Storming Of The Capitol Building

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-02-2021, 09:03 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: That's because fascism has time tested methods of taking root. Anyone with a head for history could see the writing on the walls here in America over the last few years.

It was never about the man, it was about what he was doing clear as day. But they still called it TDS.

There is a large group of people that aren't very bright that has watched the world grow past them and, for some stupid ***** reason, they thought that Donald Trump cared about them(LOL) because he learned to say things that they wanted to hear even if he himself didn't believe them.

[Tiger Teeth]

(02-02-2021, 10:15 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: There is a large group of people that aren't very bright that has watched the world grow past them and, for some stupid ***** reason, they thought that Donald Trump cared about them(LOL) because he learned to say things that they wanted to hear even if he himself didn't believe them.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-02-2021, 10:15 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: There is a large group of people that aren't very bright that has watched the world grow past them and, for some stupid ***** reason, they thought that Donald Trump cared about them(LOL) because he learned to say things that they wanted to hear even if he himself didn't believe them.

What exactly does the underlined mean?

[BmorePat87]

(02-02-2021, 01:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: What exactly does the underlined mean?

assuming it meant holding on to antiquated social views and being stuck in economically depressed areas formally dependent on manufacturing that were left behind. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-02-2021, 01:50 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: assuming it meant holding on to antiquated social views and being stuck in economically depressed areas formally dependent on manufacturing that were left behind. 

I'm interested because that's the exact kind of language and attitude that perpetuates this problem.  Of course, as I've stated many times previously, people are responsible for their own actions.  But this kind of rhetoric is the exact opposite of helpful.

[*Nately120*]

(02-02-2021, 02:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm interested because that's the exact kind of language and attitude that perpetuates this problem.  Of course, as I've stated many times previously, people are responsible for their own actions.  But this kind of rhetoric is the exact opposite of helpful.

I'm not sure if I'm on the right page here, but I can say that being from the rust belt I've come across a lot of people who were union democrats who went republican because democrats are gonna take your guns and democrats make it so lazy people get paid to not work.

That's pretty genius marketing on the part of the right wing, though I have to admit.  I killed your union and lowered your standard of living, but hey...lazy people want your paycheck so vote for me.  Brutal.

[Rotobeast]

(02-02-2021, 02:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm interested because that's the exact kind of language and attitude that perpetuates this problem.  Of course, as I've stated many times previously, people are responsible for their own actions.  But this kind of rhetoric is the exact opposite of helpful.

To be fair, it is a far cry better than stating their head was firmly planted within their posterior. 
That being said, you are both correct.
From the amount of campaigning I've done over the past couple of years, I've found people are severely entrenched in their beliefs though very limited experiences.
Your assessment of proper dialogue is quite on point.
I would first ask folks to tell me about their experiences that formed that position.
Then I would revisit their experiences with plenty of "Do you think" and "What if" statements.
I tried to frame the conversation as if we were on their pathway of life experience and looked down a different fork in the road.
Only a few "Harrrumph-ed" me.
Most humored the thought experiment with a slightly questioning head tilt.
We must plant seeds and allow folks to come back to us.
Forcing an issue most often results in blunt resistance.

[BmorePat87]

(02-02-2021, 02:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm interested because that's the exact kind of language and attitude that perpetuates this problem.  Of course, as I've stated many times previously, people are responsible for their own actions.  But this kind of rhetoric is the exact opposite of helpful.

In the case of the economy, it's not their fault, and I wouldn't personally read it with a negative or condescending tone. As a country, we failed to properly transition areas dependent on manufacturing to a post industrial economy. The world grew past them. 

If it's referring to antiquated social views, I'd read it with the condescending tone, though I'm not sure if we have to coddle racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry. People tend to grow past these views by being exposed to the populations they hold stereotypes and negative views of. The problem is we're a very segregated nation with many bubbles and we have less opportunities to genuinely interact with people outside of those bubbles.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-02-2021, 02:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm interested because that's the exact kind of language and attitude that perpetuates this problem.  Of course, as I've stated many times previously, people are responsible for their own actions.  But this kind of rhetoric is the exact opposite of helpful.

Well, I doubt that my remarks will lead to people attacking their capitol so I have lots of wiggle room before anyone should complain. Speaking of which, you complain A LOT with rarely, if ever, offering solutions other than said complaints which, without a solution, come off as very snowflakey.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-02-2021, 02:55 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Well, I doubt that my remarks will lead to people attacking their capitol so I have lots of wiggle room before anyone should complain. Speaking of which, you complain A LOT with rarely, if ever, offering solutions other than said complaints which, without a solution, come off as very snowflakey.

An interesting attack, seeing as how I'm speaking about other people and not myself.  Also, inciting people to storm the Capitol Building is not really the standard we should be setting for communicating with each other.  Judging by this response I think I was correct in assuming that your intent was to be condescending, which is exactly why I stated that this kind of language and attitude perpetuates a problem most people state they would like resolved.  How about this for a solution, don't condescend to people who share a different worldview from yourself?  That's an easy solution and you can start doing it right away.

[GMDino]

(02-02-2021, 02:55 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Well, I doubt that my remarks will lead to people attacking their capitol so I have lots of wiggle room before anyone should complain. Speaking of which, you complain A LOT with rarely, if ever, offering solutions other than said complaints which, without a solution, come off as very snowflakey.

Hey now!  Let's not be condescending to people who are condescending. Or go ahead and maybe they will cancel each other out? 

All seriousness aside too often general statements (with lots of wiggle room) get taken personally by people for no good reason.  If you're not in the group being talked about no need to take offense.  And if the idea is stop general statements it's better to point out if they aren't true rather than just attack them. IMHO.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-02-2021, 02:25 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: To be fair, it is a far cry better than stating their head was firmly planted within their posterior. 
That being said, you are both correct.
From the amount of campaigning I've done over the past couple of years, I've found people are severely entrenched in their beliefs though very limited experiences.
Your assessment of proper dialogue is quite on point.
I would first ask folks to tell me about their experiences that formed that position.
Then I would revisit their experiences with plenty of "Do you think" and "What if" statements.
I tried to frame the conversation as if we were on their pathway of life experience and looked down a different fork in the road.
Only a few "Harrrumph-ed" me.
Most humored the thought experiment with a slightly questioning head tilt.
We must plant seeds and allow folks to come back to us.
Forcing an issue most often results in blunt resistance.

I've never run for office, although I've been asked to consider running for LA County of Supervisors.  That's not a possibility because, 1. I can't pretend to be ok with the current brand of bullshit that our political climate in this state produces, 2. I'm a straight white male, so that's bad, and 3. I don't have the backing of anyone with enough juice to make it feasible.  But to your communication point, you are 100% correct.  In my job I have to be able to vary my language and approach based on my audience.  There are a lot of people in my profession who cannot do this and their work product suffers commensurately.

(02-02-2021, 02:54 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: In the case of the economy, it's not their fault, and I wouldn't personally read it with a negative or condescending tone. As a country, we failed to properly transition areas dependent on manufacturing to a post industrial economy. The world grew past them.

True. Although another way to put it is that our government let/enabled manufacturing jobs flee overseas to slave wage nations and corporations were only happy to oblige to maximize profits.

Quote:If it's referring to antiquated social views, I'd read it with the condescending tone, though I'm not sure if we have to coddle racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry. People tend to grow past these views by being exposed to the populations they hold stereotypes and negative views of. The problem is we're a very segregated nation with many bubbles and we have less opportunities to genuinely interact with people outside of those bubbles.

For obviously bigoted or sexist views I think we can all agree.  The problem is there are plenty of views that many left leaning people find unacceptable that are not.  Nationalism for one, it is completely fine IMO to care more about one's country and fellow citizens than that of others.  Of course there are limits to this, but it's one example.  Finding transgender treatment/surgery for people under eighteen unacceptable would be labeled as horrible bigotry by some.  The problem is that any belief not wholly embraced by the current zeitgeist has a tendency to labeled antiquated at best and bigoted at worst.  That's my main issue with the type of language used in the post I called out.

[Belsnickel]

(02-02-2021, 03:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: True. Although another way to put it is that our government let/enabled manufacturing jobs flee overseas to slave wage nations and corporations were only happy to oblige to maximize profits.

Yay, free trade!

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-02-2021, 03:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yay, free trade!

I'd love to see a law put into place where the highest salary in a company, bonuses included, could only be 10 times higher than what the lowest paid employee would make in a 40 hour work week. Trump gave these businesses big tax cuts . . . how many of these companies that shipped jobs overseas closed down those overseas manufacturing plants to use this new tax cut to bring jobs back?

CEOs have watched their salaries jump since Reaganomics took hold and the quarterly bonuses have also skyrocketed. They now make enough in just a few years that a normal everyday worker could easily retire on.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-02-2021, 03:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: An interesting attack, seeing as how I'm speaking about other people and not myself.  Also, inciting people to storm the Capitol Building is not really the standard we should be setting for communicating with each other.  Judging by this response I think I was correct in assuming that your intent was to be condescending, which is exactly why I stated that this kind of language and attitude perpetuates a problem most people state they would like resolved.  How about this for a solution, don't condescend to people who share a different worldview from yourself?  That's an easy solution and you can start doing it right away.

So can you, bro.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-02-2021, 03:52 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So can you, bro.

Absolutely.  However, I tend to confine my condescension to individual and not large swathes of people.

[Au165]

It is interesting that CNN and MSNBC were carrying live the laying of the officer in Capitol who died in the insurrection while Fox News was running a segment titled "China to Dominate World Built by Fauci".

[*Nately120*]

(02-03-2021, 10:21 AM)Au165 Wrote: It is interesting that CNN and MSNBC were carrying live the laying of the officer in Capitol who died in the insurrection while Fox News was running a segment titled "China to Dominate World Built by Fauci".

Give em what they want. 

[GMDino]

(02-03-2021, 10:21 AM)Au165 Wrote: It is interesting that CNN and MSNBC were carrying live the laying of the officer in Capitol who died in the insurrection while Fox News was running a segment titled "China to Dominate World Built by Fauci".

(02-03-2021, 10:39 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Give em what they want. 

"Unity"

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-03-2021, 10:21 AM)Au165 Wrote: It is interesting that CNN and MSNBC were carrying live the laying of the officer in Capitol who died in the insurrection while Fox News was running a segment titled "China to Dominate World Built by Fauci".

It's interesting that CNN and the Dems suddenly care about the lives of law enforcement.