Should Mayorkas be impeached?

[GMDino]

At dinner Friday my friend and I had this same conversation:

Him saying Biden didn't do "anything".  Biden "Waited" until an election year to do "something".  

Me sharing what I've read about the actions that been taken.

I even sent him the links Bels shared about Title 42 and the moves afterward.

His response?  "He's not enforcing them."

He's my best friend.  He can't stand P01135809 despite being a republican. He just can't believe the Democrats are running Biden again.  Because THEY have to do something to stop P01135809...not the republican voters.

Yet he will stand on this issue that we have "open borders" and Biden has done "nothing".

A still love the man like the brother I never had, but he gets influenced by the noise machine too.

[Belsnickel]

(02-11-2024, 10:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: At dinner Friday my friend and I had this same conversation:

Him saying Biden didn't do "anything".  Biden "Waited" until an election year to do "something".  

Me sharing what I've read about the actions that been taken.

I even sent him the links Bels shared about Title 42 and the moves afterward.

His response?  "He's not enforcing them."

He's my best friend.  He can't stand P01135809 despite being a republican. He just can't believe the Democrats are running Biden again.  Because THEY have to do something to stop P01135809...not the republican voters.

Yet he will stand on this issue that we have "open borders" and Biden has done "nothing".

A still love the man like the brother I never had, but he gets influenced by the noise machine too.

When I would be in psychology classes and in seminars about combatting misinformation, we would often talk about how we aren't going to get anywhere by proving them wrong. It makes people uncomfortable to be proven wrong and the cognitive dissonance will take over to avoid that uncomfortability. This is actually a well researched and written about phenomenon. It's why I don't typically approach the conversations in here as if I am actually trying to convince anyone. You'll notice that I have had to share the information about the border policies multiple times and have asked the question "what policies are the Biden administration not enforcing?" numerous times but have yet to receive any cogent response once they are faced with the reality of the situation. They ignore it because it makes them uncomfortable as they cannot reconcile the facts with their understood reality so they attempt to explain it away and usually don't reply.

There is actually evidence that proving them wrong in this way can potentially entrench them even deeper into their beliefs. This is why I don't really have these sorts of conversations out in the wild and instead reserve it for on here. As a Scouter, Freemason, and SAR Compatriot, I am surrounded by conservatives all the time including quite a few that believe this bunk. But, I just chat with them about the things we like talking about. Both Scouting and Freemasonry specifically are intentionally apolitical as discussions of those topics in those environments disrupts the vibe we are going for (using modern terms there).

[GMDino]

(02-11-2024, 02:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: When I would be in psychology classes and in seminars about combatting misinformation, we would often talk about how we aren't going to get anywhere by proving them wrong. It makes people uncomfortable to be proven wrong and the cognitive dissonance will take over to avoid that uncomfortability. This is actually a well researched and written about phenomenon. It's why I don't typically approach the conversations in here as if I am actually trying to convince anyone. You'll notice that I have had to share the information about the border policies multiple times and have asked the question "what policies are the Biden administration not enforcing?" numerous times but have yet to receive any cogent response once they are faced with the reality of the situation. They ignore it because it makes them uncomfortable as they cannot reconcile the facts with their understood reality so they attempt to explain it away and usually don't reply.

There is actually evidence that proving them wrong in this way can potentially entrench them even deeper into their beliefs. This is why I don't really have these sorts of conversations out in the wild and instead reserve it for on here. As a Scouter, Freemason, and SAR Compatriot, I am surrounded by conservatives all the time including quite a few that believe this bunk. But, I just chat with them about the things we like talking about. Both Scouting and Freemasonry specifically are intentionally apolitical as discussions of those topics in those environments disrupts the vibe we are going for (using modern terms there).

Yeah I get that.

I actually started the evening with "I don't want to talk politics" and he said it was only because of the Hur report and Biden being senile. 

Like I said though, he's like my brother.  We were the best man at each other's weddings.  We can have these conversations and then in the end we both agree that both parties are crap in some way and changes need to be made.  

I just wanted to share that even people we can agree with, who we like, can be mislead by the information they take in regularly.

Our brief discussion of the documents report went a lot better...lol.

[NATI BENGALS]

Ok. After the house GOP gets done celebrating impeaching Mayorkas for crimes I’m unsure of just so they can get a pat on the back and praise from daddy. What are the odds they create any new legislation beneficial for the American people this year? Other than passing a budget and basically paying our bills.

[Belsnickel]

They held this vote because the results of the special election tonight has a chance of them losing a functional majority for the rest of the year. Honestly, doing this when they have said they are refusing to take up legislation to help the situation at the border just highlights how stupid they are and how stupid they think their voters are. Sadly, they tend to be right.

[*pally*]

I feel safer already with this move....(sarcasm alert)

[GMDino]

worth remembering this clip moments after Speaker Johnson announced a total party-line impeachment of Mayorkas ? https://t.co/lVou7J5i5W

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) February 14, 2024

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Luvnit2]

(02-13-2024, 10:13 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Ok. After the house GOP gets done celebrating impeaching Mayorkas for crimes I’m unsure of just so they can get a pat on the back and praise from daddy. What are the odds they create any new legislation beneficial for the American people this year? Other than passing a budget and basically paying our bills.

Do some research, GOP passed an immigration bill, it is sitting on Schumer's desk. Abbott has attempted to deter illegal immigrants by razor wire and barriers in the water.

Biden's DOJ has sued Texas and attempted to stop them from deterring illegal immigrants setting foot in the US. The huge bill was a joke doing nothing to deter illegal immigrants from entering the country.
Please show us 1 thing Bidden, Senate and Mayorkas did to stop/deter illegal immigration.

You can't because it has not happened. For 3 years Biden and his minions have said the border was secure. Now in an election year they declare the border a  crisis and attempt to blame Trump and the GOP. Sorry, it won't work.

Look it up, Johnson sent the Senate an immigation bill, a stand alone bill. Why won't sure taje it to floor, debate it and get it passed if Democrats want to stop the flow of illegal immigrants entering the US. Simple answer, Democrats want a an open border and exactly why rightly so Mayorkas took an oath to follow the law. He did not follow immigration laws already on the book and attempted to stop Texas from not following illegal immigration law.

[Luvnit2]

(02-13-2024, 10:19 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They held this vote because the results of the special election tonight has a chance of them losing a functional majority for the rest of the year. Honestly, doing this when they have said they are refusing to take up legislation to help the situation at the border just highlights how stupid they are and how stupid they think their voters are. Sadly, they tend to be right.

Again, GOP has sent a bill to Schumer in 2023. Why won't Schumer take it to the floor, debate it and pass it?

[*Nately120*]

(02-11-2024, 02:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: When I would be in psychology classes and in seminars about combatting misinformation, we would often talk about how we aren't going to get anywhere by proving them wrong. It makes people uncomfortable to be proven wrong and the cognitive dissonance will take over to avoid that uncomfortability. This is actually a well researched and written about phenomenon. It's why I don't typically approach the conversations in here as if I am actually trying to convince anyone. You'll notice that I have had to share the information about the border policies multiple times and have asked the question "what policies are the Biden administration not enforcing?" numerous times but have yet to receive any cogent response once they are faced with the reality of the situation. They ignore it because it makes them uncomfortable as they cannot reconcile the facts with their understood reality so they attempt to explain it away and usually don't reply.

I'm a fan of combining the Socratic and Columbo methods of talking to people about this stuff.  Seems diplomatic enough to follow their exposition with an "Interesting...doesn't add up to me, but maybe.  Anyways I've taken up enough of your time here."  As you've said, you let people try to explain things to you and see how they react to hearing their own beliefs out loud.

On a fun conspiracy-related note, my wife sent me a tiktok with a cat meowing it's head off and my cat perked up and looked concerned and began to frantically search around the house for this cat that did not exist.  I said the cat was on the phone, I showed him the phone, I showed him the phone that was emitting the cat sounds, but he had to look around for himself.  I couldn't prove to him this mystery cat wasn't under the bed.  Eventually he gave up and moved on with his life and he seems to be enjoying his life of being a cat once again.

Whether you are talking about a person or a dumbass orange cat, you have to let them search for nothing themselves. 


Oh wait, he didn't give up he just bought a bunch of merch that says THERE IS A CAT IN HERE THAT I CAN'T FIND AND YOU KNOW IT.

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-14-2024, 01:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Again, GOP has sent a bill to Schumer in 2023. Why won't Schumer take it to the floor, debate it and pass it?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/SAP-H.R.-2.pdf

Because most people in this country are not on board with being cruel and making life worse for some of the most desperate people in the world.

How about instead of kicking, screaming, and crying because the house freedom caucus can’t have its way. They act like adults who are politicians and NEGOTIATE to reach a solution. And come to an acceptable agreement by all parties. Like what the senate BIPARTISAN negotiation was supposed to be.

[Belsnickel]

(02-14-2024, 07:56 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/SAP-H.R.-2.pdf

Because most people in this country are not on board with being cruel and making life worse for some of the most desperate people in the world.

How about instead of kicking, screaming, and crying because the house freedom caucus can’t have its way. They act like adults who are politicians and NEGOTIATE to reach a solution. And come to an acceptable agreement by all parties. Like what the senate BIPARTISAN negotiation was supposed to be.

GOP: "We won't pass more funding for Ukraine without border security attached to it."

Adults in the room: *create bipartisan legislation that really gives the GOP most of what they wanted on the border and gives aid to Ukraine and Israel.*

Trump: "No, no, no! We must keep it chaotic at the border so I can blame Biden on the campaign trail for something!"

House GOP: (before they even know what is in the bill) "It still lets in 5,000 illegal immigrants a day!" (it doesn't). "We don't really need legislation; Biden can just do it under his executive authority (even though we have been clamoring for legislation to add this authority for years and attempts to do these things by executive action have been shot down in the courts). "We should vote on these things separately! (even though we said we wanted it packaged together).

Senate: "Fine, here is a bill with just the aid to Ukraine and Israel and we can continue discussing the border."

House GOP: "Nope! Since it doesn't have border security we won't consider it!"

[*Nately120*]

If Trump really had loyal fans he'd be able to run for president with a secure border and still get elected by simply telling people that the border was a wide open mess. I'm actually a bit surprised he even thinks he has to sabotage the border in order to run on our border being a "disaster."

[Stewy]

(02-14-2024, 08:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: GOP: "We won't pass more funding for Ukraine without border security attached to it."

Adults in the room: *create bipartisan legislation that really gives the GOP most of what they wanted on the border and gives aid to Ukraine and Israel.*

Trump: "No, no, no! We must keep it chaotic at the border so I can blame Biden on the campaign trail for something!"

House GOP: (before they even know what is in the bill) "It still lets in 5,000 illegal immigrants a day!" (it doesn't). "We don't really need legislation; Biden can just do it under his executive authority (even though we have been clamoring for legislation to add this authority for years and attempts to do these things by executive action have been shot down in the courts). "We should vote on these things separately! (even though we said we wanted it packaged together).

Senate: "Fine, here is a bill with just the aid to Ukraine and Israel and we can continue discussing the border."

House GOP: "Nope! Since it doesn't have border security we won't consider it!"

I was going to post something similar to this.  The hypocrisy of the House GOP is staggering, even for them.

[Belsnickel]

(02-15-2024, 10:32 AM)Stewy Wrote: I was going to post something similar to this.  The hypocrisy of the House GOP is staggering, even for them.

Well , when their base lets them get away with it, then they will continue to do it. We see in this forum that people are willing to fall for their bullshit, so why would they change their ways when they can convince people they are in the right.

[*pally*]

(02-15-2024, 03:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well , when their base lets them get away with it, then they will continue to do it. We see in this forum that people are willing to fall for their bullshit, so why would they change their ways when they can convince people they are in the right.

it gets better...the House GOP is now working on their own foreign aid bill that will include codifying "Stay in Mexico"  you know that same policy they claim doesn't need a law to support

[*pally*]

The House FINALLY sent over the impeachment charges the decided on over 2 months ago. It took the Senate a couple of hours to kill them.

[Dill]

(02-15-2024, 03:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well , when their base lets them get away with it, then they will continue to do it. We see in this forum that people are willing to fall for their bullshit, so why would they change their ways when they can convince people they are in the right.

Their base isn't "letting them get away with it."

They are doing what their base, and Trump, wants, 

or they know they are out of office.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-15-2024, 03:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well , when their base lets them get away with it, then they will continue to do it. We see in this forum that people are willing to fall for their bullshit, so why would they change their ways when they can convince people they are in the right.

Do you think we should have an Open Border? 

I'd prefer a few Dems to answer with a simple yes no for now before we have a convo about it.

[*pally*]

(04-17-2024, 07:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Do you think we should have an Open Border? 

I'd prefer a few Dems to answer with a simple yes no for now before we have a convo about it.

Democrats are not in favor of open borders.