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"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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(05-01-2019, 03:46 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:
I couldn't read it even blown up.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
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(05-01-2019, 04:28 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I couldn't read it even blown up.
Basically he says that he had given the DOJ a summary that they could distribute to Congress and the public and criticized the DOJ for releasing their own that did not accurately describe the investigation's findings. He said their actions confused the public and threatened to undermine the purpose of the investigation. He then encouraged the DOJ to release that summary the investigation gave them immediately rather than spend a month redacting the report and waiting until then to show the public anything.
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Barr just admitted to Kamala that he did not look at the evidence before saying there was not enough evidence to justify obstruction charges.
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Other things Barr said today:
The President can legally tell his aides to lie to investigators
Trump wanting to remove Mueller wasn't obstruction because Trump honestly thought that Mueller being interviewed for the FBI director job under Trump and once disputing fees at a Trump golf course created a conflict of interest, so Trump was probably just saying that he should be removed and a new counsel appointed. Trump's lawyer told him that the reasoning was "silly" but Trump told him to fire him anyways and call him when he did it.
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My Senator just tweeted that he asked Barr under oath in April if he knew if Mueller supported Barr's conclusion that Barr responded "I do not know". We now know that Barr had received a letter from Mueller 24 days earlier saying he did not support the conclusion.
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(05-01-2019, 04:41 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Barr just admitted to Kamala that he did not look at the evidence before saying there was not enough evidence to justify obstruction charges.
This is crazy.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
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(05-01-2019, 04:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Basically he says that he had given the DOJ a summary that they could distribute to Congress and the public and criticized the DOJ for releasing their own that did not accurately describe the investigation's findings. He said their actions confused the public and threatened to undermine the purpose of the investigation. He then encouraged the DOJ to release that summary the investigation gave them immediately rather than spend a month redacting the report and waiting until then to show the public anything.
So why is everyone acting like it's a smoking gun? Technically he didn't have to release anything, and I still never understood how everyone got upset over what he said about it, when the whole thing minus redactions was always going to be released.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
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(05-01-2019, 04:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Basically he says that he had given the DOJ a summary that they could distribute to Congress and the public and criticized the DOJ for releasing their own that did not accurately describe the investigation's findings. He said their actions confused the public and threatened to undermine the purpose of the investigation. He then encouraged the DOJ to release that summary the investigation gave them immediately rather than spend a month redacting the report and waiting until then to show the public anything.
LOL BPAT for AG!
At least we'd have one who can summarize concisely and accurately.
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(05-01-2019, 05:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So why is everyone acting like it's a smoking gun? Technically he didn't have to release anything, and I still never understood how everyone got upset over what he said about it, when the whole thing minus redactions was always going to be released.
It confirms that Barr knew the findings were being misrepresented and moved forward anyways. It confirms that he lied when he said he didn't know if Mueller agreed with him. It casts a picture of an AG whose mission was to mislead the public on the outcome of the investigation as a way to benefit the president and who could have provided more clarity prior to releasing the redacted report but chose not to.
It's all really damning.
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(05-01-2019, 05:39 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL BPAT for AG!
At least we'd have one who can summarize concisely and accurately.
I'd rather be Sec of Edu but I'd be too qualified in this administration since I have more than 0 days experience.
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(05-01-2019, 05:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So why is everyone acting like it's a smoking gun? Technically he didn't have to release anything, and I still never understood how everyone got upset over what he said about it, when the whole thing minus redactions was always going to be released.
That's part of the problem. Consider the timing as well.
Mueller laid out the case to be reported, including the reasons he was turning the question of prosecution over to Congress. That is where the conversation about prosecution for obstruction and impeachment should have started. And an AG Serving the Constitution and the American people would have allowed the conversation to start there.
But then Barr held up the report, then intervened in service of Trump. The distorted summary immediately set the floor for a different and false narrative--Trump absolved of collusion and obstruction. Charges dismissed!
Suddenly Mueller's carefully constructed legal argument becomes the "spin" and attempts to set argument back on proper legal ground are met with charges that "Democrats are moving the goal posts" and "Dems didn't like the results so they want to keep investigating" etc.
You can see on this thread that people are already dismissing the legal argument and refusing to read the report since Barr has already told them what's what.
Now the legal argument for prosecution of obstruction has to swim upstream. Here and in the public sphere.
The smoking gun effect of the Mueller letter comes from the exposed lie--Barr said he "didn't know" if Mueller supported his summary of the Report when he had already received Mueller's letter of objection to the summary as incomplete and distortive.
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Here's what I get outta this: Basically, Barr pulled a theatrical stunt (probably at the behest of the President) to mislead the public about the conclusions drawn in the investigation, some of which he didn't even read before submitting his own summary.
Does that sound about right?
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(05-01-2019, 05:39 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL BPAT for AG!
At least we'd have one who can summarize concisely and accurately.
But let's be real: You're lazy if you don't read it for yourself.
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(05-01-2019, 06:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But let's be real: You're lazy if you don't read it for yourself.
Sure. When it comes out. In the meantime, honest and accurate summaries are helpful.
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(05-01-2019, 06:08 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Here's what I get outta this: Basically, Barr pulled a theatrical stunt (probably at the behest of the President) to mislead the public about the conclusions drawn in the investigation, some of which he didn't even read before submitting his own summary.
Does that sound about right?
Yes.
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(05-01-2019, 06:16 PM)Dill Wrote: Sure. When it comes out. In the meantime, honest and accurate summaries are helpful.
How would you know if it is honest and accurate?
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(05-01-2019, 06:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How would you know if it is honest and accurate?
A letter from the author confirming the accuracy. If Robert Mueller sends me a letter telling me that my summary was not accurate and confused the Bengals Board, I'll post it.
Edit: Don't worry, I know you were referencing the previous back and forth in which you were called lazy. I was just being a smart ass.
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From what I've read Barr was quite forthright and direct in his answers despite being constantly attacked and slurred by Congressional members from the Left.
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(05-01-2019, 09:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: From what I've read Barr was quite forthright and direct in his answers despite being constantly attacked and slurred by Congressional members from the Left.
From what I saw, you can't be that much uncomfortable while telling the truth.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
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