The Mueller Report thread

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-08-2019, 02:14 PM)Dill Wrote:   I'm ok with Jesus.  Not the father though. Old Testament guy. Which one is the NSC advisor?

Probably the Holy Spirit because he is everywhere. Some might say omniscient.

And who better to take care of Iran than an Old Testament father? Spare the rod and all that. Never spare the rod. Maybe even give 'em one to grow on. He's already got flooding as a weapon of mass destruction without the pesky nuclear winter. Mass murder via "enhanced" water boarding techniques is how you can tell he cares. Tough love. I'm sure it hurt him more than it hurt all those puppies he drowned.

[Dill]

(05-08-2019, 03:20 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: oncemoreuntothejimbreechDill Wrote: which one is the NSC advisor?

Probably the Holy Spirit because he is everywhere. Some might say omniscient.

[GMDino]

Mueller report says Russians interfered.  Trump says he believes Putin when he says they didn't.

Meanwhile...

“We’re not meddling in an election, we’re meddling in an investigation, which we have a right to do,” Mr. Giuliani said. “There’s nothing illegal about it. Somebody could say it’s improper.” https://t.co/bAm0FHjTmS

— David Freedlander (@freedlander) May 10, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Goalpost]

So Mueller is now a no show next week.

[Dill]

(05-10-2019, 09:27 AM)GMDino Wrote: Mueller report says Russians interfered.  Trump says he believes Putin when he says they didn't.

Meanwhile...

“We’re not meddling in an election, we’re meddling in an investigation, which we have a right to do,” Mr. Giuliani said. “There’s nothing illegal about it. Somebody could say it’s improper.”

Just have to chuckle"

Mr. Giuliani’s plans create the remarkable scene of a lawyer for the president of the United States pressing a foreign government to pursue investigations that Mr. Trump’s allies hope could help him in his re-election campaign. And it comes after Mr. Trump spent more than half of his term facing questions about whether his 2016 campaign conspired with a foreign power.

[jj22]

New Trump mantra: "No Collusion Except For With Ukraine, At Least Currently!"

[Dill]

Recently on Rachel:

Judges are apparently wise to Trump's clog-the-system-with-suits-and-refusals-and-peititions-for-delay tactics.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/courts-not-playing-along-with-trump-s-slowdown-strategy-59352133776


Also, an excellent segment on precedents tonight. Bush ordered warrantless spying on US citizens, and FBI and justice officials refused to play along and threatened to resign. The DEEP STATE thwarting a Republican president again.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/former-fbi-general-counsel-james-baker-joins-rachel-maddow-friday-59352645708

Great discussion on and examples of integrity. Loyalty to Constitution, the country, not your short-term interests.

[JustWinBaby]

(05-10-2019, 11:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Recently on Rachel:

LMFAO

[GMDino]

In court Trump's lawyers made the "argument" that if the POTUS commits a crime (or may have) congress cannot look into it only the justice department can.

Seriously.

They are arguing (more or less) that congress should not have oversight of the executive branch. (All BOLD mine.)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/05/14/president-trump-fight-congressional-subpoena-financial-records-mazars-court-hearing/1187746001/

Quote:Lawyers for President Donald Trump and the House clashed Tuesday in federal court over the extent of Congress' power to investigate him in the first legal test of Trump's effort to block sprawling probes of his finances and private business.


Trump wants a judge to prevent a congressional committee from obtaining financial records from his longtime accountant, Mazars USA. It is the first court test of how much information the half-dozen committees conducting investigations of Trump and his businesses might be able to obtain. 

Trump and his namesake businesses filed a lawsuit last month asking U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta to revoke a subpoena issued by the House Oversight and Reform Committee. Trump's lawyers accused the Democratic-controlled committee of abusing their power and said there was no legislative purpose for the request. 

Mehta cited three possible reasons Tuesday to block the subpoena: that Congress has no general authority to investigate the president’s private life, that it can’t investigate for the sake of exposure; and that Congress can’t encroach on the powers of the other two branches.

Mehta didn't indicate whether he found those reasons sufficiently persuasive to block the House subpoena. But he suggested history might not be on the president's side, saying courts had not found that Congress overstepped its subpoena authority since 1880 and questioning Trump's lawyers about the basis for previous investigations of presidents. 

Trump’s personal lawyer, William Consovoy, argued repeatedly that Congress was seeking the president's financial information for what is essentially a law-enforcement purpose – which was outside its authority – rather than to work on legislation. The subpoena sought Trump’s financial records to look for inconsistencies in his financial disclosure forms, and whether he misstated his holdings for loans that could leave him beholden to foreigners.

“That is law enforcement,” Consovoy said. “Are you complying with federal law?”

At one point, Mehta asked whether Congress could investigate if the president was engaged in corrupt behavior in office.


“I don’t think that’s the proper subject of investigation as to the president,” Consovoy said, although executive agencies could be investigated.

Mehta sounded incredulous, asking whether Congress could have investigated Watergate, which led to President Richard Nixon's resignation, and Whitewater, which led to President Bill Clinton's impeachment. Consovoy initially said he’d have to look at the basis for those investigations.

“They were inquiring as to violations of criminal law,” Mehta said. “It’s pretty straightforward – among other things.”

Consovoy said the question is whether the legislation the committee cited was a valid reason for the subpoena.

“That is still law enforcement," Consovoy said.

But Douglas Letter, the general counsel for the House, argued that Congress has broad investigative authority.

“His main client, President Trump, has taken the position really that Congress and particularly the House of Representatives is a nuisance and we’re just getting in his way when he’s trying to run the country,” Letter said. “The problem with that is that this is a total and basic and fundamental misunderstanding of the system that is set up by the Constitution.”

Letter acknowledged under questioning by Mehta that hypothetically Congress might overstep by asking for the president’s blood or for his diary as a 7-year-old. But Letter said Trump’s lawsuit is so far outside the bounds of past Supreme Court decisions that he has “no chance for success” and urged a quick decision in the case because of Congress’s limited term.

“These are totally legitimate things for Congress to look into,” Letter said.

Letter said any delay in the decision in the case would undermine the House's authority to pursue investigations.

“President Trump has no chance of success here on the merits of his claim," Letter said.

Consovoy replied that limiting Congress' power only when it pries so deeply as to seek presidential blood or a childhood diary is “unbridled."

"That's simply unimaginable," he said.

Mehta said at the start of the hearing that he wouldn’t rule right away, but would try to do so quickly. He said he would give both sides until Saturday to submit additional information. 


Another subpoena fight between Trump and Congress is scheduled to be heard next week in federal court in New York.

The lawsuit is the latest salvo in a series of investigations that are continuing into Trump and his businesses in the aftermath of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. That probe ended without a finding that Trump had committed a crime, but federal prosecutors and congressional committees are conducting a variety of separate investigations into the president and his businesses.

The House Judiciary Committee held Attorney General William Barr in contempt for failing to comply with a subpoena for Mueller's unredacted report and its underlying evidence, a prelude to pursuing the documents in court. The House Ways and Means Committee subpoenaed Trump's tax records. The House Intelligence and Financial Services committees jointly subpoenaed Trump's business records from Deutsche Bank. And the Senate Intelligence Committee subpoenaed the president's son, Donald Trump Jr., as part of its Russia inquiry.

Trump’s central argument in trying to block access to the Mazars documents is that congressional oversight applies only to the development of legislation. Without any legislative purpose, Trump contends the committee’s request represents political warfare.

“The Democrat Party, with its newfound control of the U.S. House of Representatives, has declared all-out political war against President Donald J. Trump. Subpoenas are their weapon of choice,” the president’s lawsuit said. “There is no possible legislation at the end of the tunnel.”

Oversight Committee Chairman Elijah Cummings, D-Md., has said the committee sought Trump’s financial documents to determine whether Trump has accurately reported his own finances. Trump's former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, who entered prison for three years this month for crimes including lying to Congress, told the committee in February that Trump routinely inflated his holdings to obtain loans and reduced his estimates to avoid real-estate taxes.

“Trump’s attacks on the committee’s investigations amount to nothing more than political histrionics and hyperbole,” the committee said in its reply to the lawsuit.

The committee argued that it was investigating numerous constitutional, conflict of interest and ethical questions. For example, the committee noted $75 million in debt connected to Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago and $50 million in assets of Trump International Hotel in Las Vegas. Those figures were listed in Trump’s government financial-disclosure forms beginning in 2015, but not in a 2012 statement from Mazars that Cohen provided the committee, according to the committee response.

The committee said its legislative jurisdiction includes the 1978 Ethics in Government Act, “which requires federal officials to publicly disclose financial liabilities that could affect their decision-making,” and legislation the House approved this year called HR 1, which would require the president to “divest of all financial interests that post a conflict of interest.”

Consovoy argued that at least HR 1 was unconstitutional because of the demands it put on the president, and shouldn't be considered justification for the subpoena.

[Lucidus]

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/top-3-takeaways-from-unredacted-michael-flynn-documents-detailing-attempts-to-obstruct/

"U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan ordered the government on Thursday to file an “unredacted version of those portions” of the publicly-available version of Special Counsel Robert Mueller‘s report that related to Flynn. That wasn’t all: Sullivan also ordered the filing of the transcript of a certain “voicemail recording.”

Judge Sullivan also ordered the government to submit audio versions of recordings “on a DVD by no later than May 31, 2019.”

[jj22]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-16/ukraine-prosecutor-says-no-evidence-of-wrongdoing-by-bidens?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-politics&utm_medium=social&utm_content=politics&utm_source=twitter

Quote:Ukraine’s prosecutor general said in an interview that he had no evidence of wrongdoing by U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden or his son, despite a swirl of allegations by President Donald Trump’s lawyer.



The controversy stems from diplomatic actions by Biden while his son, Hunter Biden, sat on the board of Burisma Group, one of the country’s biggest private gas companies. As vice president, Biden pursued an anti-corruption policy in Ukraine in 2016 that included a call for the resignation of the country’s top prosecutor who had previously investigated Burisma.

[jj22]

Also from Trump..

Quote: Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump · 4h4 hours ago
It now seems the General Flynn was under investigation long before was common knowledge. It would have been impossible for me to know this but, if that was the case, and with me being one of two people who would become president, why was I not told so that I could make a change?

His defenders and supporters are rallying behind this lie, but we all know Obama warned him as did Sally (who he in turn fired). He is getting significant pushback, but the fact his supporters are defending his "ignorance" in the face of reports of the contrary from the last 2 years shows how easily influenced (and dangerous to the country he is) they are.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/17/trump-flynn-investigation-1330331

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/timeline-sally-yates-warnings-white-house-mike-flynn/story?id=47272979

[GMDino]

Republicans, conservatives, Trump supporters...'all must be so proud of this whiney, childish, thin-skinned "man" you voted for.

https://t.co/Oe8E5kk8OA

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 22, 2019

 




Lie after lie after complaint after BS.  What a sad, small "man".

[jj22]

It is sad. I agree. But somehow folks (fewer and fewer) still think this is "strength". Even though none of us would teach our kids to act like this.

If nothing else, it seems people are tiring of the "whoa is me" act.

[Belsnickel]

(05-22-2019, 04:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: It is sad. I agree. But somehow folks (fewer and fewer) still think this is "strength". Even though none of us would teach our kids to act like this.

If nothing else, it seems people are tiring of the "whoa is me" act.

Just wait until impeachment comes, because he is forcing that card to be played.

[GMDino]

(05-22-2019, 04:19 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just wait until impeachment comes, because he is forcing that card to be played.

I'd like your opinion:  I was thinking today that DJT probably thinks that all of this is like when files all his lawsuits for his business.  That he has the better lawyers and more money so he can just wear down the other side until they have to quit.  Is he dumb enough to think that about impeachment?

[jj22]

He probably does want to be impeached thinking it helped Clinton. But Clinton was at 68% approval when he was impeached. Trump is at 38%.

It will still help him with his base tho cause they don't care about all the laws he's broke. So I understand why Nancy is trying to hold off.

[Belsnickel]

(05-22-2019, 04:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'd like your opinion:  I was thinking today that DJT probably thinks that all of this is like when files all his lawsuits for his business.  That he has the better lawyers and more money so he can just wear down the other side until they have to quit.  Is he dumb enough to think that about impeachment?

I think he is banking on impeachment being a win for him. He's been playing that game so far, that is what he is doing with the unprecedented use of executive privilege, the ordering of McGahn not to testify, etc. He's trying to push the House to the point of impeachment proceedings, IMO, because he sees those as a political win for him so he can play the victim card and ride that through 2020. Unless something comes out so egregious in the hearings that the GOP will have no choice, he will remain in office and be able to claim victory, so I feel like he is right.

It should be noted that one of the original articles of impeachment for Nixon was obstruction of Congress, and that will likely be one of the first for Trump as he prevents them from doing their job.

[GMDino]

(05-22-2019, 04:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think he is banking on impeachment being a win for him. He's been playing that game so far, that is what he is doing with the unprecedented use of executive privilege, the ordering of McGahn not to testify, etc. He's trying to push the House to the point of impeachment proceedings, IMO, because he sees those as a political win for him so he can play the victim card and ride that through 2020. Unless something comes out so egregious in the hearings that the GOP will have no choice, he will remain in office and be able to claim victory, so I feel like he is right.

It should be noted that one of the original articles of impeachment for Nixon was obstruction of Congress, and that will likely be one of the first for Trump as he prevents them from doing their job.

I think I agree with JJ that I just can't see impeachment swinging that much of the lectorate one way or the other.

Although I think DJT's behavior would get steadily worse and worse.  Today was a good example.

He may want to be impeached, but I think he has no idea what that will entail and how he will be raked through the coals.

[JustWinBaby]

(05-22-2019, 04:36 PM)jj22 Wrote: He probably does want to be impeached thinking it helped Clinton. But Clinton was at 68% approval when he was impeached. Trump is at 38%.

It will still help him with his base tho cause they don't care about all the laws he's broke. So I understand why Nancy is trying to hold off.

Except there could be evidence, yet to be fully revealed, of politically motivated/weaponized or what have you DOJ to unseat a duly elected POTUS.

It most likely will end-up a gray area, not unlike "obstruction", up to debate and subject to partisan conclusions.  But it's possible it may be worse than that.  So maybe Trump is begging Dems to impeach him, so they can drop the "witchhunt" bombshell.....and that WOULD make a big difference.

Welcome to the new normal where Congress gives itself the authority to investigate anything and everything about a POTUS and his family's entire life.  I almost hope Biden wins 2020 because, shit, if Dems take a re-do what are Republicans going to do to raise the stakes?