The Abortion Question

[GMDino]

(10-07-2015, 07:49 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: She gave permission when she had sex, and didn't terminate the baby before it formed a brain. Things have consequences, and if you can't be responsible then you have to deal with what happens. There are a ton of ways to prevent pregnancy. Pills, condoms, morning after pills, patches, implants, IUDs, Diaphragms, ect. There are also pregnancy tests and things like that too.

So women are simply incubators with no rights over their own bodies once they have sex.

[Brownshoe]

(10-07-2015, 07:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: So women are simply incubators with no rights over their own bodies once they have sex.

[GMDino]

Lets review what YOU said:

(10-07-2015, 07:49 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: She gave permission when she had sex, and didn't terminate the baby before it formed a brain. Things have consequences, and if you can't be responsible then you have to deal with what happens. There are a ton of ways to prevent pregnancy. Pills, condoms, morning after pills, patches, implants, IUDs, Diaphragms, ect. There are also pregnancy tests and things like that too.

YOU said that the woman must not have been responsible because there are SO many ways to prevent a pregnancy. So I replied:

(10-07-2015, 07:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: So women are simply incubators with no rights over their own bodies once they have sex.

Now either you meant what I said and if a woman accidentally gets pregnant she has no choice but be a human incubator because you said so or you think that if they ARE responsible and take every possible step to avoid being pregnant and STILL get pregnant than an abortion is ok...since they were being "responsible".

So you could explain what you mean or you could keep looking foolish. Your choice.

[Brownshoe]

(10-07-2015, 09:01 AM)GMDino Wrote: Lets review what YOU said:

YOU said that the woman must not have been responsible because there are SO many ways to prevent a pregnancy.  So I replied:


Now either you meant what I said and if a woman accidentally gets pregnant she has no choice but be a human incubator because you said so or you think that if they ARE responsible and take every possible step to avoid being pregnant and STILL get pregnant than an abortion is ok...since they were being "responsible".

So you could explain what you mean or you could keep looking foolish.  Your choice.

You're not going to get pregnant if you have the guy wear a condom, take the pill properly, and take the morning after pill. The probability of you still getting pregnant is pretty much 0, unless you don't follow the directions, or if you misuse them.

[GMDino]

(10-07-2015, 09:12 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: You're not going to get pregnant if you have the guy wear a condom, take the pill properly, and take the morning after pill. The probability of you still getting pregnant is pretty much 0, unless you don't follow the directions, or if you misuse them.

99% =/= 100%

So do you think if they take every precaution should a woman have no control over her own body?  

For the record my wife got pregnant with our second child while on the pill.  

[Belsnickel]

(10-07-2015, 07:49 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: She gave permission when she had sex, and didn't terminate the baby before it formed a brain. Things have consequences, and if you can't be responsible then you have to deal with what happens. There are a ton of ways to prevent pregnancy. Pills, condoms, morning after pills, patches, implants, IUDs, Diaphragms, ect. There are also pregnancy tests and things like that too.

As much as you want to claim this, that is not the case. Even with precautions things can happen. Sometimes women don't know they are pregnant for at least a month. There are a number of things there that make this a ridiculous position. Having sex does not give consent for the pregnancy by default. Terminating an unwanted pregnancy is taking responsibility. It's not an easy decision for any woman, it's not painless, it is not without risk, and it isn't cheap.

[Brownshoe]

(10-07-2015, 09:18 AM)GMDino Wrote: 99% =/= 100%

So do you think if they take every precaution should a woman have no control over her own body?  

For the record my wife got pregnant with our second child while on the pill.  

From just the pill that's a .1% chance not a 1% chance if used properly. Should have used a condom too.

It takes time for the fertilized egg to grow enough to have a brain, so she should be able to take pregnancy tests too. There are too many tools to ever get pregnant, and then wait until it would be too late to get an abortion. If you want to do anything you have to prepare for the consequences. If you bring a human life into the world you can't just kill it just because it will inconvenience you.

[Brownshoe]

(10-07-2015, 09:27 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: As much as you want to claim this, that is not the case. Even with precautions things can happen. Sometimes women don't know they are pregnant for at least a month. There are a number of things there that make this a ridiculous position. Having sex does not give consent for the pregnancy by default.

How does it not give consent by default? Everyone knows what the outcome of sex can be, and they still do it. If you want to roll the dice I'm not going to stop you, but you shouldn't complain when you get unlucky (which is almost 0% when you use everything properly).

[GMDino]

(10-07-2015, 09:18 AM)GMDino Wrote: 99% =/= 100%

So do you think if they take every precaution should a woman have no control over her own body?  

For the record my wife got pregnant with our second child while on the pill.  

(10-07-2015, 09:28 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: From just the pill that's a .1% chance not a 1% chance if used properly. Should have used a condom too.

It takes time for the fertilized egg to grow enough to have a brain, so she should be able to take pregnancy tests too. There are too many tools to ever get pregnant, and then wait until it would be too late to get an abortion. If you want to do anything you have to prepare for the consequences. If you bring a human life into the world you can't just kill it just because it will inconvenience you.

That does not answer the question.  It restates what you said earlier.  As I don't want to create a "strawman" argument please answer directly.  Thanks.

[Brownshoe]

(10-07-2015, 09:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: That does not answer the question.  It restates what you said earlier.  As I don't want to create a "strawman" argument please answer directly.  Thanks.

If she took every precaution she wouldn't need to have an abortion after it has brain activity.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-07-2015, 07:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: So women are simply incubators with no rights over their own bodies once they have sex.

Except the fetus isn't a part of their own body. It's separate.

[Blutarsky]

(10-07-2015, 09:18 AM)GMDino Wrote: 99% =/= 100%

So do you think if they take every precaution should a woman have no control over her own body?  

For the record my wife got pregnant with our second child while on the pill.  

Why didn't you kill it?

Probably because you knew there was another human inside her... it wasn't her "own body".

[SteelCitySouth]

(10-07-2015, 09:44 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Except the fetus isn't a part of their own body. It's separate.

So then you have no issues with the attachment being separated, since that is a part of the woman's body.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-07-2015, 10:09 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: So then you have no issues with the attachment being separated, since that is a part of the woman's body.

If the separation doesn't kill the "attachment", then no I wouldn't have any issues but considering that it does and the end result is that a human being ceases to exist, I'm surprised MORE people don't have an issue with it.

[SteelCitySouth]

(10-07-2015, 10:14 AM)PhilHos Wrote: If the separation doesn't kill the "attachment", then no I wouldn't have any issues but considering that it does and the end result is that a human being ceases to exist, I'm surprised MORE people don't have an issue with it.

I think you may be surprised to know that your assertion is quite incorrect. 

[GMDino]

(10-07-2015, 09:39 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: If she took every precaution she wouldn't need to have an abortion after it has brain activity.

And you still cannot / will not answer the question.  Thanks.

(10-07-2015, 09:44 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Except the fetus isn't a part of their own body. It's separate.

Except that its the woman's body keeping the fetus alive.

(10-07-2015, 10:07 AM)Blutarsky Wrote: Why didn't you kill it?

Probably because you knew there was another human inside her... it wasn't her "own body".

Because we wanted to have the child.  We made...wait for it...a choice. 

All seriousness aside I would not have chosen an abortion under any circumstance.  I, however, do not get to make that decision for anyone else.

Also, both of our children were born at 26 1/2 weeks due to my wife's problems with the pregnancy.  I've seen the struggles to keep a baby that size (2-1/2 lbs and 1-1/2 lbs respectively) alive.  And the cost.  We had to choose to take that risk to save my wife's life with the second child.  If he had not made it...would we have been shamed for it?  No, it was not an abortion.  There was no going in saying the fetus would not be kept alive...but we had to choose to hope that the technology could keep him alive because we chose to save my wife.  (Its a long, long story.)

[fredtoast]

(10-07-2015, 03:45 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: 1. No you cant. You need to look up renter rights and squatter rights.

Maybe you should look them up.  you have no clue what you are talking about if you think "renters rights" and/or "squatters rights" mean that i can't tell people to leave my house whenever I want.

Renters rights have to do with contract law, not "permission to live in my house", and generally "squatters rights" have to do with people who are occupying property with no permission from the owner.


But maybe you think you can just go to court and explain to them that "common sense" is all that matters, and that you are the only one who can decide what common sense means.  Seems like every time you get stumped in this thread that is what you fall back on.

[fredtoast]

(10-07-2015, 07:49 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: She gave permission when she had sex, and didn't terminate the baby before it formed a brain. Things have consequences, and if you can't be responsible then you have to deal with what happens. 

None of this is grounds to terminate a persons rights.

If I do not put an alarm on my car does that mean I give up my rights to it?  If I don't park it in a garage every night does that mean I give up my rights of possession?

[*bfine32*]

(10-07-2015, 09:01 AM)GMDino Wrote: Lets review what YOU said:

YOU said that the woman must not have been responsible because there are SO many ways to prevent a pregnancy.  So I replied:


Now either you meant what I said and if a woman accidentally gets pregnant she has no choice but be a human incubator because you said so or you think that if they ARE responsible and take every possible step to avoid being pregnant and STILL get pregnant than an abortion is ok...since they were being "responsible".

So you could explain what you mean or you could keep looking foolish.  Your choice.

If I “accidentally’ kill someone while participating in activities that could lead to his or her death, should I be responsible for the death? Or can I claim “It was an accident, please absolve me of any responsibility?”  

I totally agree that the woman should not be held responsible for an activity she did not willingly participate in.  I’m just not sure we should give her free rein to kill the baby because of “oops, I did it again”.

[fredtoast]

(10-07-2015, 11:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I totally agree that the woman should not be held responsible for an activity she did not willingly participate in.  I’m just not sure we should give her free rein to kill the baby because of “oops, I did it again”.

Be careful what you wish for.

If we take freedom and individual rights away from everyone who makes a mistake it might happen to you.

You have made a few mistakes in your life haven't you?