The Fight Against Fascists (I Can't Believe This Exists)

[Wes Mantooth]

Here's a clip from Brian Williams and MSNBC, with a video produced by the Lincoln project.  Please watch the whole thing and tell me your thoughts.  (It's only like 2 minutes long)

It seems outrageous to me that something like this was not only produced but was given the go ahead to be put on air.  They took a day that should be about remembering the unbelievable strength, and courage and sacrfices made, and used it as parralel to modern day issues and Antifa.  Flashing imagery of Trump and Tucker Carlson, while showing Nazi symbols and talking about a war against inhumanity and dictators, this seems almost unbelievable to me.

See what you think...

[img]

The work of fighting fascism has always been our nation’s greatest project — in 1944 and today.

Thanks to Brian Williams for marking #DDay on @11thHour with our new ad ? pic.twitter.com/S5i9ySQtqZ

— The Lincoln Project (@ProjectLincoln) June 5, 2021

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> [/img]

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Most Antifa are larping idiots. They are as "anti fascist" as North Korea is a Democratic Republic. What they really are are political terrorists who attack anyone who does not fully adhere to their particular line of bullshit.

[Wes Mantooth]

Fwiw, I figured this was one of those special videos that almost all of us could agree on, and would denounce the comparisons being made.

Did I figure wrong? Are you guys ok with this?

[Dill]

(06-07-2021, 11:36 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: It seems outrageous to me that something like this was not only produced but was given the go ahead to be put on air.  They took a day that should be about remembering the unbelievable strength, and courage and sacrfices made, and used it as parralel to modern day issues and Antifa.  Flashing imagery of Trump and Tucker Carlson, while showing Nazi symbols and talking about a war against inhumanity and dictators, this seems almost unbelievable to me.

I'd say we are living in a time when attraction to authoritarianism and neo-fascism has again become a domestic and international problem, such that we need to learn what we can from the history of events and movements that led to the greatest disaster humanity has ever experienced. 

So I'd definitely say that when remembering D-Day and WWII, we absolutely should be remembering it as a war against fascism. Four hundred thousand Americans died fighting anti-democratic and racist states, and that also became a spur to fighting anti-democratic/racist forces at home. We should not be recognizing "sacrifices" separate from the context which required them.

I'd also definitely say, however, that the Lincoln Project video's opening question "Who is ANTIFA?" tanks the whole effort by conflating a small group of masked actors with the U.S. military forces that helped free Europe.  The newsreels show U.S. infantry in olive-drab pushing across Europe, not black clad youngsters in ski masks throwing bricks.  

The conflation also gives ANTIFA tactics a silent pass by suggesting that all of us anti-fascists are really doing what they are doing. We're not. And that all people who support anti-fascist politics and activism are ANTIFA at heart. We aren't. 

In short, that video will have the opposite effect intended. If I'm Hannity, Tucker, Laura, Levin, I'm saying cancel tonight's segment on Critical Race Theory and indoctrination, the "elite" liberal media have just provided a new example of how "the left" is revising history, undermining American values, and smearing honest patriots.

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2021, 02:14 PM)Dill Wrote: I'd say we are living in a time when attraction to authoritarianism and neo-fascism has again become a domestic and international problem, such that we need to learn what we can from the history of events and movements that led to the greatest disaster humanity has ever experienced. 

Even if you believe that to be true, can we agree that using the events of WWII to create a parallel to the issues today is not only wrong but is in incredibly poor taste, especially on the anniversary of D-Day?

Showing soldiers walking over Nazi branded materials, actual dictators, and a freaking emaciated corpse before saying "and this is still a fight that is going on today" and then flashing an image of Trump and Tucker Carlson is legit, disgusting propoganda.

I legitimately cannot believe this is how bad things have gotten, that something like this can be produced and there's not national outrage.  To quote Mugatu; "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills."

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2021, 02:14 PM)Dill Wrote: In short, that video will have the opposite effect intended. If I'm Hannity, Tucker, Laura, Levin, I'm saying cancel tonight's segment on Critical Race Theory and indoctrination, the "elite" liberal media have just provided a new example of how "the left" is revising history, undermining American values, and smearing honest patriots.

I'd say it's going to have to exact effect intended.  Ultra-left leaning productions and reports like these are only going to embloden certain people, and legitimize their beliefs that we're truly in a war and that those that oppose them are akin to Nazis.  It's dangerous and it should be called out just as much as should the things you seen from the other extreme.

I've said before on here, but it absolutely astonishes me how casually people throw around terms like this (nazi, fascist).  I'm not sure if these people just have no understanding of history, or if they do and they just don't care as long as it advances their agenda.  And I'm not sure which one is scarier either. (Ignorance or manipulation of the facts)

Trump the fascist, his supports the nazis... meanwhile almost every nightly talk shows rips on him, he's skewered daily for 4 years on on all forms of media, and you have "comedians" like Kathy Griffen taking pictures of herself holding a dummy that's made to look like his bloody, severed head.  And this guy is a modern day fascist?

As far as the Fox News stuff, I'm sure they will run with it and no one really care outside of their usual demographic.  Someone like Brad will share it and it will get dismissed from someone like Fred just because of the source.

[treee]

(06-07-2021, 02:55 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Even if you believe that to be true, can we agree that using the events of WWII to create a parallel to the issues today is not only wrong but is in incredibly poor taste, especially on the anniversary of D-Day?

Showing soldiers walking over Nazi branded materials, actual dictators, and a freaking emaciated corpse before saying "and this is still a fight that is going on today" and then flashing an image of Trump and Tucker Carlson is legit, disgusting propoganda.

I legitimately cannot believe this is how bad things have gotten, that something like this can be produced and there's not national outrage.  To quote Mugatu; "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills."

trump is a facist. He has used facist rhetoric many times and tried his best to subvert the democratic process. And they weren't calling carlson a facist, they used his face when saying " not just a news talking point". 

[Arturo Bandini]

Two faces of the same coin but they are definitely outnumbered by the number of the far right people.

I'm not sure there are Antifa in the police, in justice, at the parliament.

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2021, 03:09 PM)treee Wrote: trump is a facist. He has used facist rhetoric many times and tried his best to subvert the democratic process. And they weren't calling carlson a facist, they used his face when saying " not just a news talking point". 

I find it interesting, with the video that was provided and all of the discussion to be had, that you immediately jumped on this. 

We'll have to agree to disgree on the dangers of equating that word with Donald Trump in coversations that have clear references to Adolph Hitler and Mussolini.
 

Do you have any thoughts on the video?  Will you denounce the parralel made between the storming of Normandy, the fight against the Nazis and modern day issues?  Or are you ok with it?

I'm genuinly curious.  And frankly I'm surpised with the amount of views this thread has gotten at how many people are abstaining from giving an actual opinion on it.  I honestly thought that the overwhelming majority of this forum, it not a consensus, would agree that this video was disgusting.  I guess I was wrong.

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2021, 03:43 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Two faces of the same coin but they are definitely outnumbered by the number of the far right people.

I'm not sure there are Antifa in the police, in justice, at the parliament.

I'm struggling to understand your point.  Would you care to clarify a bit? 

What did you think of the video?  Do you think it is a "fight that is still going on today"?

Fwiw, I was truly looking forward towards yours and the other poster in Austria's thoughts on this.  I believe you're from France, no?  I kinda figured that you and someone from Austria could provide some serious perspective on WWII vs. today.

[treee]

(06-07-2021, 03:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I find it interesting, with the video that was provided and all of the discussion to be had, that you immediately jumped on this. 

We'll have to agree to disgree on the dangers of equating that word with Donald Trump in coversations that have clear references to Adolph Hitler and Mussolini.
 

Do you have any thoughts on the video?  Will you denounce the parralel made between the storming of Normandy, the fight against the Nazis and modern day issues?  Or are you ok with it?

I'm genuinly curious.  And frankly I'm surpised with the amount of views this thread has gotten at how many people are abstaining from giving an actual opinion on it.  I honestly thought that the overwhelming majority of this forum, it not a consensus, would agree that this video was disgusting.  I guess I was wrong.

The comparison doesn't bother me, no. I guess his retweet of a person saying "the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat" is still fresh in my mind.

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2021, 04:02 PM)treee Wrote: The comparison doesn't bother me, no.  I guess his retweet of a person saying "the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat" is still fresh in my mind.

The comparison was between US soldiers who stormed Normandy, who fought against actual Nazis to help liberate mutiple countries and millions upon millions of people, and Antifa and modern events.

Just so I'm clear, you have no issue with this comparison?  And your reasoning is a Trump retweet?

[Arturo Bandini]

(06-07-2021, 03:50 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm struggling to understand your point.  Would you care to clarify a bit? 

What did you think of the video?  Do you think it is a "fight that is still going on today"?

Fwiw, I was truly looking forward towards yours and the other poster in Austria's thoughts on this.  I believe you're from France, no?  I kinda figured that you and someone from Austria could provide some serious perspective on WWII vs. today.

We have a reach of right wing people too in Europe, it is coming back but it reaches its own limits because our electing system is quite different than yours. There are a bunch of political parties and far right can't come to any majority in major elections.

Antifa are an insignificant politic force, they break things during riots but you know, in France, it's any given saturday, there are protests on daily basis, strikes and who knows what but it's our thing to take the streets.

Right wing people are way more organized politicaly and manage to take the power. Antifa is a politcal powerless movement.

[treee]

(06-07-2021, 04:11 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The comparison was between US soldiers who stormed Normandy, who fought against actual Nazis to help liberate mutiple countries and millions upon millions of people, and Antifa and modern events.

Just so I'm clear, you have no issue with this comparison?  And your reasoning is a Trump retweet?

They're saying that the soldiers were the original antifascists and outlining our countries past self definition to largely be against fascism. If you want to interpret it in a very specific way so that it is offensive then that is on you.

[*Nately120*]

We need to invade and liberate the USA to save them from antifa and qanon.

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2021, 04:18 PM)treee Wrote: They're saying that the soldiers were the original antifascists and outlining our countries past self definition to largely be against fascism. If you want to interpret it in a very specific way so that it is offensive then that is on you.

Did you watch the video?  I'm not sure there's any other way to interept it.

They clearly stated "a fight that is still going on today" and then showed an image of Antifa, followed by images of Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson.

I mean seriously, what are we even talking about here?  It's not like I'm going out of my way to connect the dots.  I don't know how anyone can't be apalled by a parallel being made between these brave soldiers, the sickening events that surrounded WWII, and the issues that we are currently facing.

[treee]

(06-07-2021, 04:36 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Did you watch the video?  I'm not sure there's any other way to interept it.

They clearly stated "a fight that is still going on today" and then showed an image of Antifa, followed by images of Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson.

I mean seriously, what are we even talking about here?  It's not like I'm going out of my way to connect the dots.  I don't know how anyone can't be apalled by a parallel being made between these brave soldiers, the sickening events that surrounded WWII, and the issues that we are currently facing.

One of our political parties is still beholden to a facist, so yes it is a fight that is going on today. But even trump aside, democracy itself is a constant struggle against fascism. It is a struggle that will literally never end as long as humans have the tribal brains that they do.

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2021, 04:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We need to invade and liberate the USA to save them from antifa and qanon.

Create a modern day version of what England did with Australia and just send them all there.

Build a wall (hear me out)  around North Dakota and round up every Antifa and Qanon ******* and put them in there.  Then clear out a sizeable portion of the prison system, those that facing 40+ year sentences and throw them in the mix too.  Someone gets sentenced to death?  Not anymore they don't.  They get sentenced to North Dakota.  Someone tweets about Pizzagate?  North Dakota.  Someone wearing all black with a megaphone, umbrella, and a brick.  North Dakota.

[*Nately120*]

(06-07-2021, 04:44 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Create a modern day version of what England did with Australia and just send them all there.

Build a wall (hear me out)  around North Dakota and round up every Antifa and Qanon ******* and put them in there.  Then clear out a sizeable portion of the prison system, those that facing 40+ year sentences and throw them in the mix too.  Someone gets sentenced to death?  Not anymore they don't.  They get sentenced to North Dakota.  Someone tweets about Pizzagate?  North Dakota.  Someone wearing all black with a megaphone, umbrella, and a brick.  North Dakota.

North Dakota finally gets something interesting.  

[Belsnickel]

(06-07-2021, 03:07 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'd say it's going to have to exact effect intended.  Ultra-left leaning productions and reports like these are only going to embloden certain people, and legitimize their beliefs that we're truly in a war and that those that oppose them are akin to Nazis.  It's dangerous and it should be called out just as much as should the things you seen from the other extreme.

So, The Lincoln Project is a conservative group. The folks who made that ad were making ads for the GOP before Trump took hold of the party. I just want to make sure you understand that. They are in no way on the left, let alone the ultra-left. They aren't even centrist. They are anti-Trump conservatives.

(06-07-2021, 03:09 PM)treee Wrote: trump is a facist. He has used facist rhetoric many times and tried his best to subvert the democratic process. And they weren't calling carlson a facist, they used his face when saying " not just a news talking point". 

No, Trump isn't a fascist. Did he embrace some fascist ideas? Sure. Did he press up against that line? Absolutely. But most experts on fascism I've read say that he didn't cross that line into being fascist by definition. I will say, though, that I think Trump wants to be a fascist dictator, he just doesn't understand how antithetical to everything the idea of the United States stands for his vision is.