Sorry this happened in your city

[fredtoast]

(10-30-2018, 12:05 PM)treee Wrote: I don't know. I can definitively say that Obama never advocated attacking our fellow countrymen, and therefor mentally unwell individuals didn't become incited by him to attack our fellow countrymen.

Rep.

[*Nately120*]

(10-30-2018, 12:05 PM)treee Wrote: I don't know. I can definitively say that Obama never advocated attacking our fellow countrymen, and therefor mentally unwell individuals didn't become incited by him to attack our fellow countrymen.

Trump advocates violence amongst us and also makes it easier for the mentally ill to buy firearms.  But linking that sort of stuff to real life events is just devil talk. 

Everything is fine.  I'm already thinking and praying over the next isolated incident .

[GMDino]

(10-30-2018, 06:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump advocates violence amongst us and also makes it easier for the mentally ill to buy firearms.  But linking that sort of stuff to real life events is just devil talk. 

Everything is fine.  I'm already thinking and praying over the next isolated incident .

It's none of that...it's the media.  Trump blamed them (again) at (another) rally last night.

[GMDino]

Yesterday on NPR I heard the POTUS say...out loud...that the media didn't blame Obama when the black church got shot up. 

Seriously.

He's so disconnected it's borderline delusional.

[jj22]

(10-30-2018, 11:30 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Because the narrative going around now is the Evil of the current administration is fueling this and if you don't act to remove it, you are complicit with this evil. Did Obama's evil fuel Dylan Roof? 

Really Dylan Roof? You want to go there? We know what fueled him. And who they support.

[Belsnickel]

(11-01-2018, 10:01 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yesterday on NPR I heard the POTUS say...out loud...that the media didn't blame Obama when the black church got shot up. 

Seriously.

He's so disconnected it's borderline delusional.

One of the biggest issues is that the alt-right/white nationalist crowd thinks Trump is on their side. They think he is one of them. I don't think he is, but that is what they believe and it gives them fuel.

[GMDino]

(11-01-2018, 12:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: One of the biggest issues is that the alt-right/white nationalist crowd thinks Trump is on their side. They think he is one of them. I don't think he is, but that is what they believe and it gives them fuel.

The synagogue shooter was actually mad that Trump didn't go far enough for him.

They're sick people. 

But he doesn't say much to discourage them most of the time.

[Benton]

(10-30-2018, 11:30 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Because the narrative going around now is the Evil of the current administration is fueling this and if you don't act to remove it, you are complicit with this evil. Did Obama's evil fuel Dylan Roof? 

Isn't that the entire approach with getting evangelicals on board with a mostly anti-Christian far right platform? By saying if you don't side with the right — who is pro-life — then you're complicit with evil.

They leverage that into getting evangelicals to support pro-greed, anti-charity, pro-violence, pro-exclusion policies. 

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2018, 01:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: The synagogue shooter was actually mad that Trump didn't go far enough for him.

VICE Network had a reporter embedded with the white supremacist group that was organizing the infamous march in Charlottesville.  I remember one scene where the leader told the VICE reporter that they loved how Trump had given their position legitimacy, but they were very disappointed that he "gave his daughter to a Jew."

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2018, 12:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: One of the biggest issues is that the alt-right/white nationalist crowd thinks Trump is on their side. They think he is one of them. I don't think he is, but that is what they believe and it gives them fuel.

They believe he is 100% on their side but he just can't come out and admit it.  For example they knew he had worked with David Duke, but understood why he would lie about knowing who Duke was.  The fact that Trump lied about knowing Duke was actually a good sign to them.  It makes them feel like he is secretly helping them advance their agenda.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2018, 10:01 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yesterday on NPR I heard the POTUS say...out loud...that the media didn't blame Obama when the black church got shot up. 

Seriously.

He's so disconnected it's borderline delusional.

But his base eats that stuff up.

[fredtoast]

(10-30-2018, 11:30 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Did Obama's evil fuel Dylan Roof? 

Did Obama tell Roof there were some "good people" on his side?

Did Obama welcome the Confederate Battle Flag at his rallies?

Did Obama work with David Duke and then try and deny he knew who he was?

[Belsnickel]

(11-01-2018, 01:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: The synagogue shooter was actually mad that Trump didn't go far enough for him.

They're sick people. 

But he doesn't say much to discourage them most of the time.

Yeah, the whole situation with Ivanka and Jared makes it interesting for them. What it boils down to is a difference in opinions that can be found in both Jewish communities and white nationalists.

Some in the Jewish community see support for Zionism/Israel as the definitive part of supporting their community. Because of this, they support Trump. It should be noted that Zionism as well as the movement for Tikkun Olam were really rooted in American Judaism. Some are willing to overlook the complete disregard for the notion of Tikkun Olam and the large white nationalist base he holds because of his support of Israel, which they see as stronger than previous presidents'. Some say that without strongly denouncing the white nationalist base he has he is not supporting Jews. It's a very interesting conversation that I heard about on The Daily the other day.

In the white nationalist camp, you also have two opinions on this. Trump's support of Israel is seen by some as a negative as it is something being done to favor Jews. But a large chunk see it as evidence for Trump being on their side. There are white nationalists that want Israel to exist, because it is a model for them. They want a white ethno-state, and that has no place for Jews in their mind. Israel exists and enacts policies to be a Jewish ethno-state. So they see Israel as a model as well as a dumping ground for the Jews in the US.

It really is a very complicated thing going on.

(11-01-2018, 02:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: VICE Network had a reporter embedded with the white supremacist group that was organizing the infamous march in Charlottesville.  I remember one scene where the leader told the VICE reporter that they loved how Trump had given their position legitimacy, but they were very disappointed that he "gave his daughter to a Jew."

In a twisted way, Chris "Crying Nazi" Cantwell gave an example of something that we want on the left: people to stop demanding ideological purity tests. He was happy with Trump because Trump provided him something closer to his ideology than any other candidate did. Sure he had problems with it, but he supports him.

We have a problem with that right now on the left side of the spectrum and people need to get over it.

[BengalHawk62]

(11-01-2018, 02:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Did Obama tell Roof there were some "good people" on his side?

Did Obama welcome the Confederate Battle Flag at his rallies?

Did Obama work with David Duke and then try and deny he knew who he was?

But Benghazi......

Lock her up!
Lock her up!
Lock her up!

[*bfine32*]

(11-01-2018, 02:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Did Obama tell Roof there were some "good people" on his side?

Did Obama welcome the Confederate Battle Flag at his rallies?

Did Obama work with David Duke and then try and deny he knew who he was?

No to your specific questions.But he did say there were good people on the side that was motivation for Micah Johnston to kill 5 Dallas Policemen. Were they responsible?

Did Trump push an anti-Semitic message?

Has Trump ever advocated killing anyone?

Folks are going to always try to make a tragedy into something that promotes their Political Bias, but Left's new mantra is to consider the right Evil. Hell, Corey Booker flat out said it. And now many feel they are doing their part to combat Evil when all they are doing in fanning the flames. 

[GMDino]

(11-01-2018, 02:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, the whole situation with Ivanka and Jared makes it interesting for them. What it boils down to is a difference in opinions that can be found in both Jewish communities and white nationalists.

Some in the Jewish community see support for Zionism/Israel as the definitive part of supporting their community. Because of this, they support Trump. It should be noted that Zionism as well as the movement for Tikkun Olam were really rooted in American Judaism. Some are willing to overlook the complete disregard for the notion of Tikkun Olam and the large white nationalist base he holds because of his support of Israel, which they see as stronger than previous presidents'. Some say that without strongly denouncing the white nationalist base he has he is not supporting Jews. It's a very interesting conversation that I heard about on The Daily the other day.

In the white nationalist camp, you also have two opinions on this. Trump's support of Israel is seen by some as a negative as it is something being done to favor Jews. But a large chunk see it as evidence for Trump being on their side. There are white nationalists that want Israel to exist, because it is a model for them. They want a white ethno-state, and that has no place for Jews in their mind. Israel exists and enacts policies to be a Jewish ethno-state. So they see Israel as a model as well as a dumping ground for the Jews in the US.

It really is a very complicated thing going on.


In a twisted way, Chris "Crying Nazi" Cantwell gave an example of something that we want on the left: people to stop demanding ideological purity tests. He was happy with Trump because Trump provided him something closer to his ideology than any other candidate did. Sure he had problems with it, but he supports him.

We have a problem with that right now on the left side of the spectrum and people need to get over it.

I just have a hard time with "His son in law and grandchildren are Jewish so he can't be a...." fill in the blank.

Your points as the complication of different versions of white nationalists makes that a little more clear.

As an aside here is an exchange from Facebook today.

I kind of summed up my feelings about Trump being in Pittsburgh and why there were so many that didn't want him there.

(Joe is a couple years older than me and went to the same college.)

[Belsnickel]

(11-01-2018, 02:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks are going to always try to make a tragedy into something that promotes their Political Bias, but Left's new mantra is to consider the right Evil. Hell, Corey Booker flat out said it. And now many feel they are doing their part to combat Evil when all they are doing in fanning the flames. 

So nothing about the right calling the left evil? That has, after all, been a major talking point on the right for decades, as well. Hell, Hannity has a book called "Deliver Us From Evil" and one of those evils is liberalism.

[*bfine32*]

(11-01-2018, 02:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So nothing about the right calling the left evil? That has, after all, been a major talking point on the right for decades, as well. Hell, Hannity has a book called "Deliver Us From Evil" and one of those evils is liberalism.

I should have said both sides do it..........wait a minute, I did when I said folks are. Just left the whataboutism to others. 

My point is the Left is now pushing the agenda that the Right is Evil, do you agree with that? 

[Belsnickel]

(11-01-2018, 03:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I should have said both sides do it..........wait a minute, I did when I said folks are. Just left the whataboutism to others. 

My point is the Left is now pushing the agenda that the Right is Evil, do you agree with that? 

To be sincere, I've not heard that agenda being pushed on the left. But I don't tend to listen to people on the left that would push that sort of thing, so I may just be ignorant of it.

And you really didn't say both sides do it. You said that about "folks are going to always try to make a tragedy into something that promotes their Political Bias," but your sentence continued with: "but Left's new mantra is to consider the right Evil." That separates it out, indicating this is something above and beyond that the left does that the right does not. Are you now saying that the right is also guilty of pushing the agenda that the left is evil?

[*bfine32*]

(11-01-2018, 03:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: To be sincere, I've not heard that agenda being pushed on the left. But I don't tend to listen to people on the left that would push that sort of thing, so I may just be ignorant of it.

And you really didn't say both sides do it. You said that about "folks are going to always try to make a tragedy into something that promotes their Political Bias," but your sentence continued with: "but Left's new mantra is to consider the right Evil." That separates it out, indicating this is something above and beyond that the left does that the right does not. Are you now saying that the right is also guilty of pushing the agenda that the left is evil?

Ok, let's go to a semantics debate to try to assert I was only referring to the Left when I said folks. You did notice the second part of the sentence you quoted started with "but" not "and"? So of course I was talking about both the left and right when I said folks. 

To be sincere I don't tend to listen to Shawn Hannity. I tend to listen a little more closely to our elected officials, including a sitting Senator. To be honest I have zero idea how anyone could compare words stated by a biased journalist to an elected official.