The Mueller Report thread

[Vas Deferens]

Why hasn’t daddy dropped the hammer on Russia yet?

[GMDino]

Man, there might an obstruction case in there....but I don't know if it is worth the effort knowing that the GOP will never, ever do anything to uspet the Trump Cult.

Mueller: After telling McGahn to get the special counsel fired, Trump told McGahn to deny reports that he had done so.

McGahn also told Mueller that Trump scolded him for taking notes, saying, "Lawyers don't take notes. I never had a lawyer who took notes." pic.twitter.com/4cdVfcm0ik

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) April 18, 2019

 

[GMDino]

Mueller report documents that White House flatly lied to cover up fact that Trump made the decision to fire Comey.

First screen cap: Trump makes decision.

Second screen cap: Trump tries to get Rosenstein to say it was his decision. He refuses, but WH spox says it publicly. pic.twitter.com/oM9Upqsy1M

— Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) April 18, 2019

[GMDino]

Barr: I didn’t get the impression Mueller wanted to kick this to Congress.

Mueller:

“We concluded that Congress has the authority to prohibit a President's corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice”

— Angry Staffer (@AngrierWHStaff) April 18, 2019

[hollodero]

(04-18-2019, 12:56 PM)jj22 Wrote: This was clearly and unequivocally the biggest attack on America since Pearl Harbor.

Yeah I have to disagree with that.

[Belsnickel]

(04-18-2019, 01:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: Man, there might an obstruction case in there....but I don't know if it is worth the effort knowing that the GOP will never, ever do anything to uspet the Trump Cult.

This is where I stand. From what I have read, Mueller withheld judgment because of difficulty in determining intent. This is something that could come with further investigation, specifically with Trump being questioned. Mueller doing that would be a legal fight which is why he opted not to, Congress doing it would be easier. However, the support is not there in Congress or in public opinion to carry that forward. Since impeachment proceedings, which would be the only real way to continue this, are a political question we must look at the situation politically, and we should leave it here.

However, the report lays out several instances of highly questionable incidents that may very well have been obstruction. Those should not be ignored and they should be brought up in the 2020 races. The candidate(s) opposing Trump just need to be careful about that delivery and how it is presented. The voters that may be swayed by those things are going to be turned off quite easily because of how long this has been going on.

[Aquapod770]

(04-18-2019, 12:56 PM)jj22 Wrote: This was clearly and unequivocally the biggest attack on America since Pearl Harbor. How the American POTUS (we now know why) and Americans allowed Putin to get away with it is outrageous as you read this.

Jaw dropping.

Thank God Americans were a little more patriotic in 1942.

[*michaelsean*]

Well there's no way I'm reading that thing, so I guess I'll read a bunch of opinions and sort out where I think the truth is.

[jj22]

When is the last time we’ve been attacked so blatantly by a foreign state? How can you read the report and think something worse has happened since 1942?

[jj22]

(04-18-2019, 01:43 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well there's no way I'm reading that thing, so I guess I'll read a bunch of opinions and sort out where I think the truth is.

Read it. In sections. Too many opinions from people who haven’t even read the report. That doesn’t help the discourse.

[GMDino]

(04-18-2019, 01:43 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well there's no way I'm reading that thing, so I guess I'll read a bunch of opinions and sort out where I think the truth is.

Hard read with the redactions.

I'm trying to only repost where actual sections are shown and not just interpretations.

So far it looks like a lot of Trump people lied, Trump was very unhelpful (forgetful) and there are many incidents that could be obstruction.

Not the "full exoneration" that DJT would lie to believe.

[Aquapod770]

(04-18-2019, 01:42 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 01:44 PM)jj22 Wrote: When is the last time we’ve been attacked so blatantly by a foreign state? How can you read the report and think something worse has happened since 1942?

Please see my previous reply to your sensationalized bullshit. I'm sorry, but you're obsession and sensationalism driven by your never failing "Orange man bad" attitude is wearing me thin. 

Yes. Russia interfered with our election to help Trump win. Did they manipulate actual votes? No. They put out a stream of information and manipulation to sway votes to the candidate they wanted. Should reparations be placed against Russia? Yes. Will they? Probably not until the next administration, but he has placed sanctions on them before (and backed down when he shouldn't have). https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/heres-where-trump-has-been-tough-on-russia--and-where-hes-backed-do.html

No, the Muller report didn't find any evidence of collusion. There may be a legitimate case for obstruction of justice (like GMDino said), but I highly doubt congress decides to move forward with that. 

[GMDino]

This one can be filed under "no kidding..."

P. 288: "Sanders told the press after Comey's termination that the WH had heard from 'countless' FBI agents who had lost confidence in Comey. But the evidence does not support those claims ... Sanders acknowledged to investigators that her comments were not founded on anything."

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) April 18, 2019

 

[GMDino]

One more quick thing:

This report really brings home what I (and many others) have said about Trump.  He's a fool and a wanna be despot who doesn't even begin to understand his job or the law.

What stopped him were the adults who simply didn't do whatever he said.  That's the difference between government and his businesses.  Fewer "yes men" made it hard for him to destroy anything by acting out on his worst ideas.

That's why the US will remain strong even through 4 (or 8) years of a "man" who refuses to read or learn and "knows" he is the smartest (stable genius) person about everything.  Because he ISN'T a dictator and good, smart people can still stop him.

What we ARE seeing right now is Trump slowly but surely leaving so many positions unfilled and filling others WITH those "yes men" that real damage will be harder to stop.

IMHO.

[hollodero]

(04-18-2019, 01:29 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is where I stand. From what I have read, Mueller withheld judgment because of difficulty in determining intent. 

Well, in the introduction to the obstruction part Mueller quite clearly states that he reaches no conclusion because a president can't be indicted - as was the opinion of the Office of Legal Councel.

So that's obviously the reason for leaving this decision open in the first place.

Barr lied about that, it seems. No way around that word.

[jj22]

(04-18-2019, 01:54 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Please see my previous reply to your sensationalized bullshit. I'm sorry, but you're obsession and sensationalism driven by your never failing "Orange man bad" attitude is wearing me thin. 

Yes. Russia interfered with our election to help Trump win. Did they manipulate actual votes? No. They put out a stream of information and manipulation to sway votes to the candidate they wanted. Should reparations be placed against Russia? Yes. Will they? Probably not until the next administration, but he has placed sanctions on them before (and backed down when he shouldn't have). https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/heres-where-trump-has-been-tough-on-russia--and-where-hes-backed-do.html

No, the Muller report didn't find any evidence of collusion. There may be a legitimate case for obstruction of justice (like GMDino said), but I highly doubt congress decides to move forward with that. 

I'll ask again since I didn't see an answer outside of your personal attacks which you should know by now never silence me. When was the last time America has been attacked by a foreign state so blatantly? You guys just don't like anything bad said about Russia or why else would you be so defensive?

Are you even reading the report? You (trying) to come at me tougher then you are Russia. As if I attacked America. Go figure.

This is why it's important to read the report if you care that much.

[Au165]

(04-18-2019, 02:51 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'll ask again since I didn't see an answer outside of your personal attacks. When was the last time America has been attacked by a foreign state so blatantly? You guys just don't like anything bad said about Russia or why else would you be so defensive?

Are you even reading the report? You (trying) to come at me tougher then you are Russia. As if I attacked America. Go figure.

I mean, depending on who you think shot Kennedy that could be in question. Also, as was pointed out, 9/11 has some links to foreign governments depending on what you believe. Also we have had massive cyber attacks directed by foreign states including once that have cost US. tax payers 10's of millions of dollars.

[hollodero]

(04-18-2019, 02:51 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'll ask again since I didn't see an answer outside of your personal attacks which you should know by now never silence me. When was the last time America has been attacked by a foreign state so blatantly? You guys just don't like anything bad said about Russia or why else would you be so defensive?

Are you even reading the report? You (trying) to come at me tougher then you are Russia. As if I attacked America. Go figure.

This is why it's important to read the report if you care that much.

When you say "biggest attack since Pearl Harbor", you leave out quite a big attack with planes on the WTC.

Sure what Russia (or say Putin) did was bad, but I'd suggest you keep some perspective.

[Bengalzona]

I like the part where Mueller says something like he would like to say that there is no obstruction, but he can't because he was being obstructed.

Classic.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-18-2019, 05:09 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I like the part where Mueller says something like he would like to say that there is no obstruction, but he can't because he was being obstructed.

Classic.

That makes zero sense as that would make the case for obstruction