The Pollack Experiment Should End

[Nicomo Cosca]

Not getting Bill Callahan when his son is literally the OC here feels like one of those pivotal course changing moments (like Walsh to SF). Ah what could have been. *Sigh*

[Essex Johnson]

(11-01-2022, 02:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I just don't think talent is the issue with this team. The roster is loaded. We have a QB and 2 WR's on rookie deals. Our roster will likely not be this loaded again in Burrow's career.

I think it's totally a coaching/scheme issue.

What offense weapon is leaving next year ?? we pretty much have the same core at WR for sure, probably will actually be better at WR/TE when we look to draft one ... 

In the end what is talent ?  is talent only when things are great around you , you perform or a player that rises above ?

There are issues with both coaching and player performance.. i don;t think we can totally separate them...  

I do think we start with small changes this year.. maybe let Pollack go at the our bye, lessen Mixon play, move on from Thomas at Wr give taylor and irwin more reps.. 

[SunsetBengal]

(11-01-2022, 01:59 PM)Wyche Wrote: Same here, but it's obvious he ain't cutting the mustard.

Like you mentioned, and few rarely acknowledge, he is the run game coordinator. So really, ALL of this falls on him. 

Cut bait.

I agree that it's time for change at OL Coach/Run Coordinator, but I highly doubt that they do anything while they're still in season.  I guess that one of the first things you have to consider with all things Bengals management related is, how much dead money will the team owe Pollack if he's sacked?  If it's minimal, then we can begin to ponder "who should they go after?". 

[WeezyBengal]

I think the writing is on the wall for Pollack after this season, especially since they mostly ditched his wide zone run concept.

You need to run that concept from under center, and Burrow isn't good and doesn't like being under center.

The book on Pollack is that he's a great Xs and Os guy and not a great developmental/technique guy.

If we ditch his wide zone run scheme, then what value does a guy like Pollack bring?

Couple that with the whiffs on OL draft picks and guys not getting better and I can certainly see him being replaced after the season ends.

[pulses]

(11-01-2022, 12:27 PM)GodFather Wrote: Frank Pollack came into here expected to change the offensive line woes. Last year, he had a pass because of what he was working with and this offseason we completely revamped the line and still have one of the worst OL in the NFL. We are second only behind the Bears in sacks allowed.

And don't blame Burrow because he is ranked 4th among all starting QB with getting rid of the ball the quickest.

It's absolutely pathetic to watch this offense crumble week after week with all the weapons we have. The experiment is over, find someone who can do their job and create an offensive line that will let other players have an opportunity to do their job.

THink we need a better OL coach and also a different scheme.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-01-2022, 12:27 PM)GodFather Wrote: Frank Pollack came into here expected to change the offensive line woes. Last year, he had a pass because of what he was working with and this offseason we completely revamped the line and still have one of the worst OL in the NFL. We are second only behind the Bears in sacks allowed.

And don't blame Burrow because he is ranked 4th among all starting QB with getting rid of the ball the quickest.

It's absolutely pathetic to watch this offense crumble week after week with all the weapons we have. The experiment is over, find someone who can do their job and create an offensive line that will let other players have an opportunity to do their job.

A lot of folks have been calling for Pollack's head.  He is the offensive line coach and run game coordinator.  How can we truly evaluate his coaching in those respects when the PLAY CALLING had a whopping 10 run plays called against a team that is #25 in the league against the run? 

The line was playing better the past few weeks, but you have to understand that if a defense doesn't have to respect your ability to run the ball whatsoever, then you are going to get your QB killed.  

[GodFather]

(11-02-2022, 08:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: A lot of folks have been calling for Pollack's head.  He is the offensive line coach and run game coordinator.  How can we truly evaluate his coaching in those respects when the PLAY CALLING had a whopping 10 run plays called against a team that is #25 in the league against the run? 

The line was playing better the past few weeks, but you have to understand that if a defense doesn't have to respect your ability to run the ball whatsoever, then you are going to get your QB killed.  

The Bengals are averaging 3.5 yards per attempt rushing, that is 3rd worst in the league coming in at 30. When they did run against the Browns they stunk it up only averaging 3.6 yards. 

Pollack is at blame here. Other teams have done better with far less player talent. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-02-2022, 08:11 AM)GodFather Wrote: The Bengals are averaging 3.5 yards per attempt rushing, that is 3rd worst in the league coming in at 30. When they did run against the Browns they stunk it up only averaging 3.6 yards. 

Pollack is at blame here. Other teams have done better with far less player talent. 

At least partially. The scheme he wants to run never fit the players he has.

It’s also quite possible Mixon is washed. Both can be true.

[GodFather]

(11-02-2022, 08:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: At least partially. The scheme he wants to run never fit the players he has.

It’s also quite possible Mixon is washed. Both can be true.

So then whats your excuse for Pollack producing another horrible offensive line? I dont buy your response. He should adapt a run a scheme based on his players. Great coaches do the best of what they have.

[XenoMorph]

(11-02-2022, 08:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: At least partially. The scheme he wants to run never fit the players he has.

It’s also quite possible Mixon is washed. Both can be true.

Then why did we not sign players that fit his scheme?  He said he liked these pickups i believe.

Seems he just cant coach well. which is the entire theme of our offense

[SunsetBengal]

(11-01-2022, 11:31 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think the writing is on the wall for Pollack after this season, especially since they mostly ditched his wide zone run concept.

You need to run that concept from under center, and Burrow isn't good and doesn't like being under center.

The book on Pollack is that he's a great Xs and Os guy and not a great developmental/technique guy.

If we ditch his wide zone run scheme, then what value does a guy like Pollack bring?

Couple that with the whiffs on OL draft picks and guys not getting better and I can certainly see him being replaced after the season ends.

At the NFL level, I believe that most of the technique/developmental hands on comes from the assistants under the OL coach.  In one of his final seasons with the Bengals, Paul Alexander was quoted as saying "I can't teach technique in season, that work happens in the offseason", or something along those lines.

While it's obvious that some sort of philosophical change needs to happen with the approach to blocking in the running game, we also don't know if running play style is purely of Pollack's own volition or if it's dictated by the HC and OC perhaps saying "we want the running game to flow to the edges, make it happen".

[WeezyBengal]

(11-02-2022, 09:40 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: At the NFL level, I believe that most of the technique/developmental hands on comes from the assistants under the OL coach.  In one of his final seasons with the Bengals, Paul Alexander was quoted as saying "I can't teach technique in season, that work happens in the offseason", or something along those lines.

While it's obvious that some sort of philosophical change needs to happen with the approach to blocking in the running game, we also don't know if running play style is purely of Pollack's own volition or if it's dictated by the HC and OC perhaps saying "we want the running game to flow to the edges, make it happen".

I highly doubt that because they have changed the style mid-way through the year. Who knows though. 

I think this off-season you will see Pollack and Mixon let go. It's sad because Mixon seems like a great locker room guy - but those are two changes that can have a huge impact on this offense. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-02-2022, 09:40 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: At the NFL level, I believe that most of the technique/developmental hands on comes from the assistants under the OL coach.  In one of his final seasons with the Bengals, Paul Alexander was quoted as saying "I can't teach technique in season, that work happens in the offseason", or something along those lines.

While it's obvious that some sort of philosophical change needs to happen with the approach to blocking in the running game, we also don't know if running play style is purely of Pollack's own volition or if it's dictated by the HC and OC perhaps saying "we want the running game to flow to the edges, make it happen".

Well, he's the run game coordinator, so.....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-02-2022, 08:11 AM)GodFather Wrote: The Bengals are averaging 3.5 yards per attempt rushing, that is 3rd worst in the league coming in at 30. When they did run against the Browns they stunk it up only averaging 3.6 yards. 

Pollack is at blame here. Other teams have done better with far less player talent. 

Yes, Mixons stat line was horrible. Then you get behind and have to throw. The offense is one dimensional because we can't run the ball. Then you take your best playmaker out of that equation and poor blocking, you get spanked by the Browns again. We played right into their hands last year in game one, then it happened again Monday.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-02-2022, 09:58 AM)Wyche Wrote: Well, he's the run game coordinator, so.....

We also have an Offensive Coordinator, but we all know who does most of the play calling..

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-02-2022, 10:25 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: We also have an Offensive Coordinator, but we all know who does most of the play calling..

Yep, and I'm not a fan of some of it, some of it I like, but I wonder why it's called when our execution has been bad. I just posted an article about Jonah Williams and Joe Mixon....when you see Mixon's numbers, it makes you realize why they abandon the run. His numbers beyond the LOS are pitiful. It pains me to say it, but I think his time here should be done. When you dive inside the numbers, playcalling is not the issue with Mixon.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-02-2022, 10:44 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yep, and I'm not a fan of some of it, some of it I like, but I wonder why it's called when our execution has been bad. I just posted an article about Jonah Williams and Joe Mixon....when you see Mixon's numbers, it makes you realize why they abandon the run. His numbers beyond the LOS are pitiful. It pains me to say it, but I think his time here should be done. When you dive inside the numbers, playcalling is not the issue with Mixon.

There were some calling for the Bengals to move on from him this offseason, but we all knew the dead money made that a non-possibility with the Bengals management.  After the way things have been unfolding this year, I could see them releasing him after this season.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-02-2022, 09:05 AM)GodFather Wrote: So then whats your excuse for Pollack producing another horrible offensive line? I dont buy your response. He should adapt a run a scheme based on his players. Great coaches do the best of what they have.

I literally said Pollack deserves part of the blame. That said, this is pretty hard to overcome…

Joe Mixon ranks 65th out of 67 backs with a grade of 24.3
He leads the league with 3 sacks allowed.

Joe Mixon's elusive rating (making defenders miss) is now down to 51st out of 54 backs.

His Yards After Contact average of 2.05 yards now ranks 53rd of 54 backs.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 2, 2022

[*PhilHos*]

(11-01-2022, 12:43 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am completely over it. It's not just the OL play, but its the players they bring in.

They keep whiffing on drafting OL. That's a direct reflection on Pollack who I am sure has input on who they should be drafting.

Time to move the hell on and bring in someone completely new.

I can't help but wonder if Zac, Callahan, and Pollack have a scheme they want to run for their OL but then bring in players who may be good and/or have potential but are not good fits for the scheme they want to run and so we have what we have.

[WeezyBengal]

(11-02-2022, 10:02 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, Mixons stat line was horrible. Then you get behind and have to throw. The offense is one dimensional because we can't run the ball. Then you take your best playmaker out of that equation and poor blocking, you get spanked by the Browns again. We played right into their hands last year in game one, then it happened again Monday.

The nonexistent run game is THE single biggest problem with this offense right now. 

Every team in our division has played Tampa or Cover 2 against us just begging us to run and we just can't do it. They won't get out of these looks until we prove that we can run. It's why you see so many check downs by Joe. It's hard to find guys open when the lineback is sprinting back in coverage every play.  

Why the run game isn't working is the real question. Is it scheme, Mixon, something else? 

The thing that this team could do RIGHT NOW to try and make it work is to give Perine and Evans more carries. They have already adjusted the scheme a bit and that seemed to help, but Mixon isn't holding up his end of the bargain. He just can't break tackles or make guys miss.