State of our Union

[*Nately120*]

(03-02-2022, 12:46 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-biden-misses-the-moment-in-his-state-of-the-union-address-white-house-congress-putin-russia-energy-11646193813?st=cufd1rhpf9k8k1g&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

His middle of the road days are pretty much over in my opinion. They only resurface when he speaks like last night but his actions speak louder than his words.

In all fairness "the middle" probably needs to be remapped given the shift the political right has taken in the Trump era. 

[basballguy]

(03-02-2022, 01:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: In all fairness "the middle" probably needs to be remapped given the shift the political right has taken in the Trump era. 

This goes both ways :)

20 years ago the left would've never forced entire nations to shut down over a flulike illness.  

The middle is still the middle...we just have more visible extreme rights and lefts.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-02-2022, 12:50 PM)Dill Wrote: A woman has been on the court since 1981.

(03-02-2022, 01:09 PM)basballguy Wrote: I strongly encourage you to start reading the entire flow of a thread before commenting (in the future).  

I have to give Dill credit, this was clever and you didn't get it initially.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

I have to agree with the point raised earlier, that speech read like a point by point addressing of "here's what our polling says." Of course, Joe can't help himself as a Dem and blames gun ownership for the rising violence across the nation. I'm sure it's guns right? Not the "progressive" DA's letting criminals get away with, sometime literally, murder, the media coddling, even lionizing, criminals or law enforcement being painted, by the same people, as racist upholders of white supremacy who just can't wait to murder a "person of color." No, Joe, of course it's the guns.

[*Nately120*]

(03-02-2022, 01:18 PM)basballguy Wrote: This goes both ways :)

20 years ago the left would've never forced entire nations to shut down over a flulike illness.  

The middle is still the middle...we just have more visible extreme rights and lefts.  

20 years seems like a lifetime in political terms.  Covid in the Bush or Obama era?  Who knows what goes on and how people react. 

I doubt it would have been the bi partisan pissing contest it was these days.  


What I really meant about the middle is that some of the biggest GOP talking points don't fit on our political scale.  

[Dill]

(03-01-2022, 07:07 PM)basballguy Wrote: rawrrawrrawarconservativessuckrawrrawrrawr

Of all the things you could possibly gripe about this is what you're hanging your hat on?  If that's all you got to this question then I'd say the state of the union is not bad.  (No that's not how I feel  I'm just calling out the laziness in your argument)

Unemployment is down
Wages are up
There's a war going on that we get to watch from the sidelines for a change (so far)
We're a short time away from having a black judge on the supreme court

There are plenty of things to ***** about but also plenty to be excited about.  

I agree with the latter part of your post ("Unemployment is down . . . " etc.) 

But there is still plenty of reason to be concerned about the Trump-led GOP. 

First off there is the fact that in many swing states any claim of election fraud can send the selection of electors to GOP legislatures. 
Then there is the continuing skulduggery of new voting laws designed to restrict mail in ballots and polling sites. Tens of millions believe
Trump's claim the election was stolen and they are working day and night to secure superminority control of all three branches of government. 

[Dill]

(03-02-2022, 01:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have to give Dill credit, this was clever and you didn't get it initially.

I think B-guy is new here. (And welcome!) 

He will pick up on our sense of humor soon.

[*Nately120*]

(03-02-2022, 01:41 PM)Dill Wrote: I agree with the latter part of your post ("Unemployment is down . . . " etc.) 

But there is still plenty of reason to be concerned about the Trump-led GOP. 

First off there is the fact that in many swing states any claim of election fraud can send the selection of electors to GOP legislatures. 
Then there is the continuing skulduggery of new voting laws designed to restrict mail in ballots and polling sites. Tens of millions believe
Trump's claim the election was stolen and they are working day and night to secure superminority control of all three branches of government. 

That's what is troubling to me.  The world is watching an unchallenged fake tough guy in Putin send his country into ruin while many Americans simultaneously love the idea of our own country tacitly installing a single leader of our own. 

This seems to be a learning moment many are rejecting.  

[basballguy]

(03-02-2022, 01:41 PM)Dill Wrote: I agree with the latter part of your post ("Unemployment is down . . . " etc.) 

But there is still plenty of reason to be concerned about the Trump-led GOP. 

First off there is the fact that in many swing states any claim of election fraud can send the selection of electors to GOP legislatures. 
Then there is the continuing skulduggery of new voting laws designed to restrict mail in ballots and polling sites. Tens of millions believe
Trump's claim the election was stolen and they are working day and night to secure superminority control of all three branches of government. 

Where you say restrict others may say improve.  It's no secret one side heavily benefits from having relaxed voting laws.  It has nothing to do with being "Trump led".  Once you get past the flag waving nut jobs in Alabama, many conservatives would feel the same way regardless of who's primary on the ticket.  We shouldn't be making it easy for non citizens to vote in our elections.  

In Dallas you can get away with showing a utility bill as identification to vote.  That's just nonsense.  Over 2 million illegal immigrants crossed the border in 2021...numbers like that swing elections.  

I'm not going to get into voter fraud because that's one of those topics where no matter what side of the fence someone is on, they are not changing their mind.  

[Bengalzona]

(03-02-2022, 01:09 PM)basballguy Wrote: I strongly encourage you to start reading the entire flow of a thread before commenting (in the future).  

A person not paying attention to the flow of the comments has been on the court since 1789.

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-02-2022, 01:18 PM)basballguy Wrote: This goes both ways :)

20 years ago the left would've never forced entire nations to shut down over a flulike illness.  

The middle is still the middle...we just have more visible extreme rights and lefts.  

The left forcing nations to shut down?

Are you talking about 2020 when everything shut down (except for my work) and the Republican president was on tv every night talking about it?

Because I remember the lines to get in to grocery stores and most businesses being shut down. And that was in 2020 with a republican president…

So are we just making stuff up or are we talking about a different country?


I’m sorry this bashing by the right because government officials attempted to control a global pandemic that was overwhelming hospitals and killing people is the most pitiful attack like I have seen from them yet. Zomg!!! you tried to help stop the spread of a disease wreaking havoc on the globe how horrible of you…

I mean seriously? Wtf

[basballguy]

(03-02-2022, 05:35 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: The left forcing nations to shut down?

Are you talking about 2020 when everything shut down (except for my work) and the Republican  president was on tv every night talking about it?

Because I remember the lines to get in to grocery stores and most businesses being shut down. And that was in 2020 with a republican president…

So are we just making stuff up or are we talking about a different country?


I’m sorry this bashing by the right because government officials attempted to control a global pandemic that was overwhelming hospitals and killing people is the most pitiful attack like I have seen from them yet. Zomg!!! you tried to help stop the spread of a disease wreaking havoc on the globe how horrible of you…

I mean seriously? Wtf

Last time i checked, the president didn't shut down individual cities and states.  Stay at home orders were made by local governments.  It was literally democratic/left-leaning leadership leading these shutdowns here and abroad.  

Like many other topics, you're uninformed and speaking from emotion instead of reason.  Because of this you completely missed the point.

[basballguy]

(03-02-2022, 04:45 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: A person not paying attention to the flow of the comments has been on the court since 1789.

i'm glad we're all having fun.  :)

[*Nately120*]

(03-02-2022, 06:06 PM)basballguy Wrote: Last time i checked, the president didn't shut down individual cities and states.  Stay at home orders were made by local governments.  It was literally democratic/left-leaning leadership leading these shutdowns here and abroad.  

Like many other topics, you're uninformed and speaking from emotion instead of reason.  Because of this you completely missed the point.

Liberal cities and states may have shut down after seeing Trump conclude it was a blue city/state disease and downplay things.

Then it starts hitting unvaccinated red areas and his voter base and suddenly he's Mr. Get the vaccine and the booster, I did!  

So if liberals shut things down after Trump declared it to be nothing to worry about, you have to at least call them consistent in their zeal to not listen to Trump. 

 

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-02-2022, 06:06 PM)basballguy Wrote: Last time i checked, the president didn't shut down individual cities and states.  Stay at home orders were made by local governments.  It was literally democratic/left-leaning leadership leading these shutdowns here and abroad.  

Like many other topics, you're uninformed and speaking from emotion instead of reason.  Because of this you completely missed the point.

Still making stuff up?

UK lockdown right wing leader
India lockdown right wing leader
Indonesia lockdown right wing leader

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-grapples-coronavirus-guidelines-markets-plummet/story?id=69620218

“President Donald Trump and his coronavirus task force on Monday issued new, stricter guidelines to stop the spread of the disease, including that states with evidence of community transmission should close bars, restaurants and other indoor and outdoor venues where groups of people congregate.”

No he didn’t, he just set the guidelines. Which my Republican governor happened to follow.

I like the personal shot at the end there. Please feel free to elaborate all the topics I am uniformed on. Maybe I can deprogram some of the brainwashing

[basballguy]

(03-02-2022, 06:34 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-grapples-coronavirus-guidelines-markets-plummet/story?id=69620218

“President Donald Trump and his coronavirus task force on Monday issued new, stricter guidelines to stop the spread of the disease, including that states with evidence of community transmission should close bars, restaurants and other indoor and outdoor venues where groups of people congregate.”

No he didn’t he just set the guidelines. Which my Republican governor happened to follow.

I like the personal shot at the end there. Please feel free to elaborate all the topics I am uniformed on. Maybe I can deprogram some of the brainwashing

Again...you're missing the point but since you're so passionate about this we'll continue.  

These guidelines/recommendations were to individual citizens.  They were not to local governments to close businesses in their cities/states.  This release of guidelines was not a shutdown....you're welcome to mince words but Trump did not lead the shutdown.  Democratic leadership did.  It's a fact.  If it was a Trump led shutdown then we would've had stay at home orders in place for all 50 states.  But guess what?  Not every state issued one.  Can you guess why?  Because no matter who the president is, they cannot impose that type of rule over states.  

And even before states were issuing stay at home orders, cities were already doing it....democratic led cities.  So you can start your deprogramming here.  

Back to the entire point of my comment....We wouldn't have seen this type of reaction 20 years ago.  

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-02-2022, 06:48 PM)basballguy Wrote: Again...you're missing the point but since you're so passionate about this we'll continue.  

These guidelines/recommendations were to individual citizens.  They were not to local governments to close businesses in their cities/states.  This release of guidelines was not a shutdown....you're welcome to mince words but Trump did not lead the shutdown.  Democratic leadership did.  It's a fact.  If it was a Trump led shutdown then we would've had stay at home orders in place for all 50 states.  But guess what?  Not every state issued one.  Can you guess why?  Because no matter who the president is, they cannot impose that type of rule over states.  

And even before states were issuing stay at home orders, cities were already doing it....democratic led cities.  So you can start your deprogramming here.  

Back to the entire point of my comment....We wouldn't have seen this type of reaction 20 years ago.  

So the highest power in the land, the executive branch, released guidelines for all of America. The guidelines came from a republican administration. And you only credit Democratic leadership for trying to protect the public (their job) from a global pandemic?

[Belsnickel]

(03-02-2022, 01:18 PM)basballguy Wrote: This goes both ways :)

20 years ago the left would've never forced entire nations to shut down over a flulike illness.  

The middle is still the middle...we just have more visible extreme rights and lefts.  

Yeah they would've, but it's not the left that did it. That's a different topic.

Anyway, the middle is still the middle on a geo-political spectrum, but here in the U.S. what people consider "the middle" is actually right-of-center as far as the ideological spectrum goes. The Overton Window has shifted significantly to the right. What you likely consider to be "extreme left" is barely left of center in the grand scheme of things. The furthest left we see our politicians in this country is in the social democrat realm. That's considered a center-left ideology. Remember Angela Merkel over in Germany? Her and her party are center-right, but for U.S. politics would fall pretty squarely with the mainstream Democratic Party.

So yeah, we do have more visible extremes, but it is almost entirely on the right. So much so that it has shifted our Overton Window in a way that our politics exists almost exclusively on the right-hand side of the geo-political spectrum.

[Dill]

(03-02-2022, 04:39 PM)basballguy Wrote: Where you say restrict others may say improve.  It's no secret one side heavily benefits from having relaxed voting laws.  It has nothing to do with being "Trump led".  Once you get past the flag waving nut jobs in Alabama, many conservatives would feel the same way regardless of who's primary on the ticket.  We shouldn't be making it easy for non citizens to vote in our elections.  

Efforts to link illegal voting to Dem electoral victories began before Trump took office, sure. But he ramped up that right wing narrative right after he won in 2016, claiming that 3-5 million illegals voted for Hillary, and that's why she won the popular vote. 38 Republican secretaries of state claimed there was no fraud in their states, and a commision set up by Trump to investigate voter fraud quietly folded after a year of forensic research produced nothing. 

It appears to be pretty hard for illegals to vote everywhere, including and especially Texas, and Trump's emphasis of that narrative has been central to the drive to "improve" voting by making it harder to exercise that fundamental right.

So Dems benefit from voting laws which make access easier, like more polling places and mail in ballots. Republican restrictions, on the other hand, don't just make it harder for non-citizens to vote (a non-existant problem), they make it harder for Americans to vote, especially when primarily Dem-voting demographics are targeted. 

But voter fraud is not the primary problem addressed in my post; rather it is election fraud--the Trump administration's efforts to steal the election out right have morphed into legislation designed to secure GOP control of state and national elections regardless of which side actually gets more votes. That ongoing election fraud has everything to do with Trump, whose bad behavior after he sicced a mob onto Congress continues today. He has led the charge to replace state SoS's in GOP states with people who, unlike the one in Georgia, WILL find the votes he needs. And as I mentioned before, the problem with the next election will not be voter fraud, but legislature-controlled election fraud, driven in part by Trump's baseless claim that Biden stole the election.  This is still the biggest problem facing the country right now--not energy dependence or the Ukraine war or inflation. 

(03-02-2022, 04:39 PM)basballguy Wrote: In Dallas you can get away with showing a utility bill as identification to vote.  That's just nonsense.  Over 2 million illegal immigrants crossed the border in 2021...numbers like that swing elections.  

I'm not going to get into voter fraud because that's one of those topics where no matter what side of the fence someone is on, they are not changing their mind.  

We have plenty of evidence the Trump team engaged in election fraud.

Do you have any reason, any evidence, to suggest two million illegal immigrants have ever swung an election in the US? Can you cite an election in which just 10 managed to cast illegal votes? 5? 

Final Note on the VF topic: Claiming "both sides" are "not changing their mind" frames the issue as if both sides are equally resistant to logic and evidence. They are not. One side won't change its mind because it won't ignore evidence; the other side won't change its mind because it ignores the evidence in favor of Trump truthiness.

[GMDino]

(03-03-2022, 07:11 PM)Dill Wrote: Efforts to link illegal voting to Dem electoral victories began before Trump took office, sure. But he ramped up that right wing narrative right after he won in 2016, claiming that 3-5 million illegals voted for Hillary, and that's why she won the popular vote. 38 Republican secretaries of state claimed there was no fraud in their states, and a commision set up by Trump to investigate voter fraud quietly folded after a year of forensic research produced nothing. 

It appears to be pretty hard for illegals to vote everywhere, including and especially Texas, and Trump's emphasis of that narrative has been central to the drive to "improve" voting by making it harder to exercise that fundamental right.

So Dems benefit from voting laws which make access easier, like more polling places and mail in ballots. Republican restrictions, on the other hand, don't just make it harder for non-citizens to vote (a non-existant problem), they make it harder for Americans to vote, especially when primarily Dem-voting demographics are targeted. 

But voter fraud is not the primary problem addressed in my post; rather it is election fraud--the Trump administration's efforts to steal the election out right have morphed into legislation designed to secure GOP control of state and national elections regardless of which side actually gets more votes. That ongoing election fraud has everything to do with Trump, whose bad behavior after he sicced a mob onto Congress continues today. He has led the charge to replace state SoS's in GOP states with people who, unlike the one in Georgia, WILL find the votes he needs. And as I mentioned before, the problem with the next election will not be voter fraud, but legislature-controlled election fraud, driven in part by Trump's baseless claim that Biden stole the election.  This is still the biggest problem facing the country right now--not energy dependence or the Ukraine war or inflation. 


We have plenty of evidence the Trump team engaged in election fraud.

Do you have any reason, any evidence, to suggest two million illegal immigrants have ever swung an election in the US? Can you cite an election in which just 10 managed to cast illegal votes? 5? 

Final Note on the VF topic: Claiming "both sides" are "not changing their mind" frames the issue as if both sides are equally resistant to logic and evidence. They are not. One side won't change its mind because it won't ignore evidence; the other side won't change its mind because it ignores the evidence in favor of Trump truthiness.

Of course 2 million (maybe more!) illegals voted!  That's why Texas swung to the Democrats!  Wait...