Study on gay marriage views retracted after allegations of fake data

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(05-24-2015, 11:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes. Why do you think the push over the last couple decades has been to find a "gay gene"?

I didn't really realize there was a push in the scientific community to find a "gay gene". I do remember studies trying to find the "god gene". I don't think they found one. I say go ahead and give homosexuals equal rights, and if the gay gene is found then we can have a debate on whether it still matters.

[Belsnickel]

(05-24-2015, 11:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree. It is no longer classified as a mental disorder because the definition was changed.

Have I said something to the contrary?

There was the implication that this was just because the gay community called for it when in reality there had been a push for several years to get away from labelling those that didn't necessarily fall within societal norms as having a mental disorder. This was seen to be highly controversial in the post- WWII era on because of what the world saw as the result of such thinking in the footage of the liberation of the concentration camps. The thinking that deviant behavior was a mental disorder was a huge component of the eugenics movement and led to the forced sterilization, lobotomization, or death of thousands upon thousands of people, including in this country.

So as the fields of psychology and psychiatry progressed there was a lot of pressure to move away from that thinking from a variety of places.

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2015, 11:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: I posted my question twice.  It was not the question you just answered.

So are you avoiding me? Or avoiding the question?

My point will be clear once you answer...  

My bad. I attempted to provide an answer to this question asked:

(05-24-2015, 04:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: Decency.  Morals.

But you probably want him to say "choice" so you can argue that being gay is a choice.

Do you like boobs or are you a leg man?

Why don't you grab every boob you see?  And when did you start liking them over say eyes?

No matter what you answer you are still attracted to women...you just choose to not attack them.

To answer that one then the answer is I look at the whole person. If it is the rest then it is also what I posted that I have the ability to control my urges.

Is there anything else I can answer for you?

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2015, 11:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There was the implication that this was just because the gay community called for it when in reality there had been a push for several years to get away from labelling those that didn't necessarily fall within societal norms as having a mental disorder. This was seen to be highly controversial in the post- WWII era on because of what the world saw as the result of such thinking in the footage of the liberation of the concentration camps. The thinking that deviant behavior was a mental disorder was a huge component of the eugenics movement and led to the forced sterilization, lobotomization, or death of thousands upon thousands of people, including in this country.

So as the fields of psychology and psychiatry progressed there was a lot of pressure to move away from that thinking from a variety of places.

So is that a yes or a no? In that it is no longer classified as a mental disorder because the definition changed?

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2015, 12:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So is that a yes or a no? In that it is no longer classified as a mental disorder because the definition changed?

That is a yes, as is obvious from reading my posts and wasn't what I was speaking against. I am responding to the erroneous implications in post 78 that it was just a result of the gay community putting pressure on the APA. I was under the assumption, since it was something you were using to support your argument, that it was something you agreed with.

[GMDino]

(05-25-2015, 12:02 AM)bfine32 Wrote: My bad. I attempted to provide an answer to this question asked:


To answer that one then the answer is I look at the whole person. If it is the rest then it is also what I posted that I have the ability to control my urges.

Is there anything else I can answer for you?

Urges? When did you develop these urges?

I refuse to answer questions until you make my point for me. You will see.

[BmorePat87]

(05-25-2015, 08:17 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That is a yes, as is obvious from reading my posts and wasn't what I was speaking against. I am responding to the erroneous implications in post 78 that it was just a result of the gay community putting pressure on the APA. I was under the assumption, since it was something you were using to support your argument, that it was something you agreed with.

Which makes sense when a person states that they believe something to still be a mental illness and then supply a blog post that confirms their belief through an erroneous claim.

The question is whether or not they understand the difference between mental illness and deviant behavior, which is critical in understanding why we no longer label deviant behaviors as mental illnesses, especially when people seem to believe the only reason why something is not labeled a mental illness is because of lobbying and a desire to appease.

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2015, 09:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: Urges?  When did you develop these urges?

I refuse to answer questions until you make my point for me.  You will see.  

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. The difference is nobody cares what your "answer" is.

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2015, 08:17 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That is a yes, as is obvious from reading my posts and wasn't what I was speaking against. I am responding to the erroneous implications in post 78 that it was just a result of the gay community putting pressure on the APA. I was under the assumption, since it was something you were using to support your argument, that it was something you agreed with.

This would make sense if I classified homosexuality simply as deviant behavior. But you are correct; the homosexual community has a history of trying to hitch their wagon to other movements.

Hell there's a movement been going on for some time that tries to relate it to the tone of one's skin.

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2015, 11:54 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I didn't really realize there was a push in the scientific community to find a "gay gene".  I do remember studies trying to find the "god gene".  I don't think they found one.  I say go ahead and give homosexuals equal rights, and if the gay gene is found then we can have a debate on whether it still matters.

...and if it is found to be a mental illness, do we still legitimize same-sex marriage?

[GMDino]

(05-25-2015, 01:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. The difference is nobody cares what your "answer" is.

But you are wrong..something I would think you are so used to you don't notice anymore.

You are simply avoiding answering a simple question. the reason for which is obvious and will be revealed when / if you ahve the nerve to answer it directly.

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2015, 01:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This would make sense if I classified homosexuality simply as deviant behavior. But you are correct; the homosexual community has a history of trying to hitch their wagon to other movements.

Hell there's a movement been going on for some time that tries to relate it to the tone of one's skin.

The whole reason for its listing as a disorder was because it is deviant behavior. Many deviant behaviors have been classified as mental disorders. The problem with the reasoning in doing so is that oftentimes, deviant behavior causes other disorders to manifest simply because of the societal pressures placed on someone. You mentioned Freud considering paranoia and homosexuality to be inseparable. There is a reason for that, and it is because of the societal views of the behavior causing paranoia and depression to often manifest.

Homosexuality is not a disorder, but when people treat it as if it is it can cause mental disorders to actually develop.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(05-25-2015, 01:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and if it is found to be a mental illness, do we still legitimize same-sex marriage?

Of course. Why would we not? We don't discriminate against people with Down's Syndrome and make laws to let them not get married. If your theory is true and homosexuality is a mental disorder, discriminating against them would be a completely horrible idea.

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2015, 01:58 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Of course. Why would we not? We don't discriminate against people with Down's Syndrome and make laws to let them not get married. If your theory is true and homosexuality is a mental disorder, discriminating against them would be a completely horrible idea.

But we do try to treat folks with Down's Syndrome and no one is suggesting making new laws to discriminate against homosexuality. I think the issue is not making laws to prohibit them from getting married; more so, it is to determine if same-sex marriage is covered under the constitution.

IMO if it were determined that it was a mental illness, this would make if a whole lot more difficult to say yes.

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2015, 01:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The whole reason for its listing as a disorder was because it is deviant behavior. Many deviant behaviors have been classified as mental disorders. The problem with the reasoning in doing so is that oftentimes, deviant behavior causes other disorders to manifest simply because of the societal pressures placed on someone. You mentioned Freud considering paranoia and homosexuality to be inseparable. There is a reason for that, and it is because of the societal views of the behavior causing paranoia and depression to often manifest.

Homosexuality is not a disorder, but when people treat it as if it is it can cause mental disorders to actually develop.

You're not breaking any new ground here; as I freely admitted that the fact that it is a mental illness has been disproved. My assertion is: If some become motivated to prove that it is (ala gay gene research); we may learn more.

[GMDino]

(05-25-2015, 01:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The whole reason for its listing as a disorder was because it is deviant behavior. Many deviant behaviors have been classified as mental disorders. The problem with the reasoning in doing so is that oftentimes, deviant behavior causes other disorders to manifest simply because of the societal pressures placed on someone. You mentioned Freud considering paranoia and homosexuality to be inseparable. There is a reason for that, and it is because of the societal views of the behavior causing paranoia and depression to often manifest.

Homosexuality is not a disorder, but when people treat it as if it is it can cause mental disorders to actually develop.

Reasons to be admitted into an Asylum:



Amazing how much has changed.

And in more than the last ten years.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(05-25-2015, 02:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: Reasons to be admitted into an Asylum:



Amazing how much has changed.

And in more than the last ten years.

Ha...'female disease'. I should have my wife committed.

[GMDino]

(05-25-2015, 02:25 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Ha...'female disease'.  I should have my wife committed.

Or "imaginary female trouble"!

[magikod]

(05-23-2015, 11:56 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: No one really thinks that being gay is a choice.  It's just something that religious people say that they think helps them look like less of a piece of shit.

Exactly.

Religion will be the eventual downfall of man.

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2015, 02:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You're not breaking any new ground here; as I freely admitted that the fact that it is a mental illness has been disproved. My assertion is: If some become motivated to prove that it is (ala gay gene research); we may learn more.

You have also equated homosexuality to another mental disorder, which is evidence of your opinion on the matter.

Also, there have been extensive studies, and there still are many ongoing, into other biological causes other than genetics for homosexuality. In fact, there was work done 24 years ago that showed a cluster of neurons in the hypothalmus was smaller in homosexual males than in heterosexual males. The scientist that published this was actually criticized by the LGBT community (of which he is a part) because they believed it would lead to a reclassification to mental illness. However that has not been the case because even if this is a "brain abnormality" as you put it earlier, it is still only deviant behavior and not an illness or a disorder and so will not be seen as such.

Scientists are constantly researching what causes homosexuality, not just the potential for a gay gene.