of protests with "not my president" signs and other paraphernalia that were around in 2008-2017.