Stand Your Ground Law

[BmorePat87]

Here's the guy who pulls guns on teens that he thinks drive too slow, break checks moms with young kids in their cars, and tells companies that they're lucky he didn't blow the head off their drivers for how they parked.

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2018, 12:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This thread is interesting in many ways.  One of the most interesting is that the message isn't important if you don't like the poster.  Apparently advising people not to escalate a verbal confrontation to a physical one is bad advice when it comes from someone you don't like.

In my opinion the confrontation had already been escalated when the shooter violated the personal space of the woman.  At that point she was justified in feeling threatened with "physical violence", and that is generally what the law recognizes.  You don't have to wait for a person to punch or stab you (or any threatened person) before taking physical defensive action.


I don't care who the member is telling me not to defend my woman if a guy is in her facing harassing her.  I am not going to just wait for him to hit her before I do something.  And since he was not acting reasonable by getting in the woman's face I have no reason to believe that he will respond to reasonable requests.

[*Nately120*]

(08-13-2018, 03:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Here's the guy who pulls guns on teens that he thinks drive too slow, break checks moms with young kids in their cars, and tells companies that they're lucky he didn't blow the head off their drivers for how they parked.

Seems like this guy was just dying for an opportunity to "defend himself" but I don't read minds and I wasn't there.  Anyways, this just reminds me of threads where people point out how much gun violence there is on the southside of Chicago.  Well duh, getting pushed leads to getting shot so what do you expect?

Some people just have to do a whole hell of a lot more "defending" than others.  Oh well.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2018, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In my opinion the confrontation had already been escalated when the shooter violated the personal space of the woman.  At that point she was justified in feeling threatened with "physical violence", and that is generally what the law recognizes.  You don't have to wait for a person to punch or stab you (or any threatened person) before taking physical defensive action.

Not being privy to the evidence you can't state whether she was in reasonable fear of imminent physical violence.  Regardless, and as a DPD I'm borderline ashamed you won't admit this, removing yourself from the altercation is the smart course of action.

Quote:I don't care who the member is telling me not to defend my woman if a guy is in her facing harassing her.  I am not going to just wait for him to hit her before I do something.  And since he was not acting reasonable by getting in the woman's face I have no reason to believe that he will respond to reasonable requests.

Removing yourself from the altercation requires absolutely no response from the aggressor to "reasonable requests".  What I'm advocating/suggesting requires no acquiescence from the aggressor at all.  Remove yourself and your family from the situation, problem solved.  I do appreciate your tough guy stance though, very much in keeping with your arguments in other threads.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/us/stand-your-ground-florida-shooting-charges/index.html

Looks like some people are going to have to find a new narrative. Glad to hear it personally.

[Bengalzona]

Yeah, I used to think being pushed down by someone was not cause to pull a gun and kill them. But now with these Stand Your Ground laws, I feel differently. Somebody bumps you in a crowded hallway? Pop a cap in their ass. Somebody yells at you for taking two spaces when you parked? Plug the *****. See someone with a hoody strolling through your hood at night? Plug the fool.

I am convinced that this will make for a better world once we start offing all of the people who scare us. Just remember, though: Shoot first. The dude who shoots first is always the good guy.

And if you have stock in a firearms company, all the better! :andy:

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2018, 06:35 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Yeah, I used to think being pushed down by someone was not cause to pull a gun and kill them. But now with these Stand Your Ground laws, I feel differently. Somebody bumps you in a crowded hallway? Pop a cap in their ass. Somebody yells at you for taking two spaces when you parked? Plug the *****. See someone with a hoody strolling through your hood at night? Plug the fool.

I am convinced that this will make for a better world once we start offing all of the people who scare us. Just remember, though: Shoot first. The dude who shoots first is always the good guy.

And if you have stock in a firearms company, all the better!  :andy:

Someone didn't read the whole thread before posting.  

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2018, 06:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not being privy to the evidence you can't state whether she was in reasonable fear of imminent physical violence.

I saw the video.  I read the info that was available.  That is the exact same evidence that would be presented at trial.  Of course there may be a lot more, but based on what I have seen and read it is pretty clear.

(08-13-2018, 06:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Remove yourself and your family from the situation, problem solved. 

I am aware of many cases where the person trying to remove himself from a situation still got injured.

[*bfine32*]

(08-13-2018, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In my opinion the confrontation had already been escalated when the shooter violated the personal space of the woman.  At that point she was justified in feeling threatened with "physical violence", and that is generally what the law recognizes.  You don't have to wait for a person to punch or stab you (or any threatened person) before taking physical defensive action.


I don't care who the member is telling me not to defend my woman if a guy is in her facing harassing her.  I am not going to just wait for him to hit her before I do something.  And since he was not acting reasonable by getting in the woman's face I have no reason to believe that he will respond to reasonable requests.

Seems like your opinion is based on assumption. If you watch the Video that pat recently posted you see dude standing a good distance from the vehicle and appears to be indicating that she roll down the window, the next clip it appears the woman has exited the vehicle. Of course we cannot tell if the guy got more aggressive during the cut away, but he has advanced no closer to the vehicle. 

It appears you just want to throw in "getting in her face" to excuse your assertion that escalating this situation was the right move. 

[*bfine32*]

(08-13-2018, 06:32 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/us/stand-your-ground-florida-shooting-charges/index.html

Looks like some people are going to have to find a new narrative.  Glad to hear it personally.

From what we know; manslaughter appears to be the correct charge. I am glad they did not try to overcharge. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2018, 06:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am aware of many cases where the person trying to remove himself from a situation still got injured.

I'm aware of many cases where a person was robbed after being asked what time it was.  You didn't seem to care about that though. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2018, 06:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: From what we know; manslaughter appears to be the correct charge. I am glad they did not try to overcharge. 

Completely agree, which means he will most likely be convicted.  No Mosby overcharging to please a mob and no Zimmerman overcharging to virtue signal.  The law being applied as the law is written, rather refreshing.

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2018, 07:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm aware of many cases where a person was robbed after being asked what time it was.  You didn't seem to care about that though. 

I don't know what your point is?  Why are you being so obtuse?

My point is that when a person is harassing another person turning your back on that person may not be smart.  It just might get you struck in the back.

So your claim that just trying to "remove yourself" would mean there would never be any problems is just not true.

Have no idea what this has to do with a guy asking  what time it is.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2018, 07:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know what your point is?  Why are you being so obtuse?

Yeah, you're not using that word correctly.

Quote:My point is that when a person is harassing another person turning your back on that person may not be smart.  It just might get you struck in the back.

Extricating yourself from a situation does not require "turning your back" on the aggressor.

Quote:So your claim that just trying to "remove yourself" would mean there would never be any problems is just not true.

Never said, "there would never be any problems".  This is why your posts have little to no credibility.  You deliberately misstate your opponents positions because you planted your flag in quicksand, once again.  I said extricating yourself from the situation is the smart and safest thing to do.  If you're looking for absolutes stick to religion.

Quote:Have no idea what this has to do with a guy asking  what time it is.

Of course you don't. 

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2018, 06:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems like your opinion is based on assumption. If you watch the Video that pat recently posted you see dude standing a good distance from the vehicle and appears to be indicating that she roll down the window, the next clip it appears the woman has exited the vehicle. Of course we cannot tell if the guy got more aggressive during the cut away, but he has advanced no closer to the vehicle. 

It appears you just want to throw in "getting in her face" to excuse your assertion that escalating this situation was the right move. 

My opinion is based on the fact that a witness went into the store and said that there was a man harassing a woman in the parking lot and when the victim came out of the store the shooter was in his girlfriend's face.

Justified defense is not "escalation".

If you kill a burglar in your house who does not attack you first do you consider that "escalating" the situation?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2018, 07:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you kill a burglar in your house who does not attack you first do you consider that "escalating" the situation?

Worst analogy ever.  Do try again.

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2018, 06:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  Remove yourself and your family from the situation, problem solved. 

(08-13-2018, 07:11 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Never said, "there would never be any problems".  This is why your posts have little to no credibility.  You deliberately misstate your opponents positions because you planted your flag in quicksand, once again.  I said extricating yourself from the situation is the smart and safest thing to do.  If you're looking for absolutes stick to religion.

Oh my god.  I am so embarrassed.  I twisted "problem solved" into "no problems".  How stupid of me to think that when a problem is "solved" that means there is no longer a problem.

Now my credibility is destroyed.  What am I going to do?

Please accept my apologies for not knowing that when you say a problem is solved you actually mean it could still be a problem.

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2018, 07:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Worst analogy ever.  Do try again.

Actually it is a great analogy.  People are justified in killing an intruder who is not attacking them because the situation creates a reasonable fear of imminent physical danger.

So what is your answer to that question?  Is shooting an intruder in your home who is not attacking you "escalating the situation".  

Would you shoot the intruder or instead try to get your wife and kids out of the house?

[*bfine32*]

(08-13-2018, 07:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My opinion is based on the fact that a witness went into the store and said that there was a man harassing a woman in the parking lot and when the victim came out of the store the shooter was in his girlfriend's face.

Justified defense is not "escalation".

If you kill a burglar in your house who does not attack you first do you consider that "escalating" the situation?

Apparently we are not watching the same video. At no time do we see the dude in the girls face. He is a good distance from the car door and the female exits (look enough room to open her door) the vehicle once the father starts approaching. 

As to the question posed: I suppose it depends on the situation. We've seen stories in this very forum where a person has lured someone into their house to burgle only to have a reason to shoot them. Not sure what it has to do with the situation at hand. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-13-2018, 07:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually it is a great analogy.  People are justified in killing an intruder who is not attacking them because the situation creates a reasonable fear of imminent physical danger.

In your private residence as opposed to a public parking lot?  Seriously, are you trying to be a joke?