Simple Poll. Is Joe Biden corrupt?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-11-2023, 03:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: I wonder if this poll is putting to test the "this subforum is mostly liberal" theory?

Or maybe "liberals" are just more open minded about their own?

28 votes versus how many posts by unique users?  You are correct in that there'd be a much better mix if certain cliques didn't feel the need to run down any who dare defy their orthodoxy.  I'll even count myself as having been among them at one point.

[Interceptor]

I think Joe's administration is running the country more than he is.

[Dill]

(08-11-2023, 02:39 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Not going to lie, at one point I was once incapable of introspection and would've been knee deep in this thread. 
But I've lived long enough and seen enough election cycles to notice that whatever one side accuses the other of doing, if you just wait 4 or 8 years, the roles will reverse. 
If you're honest with yourself, you will eventually realize that you've been duped and bought into a bunch of propaganda. Once you do that, everything changes. 

Well now the Dems are accusing some Republicans of helping their President attempt a coup.
I would not be surprised if Republicans accuse Dems of that, in less than three years.

But I would be surprised if they had the level of evidence the Dems have now. 

I quite agree that "both sides" accuse each other of the same thing, yet I can't help but notice how often
the accusations are not equivalent in terms of documentable evidence. 

Also, once one realizes one has been "duped," what is it that one then sees beyond the "propaganda"? 

What changes? 

[grampahol]

Even if he is corrupt he's a hell of a lot better at it than Trump. Trump is being charged under RICO statutes. Nice try at gaslighting..

[GMDino]

Now, if they want to try and impeach Biden based on his "dealings" with his son's businesses I'd at least say they were sticking to the narrative.

But drugs and prostitutes?

I am truly starting to believe that most of the elected gop members think Hunter and Joe are the same person.

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-faces-impeachment-resolution-drugs-prostitution-1819044

Quote:President Joe Biden may be facing an impeachment resolution over "drugs and prostitution" after a Republican member of the House of Representatives said he would submit a resolution on file.


Representative Greg Steube, who represents Florida's 17th congressional district, told Newsmax's Rob Schmitt Tonight on Thursday that he intends to file an impeachment resolution on Friday.


Steube's comments come as House Republicans continue to investigate Biden and the business dealings of his son, Hunter Biden, while some Republicans described bank records released this week as a "smoking gun" that provide evidence of corruption by the president.

"Tomorrow, I intend on filing an impeachment resolution on Joe Biden for bribery, for extortion, obstruction of justice, fraud, financial involvement in drugs and prostitution," Steube told guest host David Harris Jr. on Thursday.


President Joe Biden speaks at the George E. Wahlen Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center on August 10, 2023 in Salt Lake City, Utah. Republican Representative Greg Steube has said he will file an impeachment resolution against Biden on Friday.GEORGE FREY/GETTY IMAGES
"We have all the facts and evidence now. In the beginning of this Congress, Republicans wanted to make sure that we did the investigations, that we got the information before the American people," he went on.

"You have witness testimony, you have financial records, you have the laptop, you have text messages, you have phone conversations," Steube said.


"You have all of this evidence now to corroborate and support impeachment articles against the president and I intend on filing those tomorrow on all of these corruption and bribery charges that you just hit the top of the iceberg on, " he said.

Newsweek has reached out to the White House via email for comment.


[color=rgba(12, 11, 11, 0.8)]READ MORE
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Harris Jr. asked: "For all the things you just mentioned—bribery, extortion, obstruction of justice, fraud, financial involvement in drugs and prostitution—and you're saying you have the receipts? You have the proof? Will these impeachment articles—when will they be released, Congressman?"


Steube responded that he would issue a press release on Friday "with all the details. It's pages upon pages of all the different things that we have gathered as Republicans, as the conference."


He then referred to various investigations that House Republicans have conducted since gaining the majority, citing recent testimony by Hunter Biden's former business partner Devon Archer.

Archer told the House Oversight Committee earlier this month that Hunter Biden had put his father, who was then vice president, on the phone during business calls on multiple occasions but denied that Biden had discussed his son's business dealings on those calls. He said Hunter Biden had sold the "illusion" of access to his father.

The White House has repeatedly denied that Biden had any involvement with his son's business affairs.
On Wednesday, a new batch of bank records showing alleged examples of an influence peddling scheme involving the president ignited debate between Republicans and Democrats.


The documents, released as part of a new memo by Republican House Oversight Committee leadership on Wednesday, allege that Biden was a direct party to son Hunter's business dealings with foreign business leaders in countries like Kazakhstan, Russia and Ukraine during his time as vice president, including occasionally dining with Hunter's business associates.

Several Republicans, including Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy, appeared to welcome the records as the "smoking gun" that the GOP investigators have been seeking.


However, Democrats noted that much of the information had already been made public and did not show Biden had been involved with his son's business dealings.


"Committee Republicans have once again released information on financial transactions that do not involve the President," House Oversight Committee ranking member Jamie Raskin, a Maryland Democrat, said in a statement provided to Newsweek. "Instead, they rehash the same Hunter Biden business dealings that Congressional Republicans identified at least three years ago."


"The evidence released since then—including the testimony of witnesses called and interviewed by the Republicans and the records reviewed as part of Chairman [James] Comer's probe—have all clearly established that President Biden was not involved in his son's business dealings," Raskin said.

Who wants to bet they will push for the impeachment to being the same day as Trump's real trial?

[Belsnickel]

So, I just spent some time reading the memos coming from the House Oversight Committee. They do not present any evidence of Joe Biden's wrongdoing, only conjecture. Hunter Biden sure looks slimy and I look forward to seeing him go to prison, but nothing they have put forth is actual evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden.

If they are really concerned about Hunter Biden receiving money under these sorts of circumstances, can the House Oversight Committee also investigate the whole Jared Kushner Saudi Arabia thing? I am just saying, if we are really interested in equal treatment under the law for both sides, it only seems right that we should start looking into that. No?

[GMDino]

(08-13-2023, 12:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, I just spent some time reading the memos coming from the House Oversight Committee. They do not present any evidence of Joe Biden's wrongdoing, only conjecture. Hunter Biden sure looks slimy and I look forward to seeing him go to prison, but nothing they have put forth is actual evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden.

If they are really concerned about Hunter Biden receiving money under these sorts of circumstances, can the House Oversight Committee also investigate the whole Jared Kushner Saudi Arabia thing? I am just saying, if we are really interested in equal treatment under the law for both sides, it only seems right that we should start looking into that. No?

Does that make you an extremist who can't see the other side?  

Listen if hypocrisy was food the current slate of gop members could feed he world.  Every time I see Hunter got $20 million I think about Kushner's 2 BILLION that he got AFTER HE WORKED IN THE WHITE HOUSE and just shake my head.  It's not even worth mentioning anymore because the right doesn't care.

I'm with you (and many others) that when/if Hunter is convicted and does jail time so be it.  Do the crime, do the time.

But I'm also old enough to remember Billy Carter, Roger Clinton, The Bush twins, etc.  Having a family member *not quite* up to the office of the POTUS while you are POTUS isn't anything new.  And that's just in MY lifetime.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-11-2023, 02:59 PM)treee Wrote: Depends on the context. I'd be comfortable saying he is less corrupt than both Clintons, both Bushs, and Reagan (edit: and obviously less corrupt than trump). The fact that he has been in the federal government so long almost guarantees he's been a part of some unsavory horse trading though on top of whichever lobbyists he likely capitulated to while in the legislature.

Less corrupt than..  is still corrupt.  Hence the American public is still forced into voting for a "lesser of two evils" situation, rather than "hey, that's a true leader, genuine man of the people" type of selection.

[BengalYankee]

(08-13-2023, 01:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Less corrupt than..  is still corrupt.  Hence the American public is still forced into voting for a "lesser of two evils" situation, rather than "hey, that's a true leader, genuine man of the people" type of selection.

[masonbengals fan]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/comer-says-kushner-crossed-the-line-of-ethics-with-saudi-deal/ar-AA1f9t8R

[BengalYankee]

(08-13-2023, 01:02 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'm with you (and many others) that when/if Hunter is convicted and does jail time so be it.  Do the crime, do the time.

[GMDino]

(08-13-2023, 01:29 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/comer-says-kushner-crossed-the-line-of-ethics-with-saudi-deal/ar-AA1f9t8R

Yes, yes...but it's not as bad as what Hunter did because, uh...Joe Biden?  And they STILL don't have it tied to Joe.

Quote:Comer, however, sought to draw a distinction between Trump’s family business dealings and President Biden’s family’s, which Comer suggested he viewed as more severe.


“I’ve been vocal that I think that what Kushner did crossed the line of ethics,” Comer said on CNN when asked to respond to Christie’s claim. “What Christie said — it happened after he left office. Still no excuse, Jake, but it happened after he left office. And Jared Kushner actually has a legitimate business. This money [to] the Bidens happened while Joe Biden was vice president while he was flying to those countries.”
[color=var(--neutral-foreground-rest)]

Comer says Kushner ‘crossed the line of ethics’ with Saudi deal Provided by The Hill
[/color]
Rep. James Comer Jr., R-Ky., Chair of the Oversight and Accountability Committee, attends a committee hearing with IRS whistleblowers, Wednesday, July 19, 2023, on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin)


Comer has been leading the Oversight panel’s probe into the Biden family and has secured testimony claiming Hunter Biden, the president’s son, leveraged his father’s position as vice president to sell the “illusion of access” to help in his personal business dealings. The panel has not found evidence, however, that President Biden committed any crime.


Kushner served his father-in-law in an official capacity as a senior adviser while Trump was president. He met with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman on behalf of the Trump administration and played a key role in defending the Saudi government after the U.S. concluded the crown prince had approved the killing of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi for criticism of the kingdom.



In 2022, the House Oversight panel, under Democratic leadership, launched a probe into the $2 billion investment Kushner secured from the Saudi Private Investment Fund (PIF), which is controlled by the crown prince.

[Belsnickel]

(08-13-2023, 01:50 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yes, yes...but it's not as bad as what Hunter did because, uh...Joe Biden?  And they STILL don't have it tied to Joe.

To be fair, there are distinctions to make. Until they can prove Joe Biden received any of the money, though, I would say it is all much ado about nothing. Kushner did only engage in something that is a time honored tradition in Washington: revolving door lobbying. There is not going to be anything done about Kushner, but it isn't because it is in reality less of an issue. The real reason nothing will be done is because every single one of the assholes in the position to do anything about it is hoping for something like Kushner got. It happens every single day.

I would also add that while Comer may say that, is he investigating Kushner? If he says Kushner crossed the line, then shouldn't that also be an issue for his committee? They are investigating Hunter Biden, a private citizen who has never worked in the White House. Why not Kushner, who was a senior official?

[StrictlyBiz]

(08-12-2023, 07:26 PM)Dill Wrote: Well now the Dems are accusing some Republicans of helping their President attempt a coup.
I would not be surprised if Republicans accuse Dems of that, in less than three years.

But I would be surprised if they had the level of evidence the Dems have now. 

I quite agree that "both sides" accuse each other of the same thing, yet I can't help but notice how often
the accusations are not equivalent in terms of documentable evidence. 

Also, once one realizes one has been "duped," what is it that one then sees beyond the "propaganda"? 

What changes? 

What should change is that you should see how you are being mislead by a media who's trying to gin up likes and clicks by playing with your emotions, rather than reporting the news. 

For example, here is how two different left leaning news sources reported on the 2016 and 2020 election results. 

2016: "House Democrats fail to muster support to challenge Trumps electoral college win"
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/no-trump-electoral-college-challenge-233294



2020: "147 Republicans who voted to overturn the election results"
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/07/us/elections/electoral-college-biden-objectors.html



Two articles from two different elections, with two different results, and two different Congresses doing EXACTLY the same thing....what they are allowed to do...object to states results.

But with two VERY different headlines with VERY different tones. And partisan suckers will fall for it 100% of the time.

I doubt you'll see the point though. You'll most likely reply with some lengthy diversionary post pointing to some insignificant difference as you gymnastically flip-flop your way to a "Democrat good. Republican bad" conclusion. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2023, 02:24 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: To be fair, there are distinctions to make. Until they can prove Joe Biden received any of the money, though, I would say it is all much ado about nothing. Kushner did only engage in something that is a time honored tradition in Washington: revolving door lobbying. There is not going to be anything done about Kushner, but it isn't because it is in reality less of an issue. The real reason nothing will be done is because every single one of the assholes in the position to do anything about it is hoping for something like Kushner got. It happens every single day.

I would also add that while Comer may say that, is he investigating Kushner? If he says Kushner crossed the line, then shouldn't that also be an issue for his committee? They are investigating Hunter Biden, a private citizen who has never worked in the White House. Why not Kushner, who was a senior official?

A GOP House isn't going to dig into Trump's admin any more than a Dem controlled House would do with Biden.  Yes, it's shitty and two faced.  It's also a fact.  I also don't think it's even remotely possible that Biden didn't know his son was trading off his name and using him to threaten people.  Word of stuff like that gets around.  Did Biden become personally involved on a criminal level?  I'd say it's likely, but I also agree with you that this has yet to be proven.  But this is going to be the norm going forward, everyone is fair game now.

[StrictlyBiz]

(08-13-2023, 02:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A GOP House isn't going to dig into Trump's admin any more than a Dem controlled House would do with Biden.  Yes, it's shitty and two faced.  It's also a fact.  I also don't think it's even remotely possible that Biden didn't know his son was trading off his name and using him to threaten people.  Word of stuff like that gets around.  Did Biden become personally involved on a criminal level?  I'd say it's likely, but I also agree with you that this has yet to be proven.  But this is going to be the norm going forward, everyone is fair game now.

This. Spot on post all the way around. 

You have to be really naive to believe that he didn't know what was going on and wasn't actively involved. 

The problem around these parts is, that if you say it, you're immediately hit with "Well what about Trump and Kushner?" and then diverted down a long and twisted and tiring road.  

[Belsnickel]

(08-13-2023, 02:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A GOP House isn't going to dig into Trump's admin any more than a Dem controlled House would do with Biden.  Yes, it's shitty and two faced.  It's also a fact. 

Oh, I know. I am just pointing this out for the benefit of those in this forum who have said their big problem with everything going on is the two-tiered justice being done. And I will be honest and say that I don't see any issues with the payment to Kushner (other than my usual problems with rich assholes) in a legal sense. On the surface I see no issues, but he 100% profited off of his official role in the government and there are people that need to reckon with that before they start throwing stones in their glass houses.

(08-13-2023, 02:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I also don't think it's even remotely possible that Biden didn't know his son was trading off his name and using him to threaten people.  Word of stuff like that gets around.  Did Biden become personally involved on a criminal level?  I'd say it's likely, but I also agree with you that this has yet to be proven.

I agree with all of this except I don't think it is likely he got involved at a criminal level. This isn't to say I don't think it is possible or even that everything Biden did was above board based on my moral views. I think that Biden has been in public service long enough to know how to play the game. He knows where the lines are not to cross which was honestly Trump's biggest problem. I'd love to see reforms in this area where we can take away these ways people find to game the system but again, it will never happen. Much like election reform we won't see any movement because it requires those in power to give up some of it, and that won't fly.

(08-13-2023, 02:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: But this is going to be the norm going forward, everyone is fair game now.

Well, any excuse to not actually do any legislating.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2023, 03:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh, I know. I am just pointing this out for the benefit of those in this forum who have said their big problem with everything going on is the two-tiered justice being done. And I will be honest and say that I don't see any issues with the payment to Kushner (other than my usual problems with rich assholes) in a legal sense. On the surface I see no issues, but he 100% profited off of his official role in the government and there are people that need to reckon with that before they start throwing stones in their glass houses.

Very true.

Quote:I agree with all of this except I don't think it is likely he got involved at a criminal level. This isn't to say I don't think it is possible or even that everything Biden did was above board based on my moral views. I think that Biden has been in public service long enough to know how to play the game. He knows where the lines are not to cross which was honestly Trump's biggest problem. I'd love to see reforms in this area where we can take away these ways people find to game the system but again, it will never happen. Much like election reform we won't see any movement because it requires those in power to give up some of it, and that won't fly.

I don't know.  Given the past precedent of letting the POTUS act with impunity I don't think it's at all unlikely that he got involved in that way.  This isn't the type of "sexy" crime that the US public can rally behind and demand action.  There's enough plausible deniability baked in to make his being held to account a virtual impossibility under previous standards, and that's where I completely agree with you about Biden's acumen based on his long public service.  I also agree with your last point and why you think it won't happen.

Quote:Well, any excuse to not actually do any legislating.

Why bother, it's not like it helps you get re-elected.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2023, 03:19 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: This. Spot on post all the way around. 

You have to be really naive to believe that he didn't know what was going on and wasn't actively involved. 

The problem around these parts is, that if you say it, you're immediately hit with "Well what about Trump and Kushner?" and then diverted down a long and twisted and tiring road.  

The sooner we can agree that 95% plus of these people are corrupt to the core the sooner we could start addressing it.  But we both know that won't happen, we have abortion, gun control and transgenderism to worry about.  No time for anything else!

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-09-2023, 10:22 PM)Dill Wrote: Did Archer say that JB discussed business during those 20 business calls?

He was just calling to say "i Love you Daddy!"...
Joe said no business was discussed so i take him at his word til proven otherwise.