TV viewership down 13% NFL Debut

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-16-2020, 12:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can understand why stuff bothers people, it's just the penchant some folks have to declare themselves put-upon and oppressed that gets my eyes rolling. 

It just goes back to the whole idea that everyone has to claim to love freedom but also get upset that people use freedom to do or promote things they don't like. 

So I get why people don't like it, it's just the follow-up of declaring it to be wrong or amoral or sneaky or dangerously aggressive that borders on absurd self martyrdom.


Also I meant i get your side as in your point, not that you are on a specific side of the NFL politicking thing.

You can still value freedom and be upset when someone uses that freedom in a way you don't like.  I am a firm believer that private citizens should be able to own any non-automatic firearm, but I also understand that some people will abuse that freedom.  When a person uses a firearm in a way I don't like I will absolutely criticize them, or more, for it.  That doesn't mean I dislike that basic freedom.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-16-2020, 12:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Murphy Brown having a child out of wedlock was shoving immorality down viewers throats.

Two guys kissing on Will and Grace was shoving homosexuality down viewers throats.

Thin skinned people who can not tolerate the opinions of others have been crying about this stuff for generations.  

But, they kinda had a point. This country has more children out of wedlock and homosexualtiy is widely accepted.

Granted, you or I may think there's nothing wrong with either of those, but if you're argument is that there's nothing to be worried and/or that people are making mountains out of molehills, then you're own examples kinda prove you wrong.

[*Nately120*]

(09-16-2020, 12:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Patriotism isn't political, unless you believe that one party holds a monopoly on patriotism.

The Reagan era is when the genius marketing strategy of aligning faith and flag with the Republican party began.  

It has been way too effective to deny its existence as far as I see it.  

[*Nately120*]

(09-16-2020, 12:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You can still value freedom and be upset when someone uses that freedom in a way you don't like.  I am a firm believer that private citizens should be able to own any non-automatic firearm, but I also understand that some people will abuse that freedom.  When a person uses a firearm in a way I don't like I will absolutely criticize them, or more, for it.  That doesn't mean I dislike that basic freedom.

People can be upset, it's the desire to label dissenting opinions or statements as unfair or oppressive/unavoidable or outright detrimental that is the issue.

People don't want to silence the opposition because they hate freedom, people "have" to silence thrm for the good of the nation. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-16-2020, 12:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: But, they kinda had a point. This country has more children out of wedlock and homosexualtiy is widely accepted.

Granted, you or I may think there's nothing wrong with either of those, but if you're argument is that there's nothing to be worried and/or that people are making mountains out of molehills, then you're own examples kinda prove you wrong.

People may be putting the cart before the horse on this one.  It's possible Murphy Brown had that character/storyline because more people were accepting such life circumstances rather than people saw it on TV and decided to follow suit.

The media is an easy scapegoat for stuff, too. This county cut a lot of mental health initiatives and safety nets around the same time people were claiming that violent video games were causing everyone to suddenly go crazy, and so on.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-16-2020, 12:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's not my side, I don't really give a shit, I just get why it would bother the people it bothers.  Your second point is an interesting one given the current backlash against Cuties on the grounds that it promotes pedophilia.


Oh man, I had totally forgotten he dated her.  She was my first childhood crush, I had her poster on my wall for years.

I don’t remember those two dating, but I do remember he made some really stupid comments about Shield’s post partum depression and mental health in general based upon his Scientology beliefs.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-16-2020, 12:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Murphy Brown having a child out of wedlock was shoving immorality down viewers throats.

Two guys kissing on Will and Grace was shoving homosexuality down viewers throats.

Thin skinned people who can not tolerate the opinions of others have been crying about this stuff for generations.  Except in this case the "evil" being forced on them is working together to end racism. 

Working together to end racism is one thing.  Being told you have "White Privilege", that the police are systemically abusive, that police are systemically racist, that America is systemically racist, that America sucks and it's original sin is slavery and racism, we must pay reparations plus the rioting and looting and all that bulls!@t gets old real quick.
I was only bothered when I thought they were going to paint all of both end zones with huge messages or when I thought the players were going to be walking billboards for BLM like the NBA.  I still don't like the kneeling or staying in the locker room, but whatever.
You really like that thin skinned narrative.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-16-2020, 12:54 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I don’t remember those two dating, but I do remember he made some really stupid comments about Shield’s post partum depression and mental health in general based upon his Scientology beliefs.

Wait, now you're toying with me. 

Did they not date?  I didn't recall it, but you saying it (I think unintentionally at this point) made me think it happened.  Oh man, my not getting any sleep this week is really having an effect on my brain. 

[Mickeypoo]

(09-16-2020, 12:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Rep.

Everyone is "free" to agree with them.  Can't have anything political connected with a sporting even except forced actions of patriotism.  If anyone disagrees then "Get that son-of-a-***** out of there!"

Sad that love for your own Country has to be forced.  Ditka approves of that message!  lol.

[*Nately120*]

(09-16-2020, 01:07 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Working together to end racism is one thing.  Being told you have "White Privilege", that the police are systemically abusive, that police are systemically racist, that America is systemically racist, that America sucks and it's original sin is slavery and racism, we must pay reparations plus the rioting and looting and all that bulls!@t gets old real quick.

It's pretty typical to reiterate opposing viewpoints in the most extreme and unreasonable way possible, though.

(09-16-2020, 01:10 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Sad that love for your own Country has to be forced.  Ditka approves of that message!  lol.

Even if this is in jest it's a little much.  What is forced love?  Are you telling me that someone could force you to love ISIS?

[Mickeypoo]

(09-16-2020, 12:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People may be putting the cart before the horse on this one.  It's possible Murphy Brown had that character/storyline because more people were accepting such life circumstances rather than people saw it on TV and decided to follow suit.

The media is an easy scapegoat for stuff, too.  This county cut a lot of mental health initiatives and safety nets around the same time people were claiming that violent video games were causing everyone to suddenly go crazy, and so on.

I work at a Hospital in a very rural area and saw the results of the closing of both our in/out patient adult and in/out patient child psych units.  It was and is very sad.

[*Nately120*]

(09-16-2020, 01:15 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I work at a Hospital in a very rural area and saw the results of the closing of both our in/out patient adult and in/out patient child psych units.  It was and is very sad.

It's just too easy to pull the plug on stuff like this and declare that the people who fall through the cracks are failing due to their own lousy choices and bad decisions.  People's willingness to believe that other people fail because they choose to is so easy to weaponize.

Ah well.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-16-2020, 12:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can understand why stuff bothers people, it's just the penchant some folks have to declare themselves put-upon and oppressed that gets my eyes rolling. 

It just goes back to the whole idea that everyone has to claim to love freedom but also get upset that people use freedom to do or promote things they don't like. 

So I get why people don't like it, it's just the follow-up of declaring it to be wrong or amoral or sneaky or dangerously aggressive that borders on absurd self martyrdom.


Also I meant i get your side as in your point, not that you are on a specific side of the NFL politicking thing.

Personally I don’t really care. I think most things are meaningless. “End racism” behind the end zones? Everybody feel better now because I’m sure that’s super-effective?

[fredtoast]

(09-16-2020, 01:07 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Working together to end racism is one thing.  Being told you have "White Privilege", that the police are systemically abusive, that police are systemically racist, that America is systemically racist, that America sucks and it's original sin is slavery and racism, we must pay reparations plus the rioting and looting and all that bulls!@t gets old real quick.

But I did not see any of that at an NFL game.

Funny that the same people who elected a President based on his claim that America was messed up and he was the one to fix it now claim that no one sold be allowed to say that America is messed up.

Again it gets back to freedom only applies to people who agree with their side.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-16-2020, 01:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's pretty typical to reiterate opposing viewpoints in the most extreme and unreasonable way possible, though.



Even if this is in jest it's a little much.  What is forced love?  Are you telling me that someone could force you to love ISIS?

I was just making a point that those viewpoints are all over the media daily and I think people are starting to tire of it.

No, not in jest.  The forced part was in reply to what Fred said about forced love of Country. Not really sure how to answer that.  In my mind I can't understand how you (not "you") can't love your own Country.  Maybe you don't like everything, but to me it is sad if people truly feel no love for their own Country.

[fredtoast]

(09-16-2020, 01:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Personally I don’t really care. I think most things are meaningless. “End racism” behind the end zones?  Everybody feel better now because I’m sure that’s super-effective?

You have the right perspective.  Even though you think the message is not effective you are not losing your shit over how much it offends you.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-16-2020, 01:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's just too easy to pull the plug on stuff like this and declare that the people who fall through the cracks are failing due to their own lousy choices and bad decisions.  People's willingness to believe that other people fail because they choose to is so easy to weaponize.

Ah well.

Agree 100%. In our particular circumstances I believe it was a money issue.

[fredtoast]

(09-16-2020, 01:20 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: No, not in jest.  The forced part was in reply to what Fred said about forced love.  Not really sure how to answer that.  In my mind I can't understand how you (not "you") can't love your own Country.  Maybe you don't like everything, but to me it is sad if people truly feel no love for their own Country.

People who really love this country want to fix its problems.

It is like having an alcoholic brother.  It is possible to say he has a problem and still love him.  The people who stick their heads in the ground and say he is the greatest brother ever don't really love him.

[*Nately120*]

(09-16-2020, 01:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Personally I don’t really care. I think most things are meaningless. “End racism” behind the end zones?  Everybody feel better now because I’m sure that’s super-effective?

I guess, but that's another defense against someone else's initiative the whole "this isn't even going to do anything" defense.

It might be effective.  Sometimes people get more out of the less intrusive and over the top warnings and hearing something simple.  I can personally attest that my own softening in regards to my pro-gun control stance came from a single liberal saying "Hey, it's your right to own a gun and they can come in handy, so I can see why people have them" and not the 100 neo-cons who assured me someone was going to break into my house to murder me and I'd be singing the blues because I didn't have a gun.

But that's just one personal anecdote, but my point reminds.  You are saying you are sick of hearing that America is an ultra-racist hell hole for anyone but the whites, but you also think a simple statement of "end racism" in the endzone is too meaningless to be effective.


EDIT - SOrry, I seem to have assumed your reply was another from Mickeypoo.  Still, I can see how a less accusatory message like "end racism" could resonate, especially since so many people seem to feel personally attacked by this stuff.

[*bfine32*]

(09-16-2020, 01:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But I did not see any of that at an NFL game.

Funny that the same people who elected a President based on his claim that America was messed up and he was the one to fix it now claim that no one sold be allowed to say that America is messed up.

Again it gets back to freedom only applies to people who agree with their side.

You didn't see the Biden campaign messages that ran during the games?