Small town racism is alive and well

[GMDino]

...and running for office.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/23/marysville-michigan-city-council-candidate-jean-cramer-stuns-racist-comment/2094779001/

Quote:Keep city as white 'as much as possible,' council candidate says, stunning forum in Michigan

Much of the night focused on city development and park improvements, but that thread was momentarily marred with shock following a racist statement from political newcomer Jean Cramer.


“Keep Marysville a white community as much as possible,” said Cramer, one of five candidates vying for three open council seats in November.

Marysville City Council and mayoral candidates wait to give their opening remarks during a candidate forum Thursday, Aug. 22, 2019, at Marysville City Hall. (Photo: Brian Wells/Times Herald)

Cramer and the candidates were asked, “Do you believe the diversity of our community needs to be looked at, and if so, should we be more aggressive in attracting foreign-born citizens?”

It’d come more than an hour into the forum, and Radio First Station Manager Scott Shigley, who moderated the event, had cited population growth across the Great Lakes region between 2000 and 2015, half of which he said were foreign-born residents. 

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Cramer’s response, however, was the first of the group, and a brief guffaw fell over the council meeting room at City Hall before forum attendees heard from the other candidates.

After the forum, Shigley said the question was intended to spur talk over how the city markets itself and attracts talent. Marysville is about 50 miles northeast of Detroit.

Jean Cramer, a candidate for the Marysville City Council, gives her opening remarks during a candidate forum Thursday, Aug. 22, 2019, at Marysville City Hall. (Photo: Brian Wells/Times Herald)

Incumbent Councilman Paul Wessel said anyone who can find their way to Marysville “should be allowed to live in Marysville.” Council candidate Mike Deising paused before adding, “Just checking the calendar here and making sure it’s still 2019.”

Wayne Pyden, a former councilman who's running unopposed for mayor, and council candidate Shawn Winston also shared similar messages of surprise.

Winston, a teacher at Marysville High School, said he thought the numbers Shigley referenced should be looked at by the council to assess if the city was attracting "the best, the most qualified regardless of race."

“I don’t see how anybody has stopped diversity here in town that I am aware of. I don’t know off the top of my head what type of initiatives the city could take to get more diversity," Pyden added. "But in my own heart and my own mind and people around me, people here at the table, everybody’s welcome to Marysville.”

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Mayor Pro Tem Kathy Hayman said she took Cramer’s comments personally in her response.


“I don’t even know that I can talk yet, I’m so upset and shocked. My father was a hundred percent Syrian," she said. "So basically, what you’ve said is that my father and his family had no business to be in this community.”

Marysville City Council candidate Mike Deising, left, listens to Kathleen Hayman give her opening remarks during a candidate forum Thursday, Aug. 22, 2019, at Marysville City Hall. Hayman, a current councilmember, is hoping to be reelected. (Photo: Brian Wells/Times Herald)

Hayman's late father Joseph Johns served 55 years as an elected Marysville official. The council meeting room, where Thursday’s forum was held, is named for him.


“My son-in-law is a black man and I have bi-racial grandchildren,” she told Cramer. “And I take this very personally what you’ve said, and I know that there’s nothing I can say that’s going to change your mind. ... We just need to have more kindness — that’s it.”


After the forum, Cramer was asked by the Times Herald if she wanted to clarify her response.


“As long as, how can I put this? What Kathy Hayman doesn’t know is that her family is in the wrong,” she said. “(A) husband and wife need to be the same race. Same thing with kids. That’s how it’s been from the beginning of, how can I say, when God created the heaven and the earth. He created Adam and Eve at the same time. But as far as me being against blacks, no I’m not.”

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Mayor Dan Damman, who isn’t running for re-election in the city, condemned Cramer’s comments in a statement of his own following the forum.


"The racist comments by the City Council candidate at the Marysville city candidate(s) forum were as vile as they were jaw-dropping,” he said in an email. “It must be noted that this person has declared herself a City Council candidate for the 
November 2019 election but has never served on City Council for the city of Marysville.


“Mrs. Cramer’s disturbing and disgusting ideology is flatly rejected by me, our entire City Council, all of city administration, and our employees. The candidate forum was to be a mechanism to learn about the candidates and their viewpoints, thus empowering our electorate to make an informed decision before voting. The only positive result from this clear expression of overt and unapologetic racism is that this candidate’s views were put on display before our voters go the polls in November."

Is she an outlier?  Probably.  But somehow in 2019 these people still exist and it is sad.  It's still a free* country and people are obviously allowed to have their backwards thoughts and ideas.   But she'll get votes.  Heck she might win one of three seats.  



*some taxes and fees may apply.

[Arturo Bandini]

I don't understand why people keep giving 80 years people for politics they are totally unaware of the world they're living in and since they have about 5-10 years to live, this is not their problem anymore.

[Dill]

(08-24-2019, 08:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: Is she an outlier?  Probably.  But somehow in 2019 these people still exist and it is sad.  It's still a free* country and people are obviously allowed to have their backwards thoughts and ideas.   But she'll get votes.  Heck she might win one of three seats.  

*some taxes and fees may apply.

“As long as, how can I put this? What Kathy Hayman doesn’t know is that her family is in the wrong,” she said. “(A) husband and wife need to be the same race. Same thing with kids. That’s how it’s been from the beginning of, how can I say, when God created the heaven and the earth. He created Adam and Eve at the same time. But as far as me being against blacks, no I’m not.”

Fake news media trying to make her seem racist when she is not against blacks.

Just having different views doesn't make you "racist." lol

No mention of her party.

[CJD]

(08-24-2019, 12:41 PM)Dill Wrote: “As long as, how can I put this? What Kathy Hayman doesn’t know is that her family is in the wrong,” she said. “(A) husband and wife need to be the same race. Same thing with kids. That’s how it’s been from the beginning of, how can I say, when God created the heaven and the earth. He created Adam and Eve at the same time. But as far as me being against blacks, no I’m not.”

Fake news media trying to make her seem racist when she is not against blacks.  

Just having different views doesn't make you "racist." lol

No mention of her party.

At local levels like this party is less relevant, so it isn't always reported the way it is at State and Federal levels. At least that is my general understanding.

Even searching for it now, there is not really any mention of her party anywhere I look.

The fact that she cites God as her reasoning for opposing interracial marriage makes me believe she is likely a Republican but, hey, we can't know for sure, right?


I do think this is just more proof that you can't really self report on your level of racism.

The words "I'm not a racist" mean literally nothing. It's about actions and how those actions affect and/or are perceived by others, especially those you are speaking/acting for or against.

In this lady's warped mind, being against interracial marriage and wanting to keep her community white isn't racist. It's just maintaining the natural order of things. For her, races should not be commingled and that isn't racism, it's just fact. 

Or at least that is what it appears to be, based on her words. I can't say for certain that she's a racist. But she sure sounds like one.

[*michaelsean*]

I would say the title is a bit misleading. She has not been elected to anything, and every person denounced her for the statement.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

So much false doctrine taught.

God has never said not to mix race. Ruth was an Egyptian and Boaz was Hebrew, Rahab married Salmon and they were mixed race as well and both are in the line of Christ.

These people need to die off.

[GMDino]

(08-26-2019, 10:35 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I would say the title is a bit misleading.  She has not been elected to anything, and every person denounced her for the statement.

Which title?

The thread title says "small town racism is alive and well" and it is.

The article says "candidate" which she is.

We won't know if "every person" denounced her until the votes are counted I guess.

Denounced or not she is a racist who is running for office unashamedly. 

[*michaelsean*]

(08-26-2019, 11:12 AM)GMDino Wrote: Which title?

The thread title says "small town racism is alive and well" and it is.

The article says "candidate" which she is.

We won't know if "every person" denounced her until the votes are counted I guess.

Denounced or not she is a racist who is running for office unashamedly. 

One person doesn't make small town racism alive and well.  Nobody else there agreed with her.  Where is the alive and well part?  Based on the story as we have it, it would be just the opposite.

[GMDino]

(08-26-2019, 11:24 AM)michaelsean Wrote: One person doesn't make small town racism alive and well.  Nobody else there agreed with her.  Where is the alive and well part?  Based on the story as we have it, it would be just the opposite.

Someone running for office says that out loud and the defends it as "not racist".  Like I said, we'll have to count the votes and see if anyone agrees with her.  Racist get quite a few votes unfortunately.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-26-2019, 11:52 AM)GMDino Wrote: Someone running for office says that out loud and the defends it as "not racist".  Like I said, we'll have to count the votes and see if anyone agrees with her.  Racist get quite a few votes unfortunately.

So we won't know until the vote but you feel comfortable claiming it now? One person says one thing, eight people say another, and the one is the representative?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-26-2019, 12:01 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So we won't know until the vote but you feel comfortable claiming it now?  One person says one thing, eight people say another, and the one is the representative?

The man has a narrative to sell.  Don't trip him up with stuff like logic and facts. 


I can also tell you for a fact that there are zero racists in Los Angeles, so maybe GM is on to something here.

[GMDino]

(08-26-2019, 12:01 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So we won't know until the vote but you feel comfortable claiming it now?  One person says one thing, eight people say another, and the one is the representative?

If someone feels bold enough to say it in a public forum, yep.

She's just another example of small town racism.

Good to speak out against all of it IMHO.  Just like the eight others did.

Point out that small town minds, with small town racist thoughts should be denounced....whether it is one or two or ten.

[GMDino]

(08-26-2019, 12:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The man has a narrative to sell.  Don't trip him up with stuff like logic and facts. 


I can also tell you for a fact that there are zero racists in Los Angeles, so maybe GM is on to something here.

Lot's of racists everywhere unfortunately.

Some will speak out against all of them, some are willing to ignore it when there "is only one". 

"narrative"

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-26-2019, 12:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: Lot's of racists everywhere unfortunately.

Some will speak out against all of them, some are willing to ignore it when there "is only one". 

"narrative"

Seems to me that no one ignored her in your OP and that she was condemned for her statements.  Consequently the point of your thread is unclear, unless it was an attempt to paint rural America as an inherently racist place.  It appears this is your agenda, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask what the actual intent of the thread was.

As an aside, a women spoke before the LA County Board of Supervisors recently and went on a racist tirade in front of the whole auditorium.  I suppose that's an indicator of how dreadfully racist liberal Los Angeles is.

[GMDino]

(08-26-2019, 01:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Seems to me that no one ignored her in your OP and that she was condemned for her statements.  Consequently the point of your thread is unclear, unless it was an attempt to paint rural America as an inherently racist place.  It appears this is your agenda, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask what the actual intent of the thread was.

As an aside, a women spoke before the LA County Board of Supervisors recently and went on a racist tirade in front of the whole auditorium.  I suppose that's an indicator of how dreadfully racist liberal Los Angeles is.

It's an indicator that there are still lots of racist people and they should be shut down when they come out in the light.  Share the story/link please.

[CJD]

I think the main takeaway from this article isn't that racism is alive and well in small towns, necessarily. I think the main takeaway is that self evaluating your own racism is not a reliable gauge of how racist you actually are.

[GMDino]

(08-26-2019, 02:24 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think the main takeaway from this article isn't that racism is alive and well in small towns, necessarily. I think the main takeaway is that self evaluating your own racism is not a reliable gauge of how racist you actually are.

That's a fair takeaway also.

But I maintain that this woman is just another example of small minded thinking.

[Benton]

(08-24-2019, 09:26 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I don't understand why people keep giving 80 years people for politics they are totally unaware of the world they're living in and since they have about 5-10 years to live, this is not their problem anymore.

Often, here, they're the only ones with the time and resources for public service. 

When I covered local governments, I'd have put the average age of any of my communities around 70. Even at state offices, you're still looking at around 50-60 in many states.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-26-2019, 02:15 PM)GMDino Wrote: It's an indicator that there are still lots of racist people and they should be shut down when they come out in the light.

I agree, which is why I appreciated that the HoR condemned Ilan Omar's antisemitism.

 

Quote:Share the story/link please.

Saw it in person, I don't think it made the news.  Believe me or don't, it doesn't change anything.

[Dill]

(08-26-2019, 10:18 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: At local levels like this party is less relevant, so it isn't always reported the way it is at State and Federal levels. At least that is my general understanding.

Even searching for it now, there is not really any mention of her party anywhere I look.

The fact that she cites God as her reasoning for opposing interracial marriage makes me believe she is likely a Republican but, hey, we can't know for sure, right?

I do think this is just more proof that you can't really self report on your level of racism.

The words "I'm not a racist" mean literally nothing. It's about actions and how those actions affect and/or are perceived by others, especially those you are speaking/acting for or against.

In this lady's warped mind, being against interracial marriage and wanting to keep her community white isn't racist. It's just maintaining the natural order of things. For her, races should not be commingled and that isn't racism, it's just fact. 

Or at least that is what it appears to be, based on her words. I can't say for certain that she's a racist. But she sure sounds like one.

LOL I can say for certain she is a racist.

There is a long tradition of bible-based segregation and this woman was probably raised in it.  Anti-miscegenation laws were prevalent in the South until the early '60s.

I don't think we can exclude self-reporting as a factor, just because this person doesn't seem good at it. But I agree with you and Dino, it can be problematic, and doesn't trump racist statements or behavior. Racism is still as racism does.

If someone says what Ms. Cramer said, and claims not to be a racist, it is likely she/he would also not see "racism" in many of Trump's actions either. Not a racist bone in his body. 

Dem (and Repub) claims his actions and statements are racist would then more likely just appear expressions of "hate," not evidence-based judgments.