Texas Governor Is Pissed At Biden's Border Policies

[GMDino]

If anyone is really interested in why we have a lot of the problems we do with "border control" I strongly suggest listening to this episode of "Revisionist History".

http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/25-general-chapman's-last-stand

Quote:"Good fences make good neighbors. Or maybe not."

General Leonard Chapman guided the Marines Corp through some of the most difficult years in its history. He was brilliant, organized, decisive and indefatigable. Then he turned his attention to the America’s immigration crisis. You think you want effective leadership? Be careful what you wish for.

Or we can just argue about stuff.  Whatever.

[Belsnickel]

(04-03-2021, 02:31 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: So all of you think you understand what's going on at the border better than THE ACTUAL GOVERNOR?!

I don't know if I understand it better, but I know that I don't look at it through a subjective lens that is purely related to the partisan affiliation I may hold and then make claims that are, at best, wildly inaccurate. I recognize, and will say, that there is a crisis at our border that has been decades long and that the Biden administration is ***** some things up. But, there is not an "open border policy" like you claimed, either, and if Abbot made that claim he is a partisan hack.

[*Nately120*]

(04-03-2021, 03:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: About things happening in their states that none of us are near?  Absolutely.  

Even democrat governors? 

[BFritz21]

(04-03-2021, 04:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't know if I understand it better, but I know that I don't look at it through a subjective lens that is purely related to the partisan affiliation I may hold and then make claims that are, at best, wildly inaccurate. I recognize, and will say, that there is a crisis at our border that has been decades long and that the Biden administration is ***** some things up. But, there is not an "open border policy" like you claimed, either, and if Abbot made that claim he is a partisan hack.

His claims are wildly inaccurate?  Which ones?  

If there's not an open border policy, why do all these migrants think that they can come?

(04-03-2021, 04:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Even democrat governors? 

Yes.

[Belsnickel]

(04-03-2021, 05:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: His claims are wildly inaccurate?  Which ones?  

I wasn't referring to his claims, necessarily. I don't know his claims because I'm not watching anything from Fox News, especially from Hannity.

(04-03-2021, 05:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If there's not an open border policy, why do all these migrants think that they can come?

You know how you and others on the right have been saying that the left wanted open borders? How you've been saying it for years because the GOP propaganda machine used that messaging to scare you and your fellow voters into voting against Democrats so the brown people won't get you? Seriously, that's what this messaging is rooted in. Anyway, because that messaging has been so pervasive, it's the messaging that people see in Central and South America. Democratic policies aren't for open borders and they never have been, but because the GOP has spread this misinformation for years it is what not only the Republican voters think, but it is the perception of people living in other countries that want to come here, thus making the border crisis even worse. Seriously, there have been policies that raised the refugee numbers and got rid of some of the restrictions on visas that the Trump administration put in place, but there is in no way an "open border."

[masonbengals fan]

The buck stops with Biden doesn't it ?

[Belsnickel]

(04-03-2021, 06:08 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: The buck stops with Biden doesn't it ?

With what?

[masonbengals fan]

He's the man in charge of the border isn't he? Him or his handlers. Their policies or changes in existing ones have further exacerbated this border mess. He's not Hitler but he's screwed this up obviously.

[Belsnickel]

(04-03-2021, 06:21 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: He's the man in charge of the border isn't he? Him or his handlers. Their policies or changes in existing ones have further exacerbated this border mess. He's not Hitler but he's screwed this up obviously.

His policies have exacerbated certain things, yes. I'm not arguing against that. However, the claims that he has "open border" policies are false and I'm not going to agree that he holds responsibility for a problem that right-wing media and politicians have created by spreading false information.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(04-03-2021, 06:21 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: He's the man in charge of the border isn't he?  Him or his handlers. Their policies or changes in existing ones have further exacerbated this border mess. He's not Hitler but he's screwed this up obviously.

Trump's policies seemed to be at Making America A Shithole So No One Wanted To Come Here. Biden's policies seemed to Rescue America and thus making the country respectable to the outside world once again. The horror.

[masonbengals fan]

Maybe it's only 98% open. I don't know the exact numbers. Hard to blame conservative media when this is what happened during the debates.



 What did people think would happen?

[Belsnickel]

(04-03-2021, 06:37 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Maybe it's only 98% open. I don't know the exact numbers. Hard to blame conservative media when this is what happened during the debates.



 What did people think would happen?

The border is only slightly more open than it was under Trump as we are accepting more refugees and not limiting visas as much. When you actually look at the policies the border did not open up much at all, but that's not the message from the right wing media and the people that pay attention to it.

As for the picture, I have no idea what that is in reference to. Debates are meaningless.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(04-03-2021, 06:37 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Maybe it's only 98% open. I don't know the exact numbers. Hard to blame conservative media when this is what happened during the debates.



 What did people think would happen?

Maybe provide a little more context? This looks like 10 people asking to go to the bathroom.

[masonbengals fan]

WASHINGTON (AP) — In one unanimous show of hands, Democratic presidential candidates moved the idea of full health insurance for people who are not legally in the United States into the political mainstream.



That debate night moment last week symbolized the party’s move to the left heading into a primary in which most candidates are trying to appeal to the progressive base. President Donald Trump immediately jumped on it to paint Democrats as extreme.

Even if Democrats win the White House and both chambers of Congress, coverage for unauthorized immigrants would mean reversing long-standing restrictions in the government’s main health insurance programs and a heated political battle — more so should Republicans retain Senate control.

The issue has been considered so politically sensitive that the ”Medicare for All ” bills in Congress don’t explicitly say they’d cover immigrants here without legal permission. Instead legislation from Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and a House counterpart calls for covering every U.S. “resident” and delegating the nation’s health to define that term.

The Senate bill has been endorsed by several of Sanders’ rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination, including Sens. Cory Booker of New Jersey, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Kamala Harris of California and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts.

Debating in Miami last week, Democrats argued that all Americans would be better off if everyone in the country had medical care. They pointed out that most immigrants are working and paying taxes that support programs such as Medicare and Social Security.

“You cannot let people who are sick, no matter where they come from, no matter what their status, go uncovered,” former Vice President Joe Biden said.

Biden’s approach calls for building on the Obama-era law he helped to pass, which now denies benefits to immigrants living in the country without permission.

It wouldn’t be a freebie, argued South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, who has talked about a buy-in plan.

“They pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes directly or indirectly,” Buttigieg said. “This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program.”

Other Democrats say program design could lead to broader public acceptance.

“If it is clear that they are paying for it, they could be getting basic care and avoid being in the emergency room at taxpayer expense,” said Rep. Ro Khanna, D-Calif.

Trump all but thanked the 10 Democrats on the debate stage.

“All Democrats just raised their hands for giving millions of illegal aliens unlimited healthcare,” he wrote on Twitter. “How about taking care of American Citizens first!? That’s the end of that race!”

A CNN poll raised a warning flag that echoed Trump’s dismissive tweet: Among all Americans, 59% were opposed, while 38% were in favor.

But Democrats had a different view. Roughly 6 in 10 Democratic voters for government health insurance coverage for people in the country illegally. The poll also highlighted a generational difference. Democrats under 45 supported coverage by 70% to 29% while those 45 and older were more closely divided, 55% to 41%.

For now, flagship federal health programs remain off limits to all but U.S. citizens and legal residents. That includes Medicare, Medicaid, Children’s Health Insurance and the Obama-era Affordable Care Act. Congress even forbade unauthorized immigrants to buy ACA coverage with their own money.

America doesn’t slam the door completely. Federally funded community health centers provide basic medical care to the uninsured without asking immigration questions. Hospital emergency rooms are required by law to treat and stabilize all patients, with government subsidizing the cost. Some states, like California, use their own funds to cover children regardless of immigration status.

Of the 10 million to 11 million immigrants in the country without legal permission, many appear to have private coverage. The Kaiser Family Foundation estimates that roughly 4 million people are uninsured because of immigration status, while the Migration Policy Institute has a higher number, nearly 6 million. Both are nonpartisan research organizations.

Opponents of covering unauthorized immigrants say it will only encourage more migration — a potential problem supporters of the idea have acknowledged. The Medicare for All bills call for measures to deter immigration for the “sole purpose” of getting free medical care.

“Adopting subsidized major health care programs for illegal aliens serves as the ultimate ‘pull factor’ for migrants and would exacerbate our nation’s border crisis,” said R.J. Hauman of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which supports curbs on immigration.

Cost is another factor. Hauman said it would be a new “multi-billion dollar” expense for taxpayers. However, independent experts at the Kaiser Foundation and Migration Policy say there’s no authoritative number because the question hasn’t been rigorously researched.

Randy Capps, a senior researcher with the Migration Policy Institute, said immigrants living in the country illegally are generally a younger population, so bringing them into the private insurance system could also help with costs.

“Undocumented immigrants are disproportionately young and healthy,” Capps said. “From the point of view of providing preventive and primary care to a large group of people who are younger and healthier now but might get sicker later, it makes sense.”

https://apnews.com/article/ba79e0b64af24ce68f91e1f2d58b0bde

 I'm in no way blaming these people trying to better their lives. They just want a better life. 
As we all do.

[Belsnickel]

(04-03-2021, 07:00 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: WASHINGTON (AP) — In one unanimous show of hands, Democratic presidential candidates moved the idea of full health insurance for people who are not legally in the United States into the political mainstream.



That debate night moment last week symbolized the party’s move to the left heading into a primary in which most candidates are trying to appeal to the progressive base. President Donald Trump immediately jumped on it to paint Democrats as extreme.

Even if Democrats win the White House and both chambers of Congress, coverage for unauthorized immigrants would mean reversing long-standing restrictions in the government’s main health insurance programs and a heated political battle — more so should Republicans retain Senate control.

The issue has been considered so politically sensitive that the ”Medicare for All ” bills in Congress don’t explicitly say they’d cover immigrants here without legal permission. Instead legislation from Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and a House counterpart calls for covering every U.S. “resident” and delegating the nation’s health to define that term.

The Senate bill has been endorsed by several of Sanders’ rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination, including Sens. Cory Booker of New Jersey, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Kamala Harris of California and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts.

Debating in Miami last week, Democrats argued that all Americans would be better off if everyone in the country had medical care. They pointed out that most immigrants are working and paying taxes that support programs such as Medicare and Social Security.

“You cannot let people who are sick, no matter where they come from, no matter what their status, go uncovered,” former Vice President Joe Biden said.

Biden’s approach calls for building on the Obama-era law he helped to pass, which now denies benefits to immigrants living in the country without permission.

It wouldn’t be a freebie, argued South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, who has talked about a buy-in plan.

“They pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes directly or indirectly,” Buttigieg said. “This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program.”

Other Democrats say program design could lead to broader public acceptance.

“If it is clear that they are paying for it, they could be getting basic care and avoid being in the emergency room at taxpayer expense,” said Rep. Ro Khanna, D-Calif.

Trump all but thanked the 10 Democrats on the debate stage.

“All Democrats just raised their hands for giving millions of illegal aliens unlimited healthcare,” he wrote on Twitter. “How about taking care of American Citizens first!? That’s the end of that race!”

A CNN poll raised a warning flag that echoed Trump’s dismissive tweet: Among all Americans, 59% were opposed, while 38% were in favor.

But Democrats had a different view. Roughly 6 in 10 Democratic voters for government health insurance coverage for people in the country illegally. The poll also highlighted a generational difference. Democrats under 45 supported coverage by 70% to 29% while those 45 and older were more closely divided, 55% to 41%.

For now, flagship federal health programs remain off limits to all but U.S. citizens and legal residents. That includes Medicare, Medicaid, Children’s Health Insurance and the Obama-era Affordable Care Act. Congress even forbade unauthorized immigrants to buy ACA coverage with their own money.

America doesn’t slam the door completely. Federally funded community health centers provide basic medical care to the uninsured without asking immigration questions. Hospital emergency rooms are required by law to treat and stabilize all patients, with government subsidizing the cost. Some states, like California, use their own funds to cover children regardless of immigration status.

Of the 10 million to 11 million immigrants in the country without legal permission, many appear to have private coverage. The Kaiser Family Foundation estimates that roughly 4 million people are uninsured because of immigration status, while the Migration Policy Institute has a higher number, nearly 6 million. Both are nonpartisan research organizations.

Opponents of covering unauthorized immigrants say it will only encourage more migration — a potential problem supporters of the idea have acknowledged. The Medicare for All bills call for measures to deter immigration for the “sole purpose” of getting free medical care.

“Adopting subsidized major health care programs for illegal aliens serves as the ultimate ‘pull factor’ for migrants and would exacerbate our nation’s border crisis,” said R.J. Hauman of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which supports curbs on immigration.

Cost is another factor. Hauman said it would be a new “multi-billion dollar” expense for taxpayers. However, independent experts at the Kaiser Foundation and Migration Policy say there’s no authoritative number because the question hasn’t been rigorously researched.

Randy Capps, a senior researcher with the Migration Policy Institute, said immigrants living in the country illegally are generally a younger population, so bringing them into the private insurance system could also help with costs.

“Undocumented immigrants are disproportionately young and healthy,” Capps said. “From the point of view of providing preventive and primary care to a large group of people who are younger and healthier now but might get sicker later, it makes sense.”

https://apnews.com/article/ba79e0b64af24ce68f91e1f2d58b0bde

 I'm in no way blaming these people trying to better their lives. They just want a better life. 
As we all do.

So, what does that have to do with open borders? That, if it happened, would not be a policy change that opened the borders.

[masonbengals fan]

I'm not even going to bother. Your right, it all Trumps fault. Him, his minions or the right wing media. Anybody other than the people currently in charge and those who voted for them.

[hollodero]

(04-03-2021, 07:12 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I'm not even going to bother. Your right, it all Trumps fault. Him, his minions or the right wing media. Anybody other than the people currently in charge and those who voted for him.

It's a bit hard to follow you here. For one, there was plenty admission that Biden's administration is at some fault and bears some responsibility. That was stated clearly.

And it is more than any Trump supporter ever would admit when it came to the Trump administration. When even the implementation of a family separation policy got blamed on Obama. Along with everything else. Truth probably is that every administration inherited kind of a mess and left one. Very much including Trump.

But there's indeed no such thing as an "open border policy". It's tough to argue with someone who makes accepting that faulty term as truth a condition for his ongoing participation in a debate.

[masonbengals fan]

(04-03-2021, 07:28 PM)hollodero Wrote: It's a bit hard to follow you here. For one, there was plenty admission that Biden's administration is at some fault and bears some responsibility. That was stated clearly.

And it is more than any Trump supporter ever would admit when it came to the Trump administration. When even the implementation of a family separation policy got blamed on Obama. Along with everything else. Truth probably is that every administration inherited kind of a mess and left one. Very much including Trump.

But there's indeed no such thing as an "open border policy". It's tough to argue with someone who makes accepting that faulty term as truth a condition for his ongoing participation in a debate.

What are we arguing. Our southern border is currently a mess. We all agree. Our disagreement lies in the fact some people see it as the conservative media's fault for sensationalizing it where in I say the people in charge should hold the blame. The media holds the blame for a lot of things in this country but they don't make policy changes. Politicians do. Biden is the boss. The big guy. The buck stops with him. He can & should implement the changes needed whatever they may be to fix it. I wish him success. You can call it an open border or not I don't care what you call it. Whatever the term used it's a freaking mess.

[hollodero]

(04-03-2021, 07:39 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: What are we arguing. Our southern border is currently a mess. We all agree. Our disagreement lies in the fact some people see it as the conservative media's fault for sensationalizing it where in I say the people in charge should hold the blame.

Why can't both be true to some extent?
The conservative media, imho, does play a part, with some deliberate misinformation and some disingenuous spins and then some. Agree or don't, but it is a fair point - just as claiming Biden's admin ultimately has to shoulder responsibility is a fair point. They are not mutually exclusive.

(04-03-2021, 07:39 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: You can call it an open border or not I don't care what you call it. 

Well, then I'd rather not, for open borders imho means something completely different from what is happening at the US-Mexico border. The term is, probably deliberately, misleading and a small example of what the right wing media is doing.

[masonbengals fan]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/biden-stands-down-at-the-border

This pretty much sums it up. Looks to me like terminating the remain in Mexico policy was the major factor along with the pause on deportations.

The media didn't make those changes Biden did.