Syrian family in Germany orders a hit on their own daughter

[GMDino]

(12-14-2015, 01:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Honor killings are popular within the Muslim community .  We have a western refugee crisis that are a large group of these people who partake in honor killings are trying to come to the west.   It's worth noting that this is the belief system they bring with them.  

This has everything to do with religion.  Not islamaphobia

Make people scared?  Who on earth on this forum gets scared over a story?   If anyone doesn't agree they can skip the thread.  If a thread doesn't have 10 posts after 24 hours then Delete it.  Or hopefully it would be on page 2 by then .    Better off having more threads than less.    If people don't post on them then they go away in favor of more popular threads.

[GMDino]

(12-14-2015, 01:14 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Well you would think if a family lost a child they would be In grief and would be helping authorities find the killers.   Instead of disappearing.   Until they come forward with their story what else are we to do?  All we have is a 20 year old girl terrified that her family was going to kill her because a group of men gang raped her.  

Maybe the family would like to set the record straight .  Too bad they disappeared.   Cause you know innocent people disappear all the time when their children are murdered

As for me being a terrorist.   I don't think it's a bad thing to know what these people are preaching.   If you want me to stop then help Call for a reformation.   Once western Islam steps up and has one then we can move forward.   Until then they support these things until they reform it out.

Maybe the rest of the family is dead.  

[StLucieBengal]

(12-14-2015, 01:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Maybe the rest of the family is dead.  

Possibly. Which would make the mother even more of a suspect.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-14-2015, 12:03 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: We've had people post crazy story threads in klotsch before. "X kills X in X location". That's all this really is. Family kills daughter in Germany for being raped. 

Yea no big deal. Girl got raped, parents, brother did the right thing and redeemed the family honor. Way to show your support for "Honour Killings". Quite surprising coming from someone who places so much emphasis on equal rights. I guess the poor girl would've gotten your full support if she had been a homosexual or trans-gender.

[Benton]

(12-14-2015, 01:14 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Well you would think if a family lost a child they would be In grief and would be helping authorities find the killers.1   Instead of disappearing.   Until they come forward with their story what else are we to do?2  All we have is a 20 year old girl terrified that her family was going to kill her because a group of men gang raped her.  

Maybe the family would like to set the record straight .  Too bad they disappeared.   Cause you know innocent people disappear all the time when their children are murdered 3

As for me being a terrorist.   I don't think it's a bad thing to know what these people are preaching.   If you want me to stop then help Call for a reformation.   Once western Islam steps up and has one then we can move forward.   Until then they support these things until they reform it out.4

1 You're in a country where there's a lot of mistrust and misunderstanding... and you're going to the authorities?
2 Not assume?
3 Maybe they fled in fear? Maybe they fled because people assume they're guilty? Maybe they're out looking for who did it? Or maybe they fled because they're guilty. It's impossible to know without evidence. Accusations don't really help solve a crime.
4 Muslims speak out against moderate Muslims all the time. Pretty much every time there's an attack it's countered by moderates trying to defuse the situation. But their stories are easier for people to skip over because it's easier to be scared.

[GMDino]

(12-14-2015, 02:07 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Yea no big deal. Girl got raped, parents, brother did the right thing and redeemed the family honor. Way to show your support for "Honour Killings". Quite surprising coming from someone who places so much emphasis on equal rights. I guess the poor girl would've gotten your full support if she had been a homosexual or trans-gender.

Yet if someone were to point out any other religious sect doing something horrible as a comparison it would be wrong.

This is a tragic story.  We should be more concerned for the victim than trying to place blame due to the alleged perpetrators religion.  Right?

[StLucieBengal]

(12-14-2015, 02:27 PM)Benton Wrote: 1 You're in a country where there's a lot of mistrust and misunderstanding... and you're going to the authorities?
2 Not assume?
3 Maybe they fled in fear? Maybe they fled because people assume they're guilty? Maybe they're out looking for who did it? Or maybe they fled because they're guilty. It's impossible to know without evidence. Accusations don't really help solve a crime.
4 Muslims speak out against moderate Muslims all the time. Pretty much every time there's an attack it's countered by moderates trying to defuse the situation. But their stories are easier for people to skip over because it's easier to be scared.

1. yet they chose to be in that country. And besides anytime I bring up the immigration/refugee problems in Germany and how people are upset about it.... Everyone here tells me it's only a small minority that doesn't matter. Germany loves middle eastern immigrants/refugees is all I hear out of most on this board.

2. I agree with you here. But fleeing doesn't help their case either. The quickest way you stop a false accusation is to be transparent and assist. Running and hiding is only going to make it seem worse. I would love to get their story but they won't share. So all we can off of is the only story being told. When more info is provided we can adjust based on that new stuff.

3. On the Muslims speaking out. Yes that's good. But they need to call for a reformation to show everyone they want to promote the peace and love of Islam instead of the fire and brimstone. a reformation shows a new era of Islam putting behind the old ways.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-14-2015, 02:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yet if someone were to point out any other religious sect doing something horrible as a comparison it would be wrong.

This is a tragic story.  We should be more concerned for the victim than trying to place blame due to the alleged perpetrators religion.  Right?

If religion wasn't involved then this girl would be alive be still

[GMDino]

(12-14-2015, 02:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Of religion wasn't involved then this girl would be alive still

Probably.

Again, religion has caused a lot of death throughout history.

[BmorePat87]

(12-14-2015, 02:07 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Yea no big deal. Girl got raped, parents, brother did the right thing and redeemed the family honor. Way to show your support for "Honour Killings". Quite surprising coming from someone who places so much emphasis on equal rights. I guess the poor girl would've gotten your full support if she had been a homosexual or trans-gender.

No, it's not relevant to PnR because it's a single murder 5,000 miles away and the OP didn't attempt to relate it to any real policy issue. Maybe we should have inferred that it was another one of his "I really hate Muslims and here is why" post, but a single Muslim family killing their daughter doesn't really say much in terms of indicating a pattern that we can expect with an influx of Syrian refugees. 

[BmorePat87]

(12-14-2015, 01:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Honor killings are popular within the Muslim community .  We have a western refugee crisis that are a large group of these people who partake in honor killings are trying to come to the west.   It's worth noting that this is the belief system they bring with them.  

So your reasoning for posting this in PnR is that a significant number of Syrian refugees believe that their religion compels them to murder their female relatives if they are raped. 

And your evidence is one death?

[StLucieBengal]

(12-14-2015, 04:22 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So your reasoning for posting this in PnR is that a significant number of Syrian refugees believe that their religion compels them to murder their female relatives if they are raped. 

And your evidence is one death?

No but when anyone brings up this its laughed off as nothing to see here. So when a story comes out exposing that it's happening in the west then It makes it relevant .

You want it both ways .... To slam when any of us bring this stuff up in a discussion as it never happening because we have no proof. Then when we post proof the tone changes to ... Nothing to see here ... Lucie is a terrorist/Muslim hater.

Now you are telling us this religious murder doesn't belong in the politics and Religion forum.

If anything this shows that these people aren't ready to assimilate into the west. They either knew what they did was wrong and ran.... As criminals do... Or they don't trust anyone in the west. Which begs the question.... Why even come here? And even more shows why they shouldn't be Permitted to immigrate to the western nations.

[*bfine32*]

(12-14-2015, 09:37 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Wait... how is this "ordering a hit" if they killed her?

Also, because bfine practically begged someone to post something, here are some good ol' Americans who beat their 8 month old daughter for an hour in a successful attempt to kill her baby.

http://fox8.com/2015/06/03/four-family-members-accused-of-beating-pregnant-teen-to-abort-baby/

2nd grade reading comprehension would have allowed the reader to realize I said Christian Family, not Americans. There appears to be no religious motivation at all concerning this case.

[BmorePat87]

(12-14-2015, 04:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 2nd grade reading comprehension would have allowed the reader to realize I said Christian Family, not Americans. You do realize there are Muslim Americans, don't you?

It also wasn't a story about spanking. I assumed you would have seen that I posted it a bit in jest (especially considering you didn't "practically beg"), but I guess you're in literal and offended mode considering this response. 

Please don't report me to your mod. 

[*bfine32*]

(12-14-2015, 04:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Please don't report me to your mod. 

Oh that's right; you were one of the simpletons that got duped.

[BmorePat87]

(12-14-2015, 04:31 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: No but when anyone brings up this its laughed off as nothing to see here.   So when a story comes out exposing that it's happening in the west then It makes it relevant .  

You want it both ways .... To slam when any of us bring this stuff up in a discussion as it never happening because we have no proof.   Then when we post proof the tone changes to ... Nothing to see here ... Lucie is a terrorist/Muslim hater.  

Now you are telling us this religious murder doesn't belong in the politics and Religion forum.  

If anything this shows that these people aren't ready to assimilate into the west.   They either knew what they did was wrong and ran.... As criminals do...   Or they don't trust anyone in the west.   Which begs the question.... Why even come here?   And even more shows why they shouldn't be Permitted to immigrate to the western nations.

People of all religions are killing family members in the US. If you want to present this as a major problem and one we need to discuss, please do. So just saying "I guess they think this is OK in the West", it means nothing. By your logic, it is OK in the West as Americans kill people over religion too. 

But when you reference one isolated case in another country 5000 miles away, it comes off as another "I really hate Muslims" thread. 

[BmorePat87]

(12-14-2015, 04:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh that's right; you were one of the simpletons that got duped.

[Benton]

(12-14-2015, 02:56 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:  

3.  On the Muslims speaking out.   Yes that's good.   But they need to call for a reformation to show everyone they want to promote the peace and love of Islam instead of the fire and brimstone.  a reformation shows a new era of Islam putting behind the old ways.

1. Is kinda silly, so I'll just leave that be. They chose to leave their country as refugees, you're assuming they wanted to be where they ended up.



3. Reformation of what? The If you're referring to the Protestant version, it's already happened. There already have been rifts created and other groups formed, from Wahhabism to Sunni. I don't see what good it would do when the overwhelming majority of non-violent Muslims break into even smaller groups, which — just my opinion — would be more prone to falling under extremist teachings.

[fredtoast]

(12-13-2015, 10:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Waits for someone to post a story about a Christian family spanking one of their children to draw a correlation.

Not spanking.  Beating to death.

http://nypost.com/2015/10/16/son-beaten-to-death-because-he-wanted-to-leave-the-church/

Family members and other Christian Church members beat their son to death because he wanted to leave the Church.

Maybe they were inspired by the Bible story where the Christian god told Abraham to kill his own son Isaac as a sacrifice. 



NO MORE CHRISTIAN IMMIGRANTS ALLOWED IN UNITED STATES UNTIL THIS STOPS.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-14-2015, 10:15 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Also, why is this in PnR?

Often times we post stories that relate to a political issue or law in the US, but, other than the fact that they are Muslims who came from Syria who did a bad thing, what is the point of this? Family members kill family members on a regular basis.

And let's just let more people in that believe in Honor Killing?

(12-14-2015, 11:17 AM)GMDino Wrote: And, as I said, no one wants this to happen.

But the next time Lucy posts about something other than a brown person with a funny name and different religion doing one of these crazy things will be the first.

Why can't we hate people for what they do and not what group they are part of?

Oh, right...because they "aren't like us".

If it was religion based, how ever Honor Killing pre-dates Islam. Because it is still heavily practiced in the Middle Eastern Countries, we tend to associate it with Islam.

The Quran makes no mention of Honor Killing. If so, then why don't the Muslims in Indonesia actively practice it? Instead, they call it like it is, Murder.

(12-14-2015, 11:28 AM)Benton Wrote: Which is exactly the problem we're having with a great of these Islamaphobia threads. They don't belong elsewhere on the board, and really they don't even belong in PnR as they aren't discussing politics or religion, they're just being used to whip up fear over a religion. This thread doesn't offer much toward discussion or furthering any conversations, it's just the latest attempt to make people scared.

So we can't talk about issues that are happening in the world right now?

(12-14-2015, 11:33 AM)Benton Wrote: The cops don't know = he ran off.
A sexual assault victim says her family thinks she deserves to die = A sexual assault victim's family put a hit on her
Author attempting to sell a book surrounding unprovable accusations = fact



Lucie, you are the worst terrorist I know. You do nothing but further the efforts of those who want everyone in fear.

Honor killing, if it was indeed that, has to be carried out by a family member or the honor is not restored. The only one that typically will be exempted is when the father/mother kill their off spring. The girl stated prior to the killing that her family wanted her dead because it was an honor thing. It's pretty safe to assume that her family (father did the actual deed) did it, and this needs to be brought to light by the author so that people can get an understanding of it and address it properly instead of blowing it off because a teenage girl says her family will kill her (as Americans, when we hear teenage girls say that, we know that in most cases it's an exaggeration), but not in this girls culture.

(12-14-2015, 02:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yet if someone were to point out any other religious sect doing something horrible as a comparison it would be wrong.

This is a tragic story.  We should be more concerned for the victim than trying to place blame due to the alleged perpetrators religion.  Right?

Honor Killings are not a religious practice.

(12-14-2015, 02:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If religion wasn't involved then this girl would be alive be still

False.

(12-14-2015, 04:20 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No, it's not relevant to PnR because it's a single murder 5,000 miles away and the OP didn't attempt to relate it to any real policy issue. Maybe we should have inferred that it was another one of his "I really hate Muslims and here is why" post, but a single Muslim family killing their daughter doesn't really say much in terms of indicating a pattern that we can expect with an influx of Syrian refugees. 

Is it just that? So would it be ok to use the 100,000 Somali Refugees from the 80's as a model of what to expect in 20+ years?

(12-14-2015, 04:22 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So your reasoning for posting this in PnR is that a significant number of Syrian refugees believe that their religion compels them to murder their female relatives if they are raped. 

And your evidence is one death?

Not religion, a culture belief. How many deaths does it take?
It is estimated that there is 23-27 Honor Killings annually here in the US. Is that enough?

(12-14-2015, 04:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: People of all religions are killing family members in the US. If you want to present this as a major problem and one we need to discuss, please do. So just saying "I guess they think this is OK in the West", it means nothing. By your logic, it is OK in the West as Americans kill people over religion too. 

But when you reference one isolated case in another country 5000 miles away, it comes off as another "I really hate Muslims" thread. 

It's not a religious thing, it's a cultural one.
It is unfortunate the Muslims commit 91% of the honor killings world wide, and that almost all of those Muslims came from the Middle East.

http://www.meforum.org/2646/worldwide-trends-in-honor-killings


I could list a bunch of honor killings that have happened here in the US, but I think we are all capable of google'ing them ourselves.

FGM is very wise spread as well and needs to be addressed and unfortunately is also practiced the most by people from the Middle East as well.

One of the biggest problems is that the police don't know how to properly identify cases with honor killing, most of the time, they just classify them as domestic disputes. We need to figure out a way to start distinguishing them from the normal domestic disputes.