The Trans Movement Just Hit Home.......

[BFritz21]

I was going to make a Facebook post today or tomorrow joking about how I identify as crippled and just making a joke of all this, but now it's gotten real.

According to The NY Post, people are choosing to identify as handicapped:

Quote:A troubling societal issue called “transableism” is attracting attention these days.

Transableism is a newer term for BIID, or “Body Integrity Identity Disorder,” in which a person actually “identifies” as handicapped.

BIID has been relabeled to transableism to align with today’s trans community, according to some.

The point of “changing the identifier” from a psychiatric condition (BIID) to an advocacy term (transableism) is to “harness the stunning cultural power of gender ideology” to the cause of allowing doctors to “treat” BIID patients by “amputating healthy limbs, snipping spinal cords or destroying eyesight,” according to Evolution News and Science Today (EN), which reports on and analyzes evolution, neuroscience, bioethics, intelligent design and other science-related issues.

Culturally, transableism is “the next abyss,” that site also notes.

Why?

Because “some of these persons mutilate themselves; others ask surgeons for an amputation or for the transection of their spinal cord,” that site adds of the shocking steps some are taking.

The National Institutes of Health (NIH) notes on its website, “Those with BIID desire the amputation of one or more healthy limbs or desire a paralysis.”

A North Carolina college student called transableism a “cry for attention.”

The 24-year-old told Fox News Digital, “It’s offensive to people who actually suffer from the condition that you say you need, in order to be your true self.”

He went on, “It’s embarrassing, and I don’t know if you can be considered a serious human being if you alter your body like this, instead of getting the appropriate mental help you need.”

But it's also not just about amputees because there's perfectly healthy people identifying as crippled:

Quote:In one case of BIID, Jørund Viktoria Alme, 53, a senior credit analyst in Oslo, Norway, identifies as disabled and uses a wheelchair, even though she has no physical handicap.

Alme is also transgender, according to Heraldscotland.com. Alme said on the morning TV program “Good Morning Norway” in 2022 that it had been a “lifelong wish” to have been born “a woman paralyzed from the waist down,” the same source noted.

In an even more shocking case, a 21-year-old North Carolina woman who identified as blind actually took steps to destroy her own eyesight, according to multiple reports from a few years ago.

First of all, to even pretend like you understand the struggles of someone that's born disabled or becomes disabled for any reason, is just an absolute ***** joke.

Second, the left says that it's not a mental illness, but you think people that are stable minded want to be paralyzed? I'm crippled and could never imagine what it would be like to be paralyzed.

Third, there's limited resources to get handicapped people the basic necessities that we need to live a normal life, but now we have to get even less resources because there's people identifying as something they're not?

All you leftists out there, is this ok too?

Are you going to fight as hard for them as you do transgender people?

[BFritz21]

I forgot to add this paert:

Quote:“In my opinion, both transgender and transabled persons suffer from a delusional disorder,” Jane Orient, a general internist in Tucson, Arizona, and executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, told Fox News Digital via email.

Does anyone still object to that?

[*Nately120*]

Are the girls being dragged down the stairs part of this post or is that just your new signature? Are they faking it and getting what they deserve? I identify as confused on this one.

[BFritz21]

(05-02-2023, 01:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Are the girls being dragged down the stairs part of this post or is that just your new signature?  Are they faking it and getting what they deserve?  I identify as confused on this one.

Stay the hell out of my thread.

[*Nately120*]

(05-02-2023, 01:22 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Stay the hell out of my thread.

[BFritz21]

(05-02-2023, 01:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote:

It wasn't a question because you've posted in other threads I've posted in since I've had that signature and I'm pretty sure you've even quoted since I've had that, so grow up and stay the hell out of my thread.

[BigPapaKain]

(05-02-2023, 01:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Are the girls being dragged down the stairs part of this post or is that just your new signature?  Are they faking it and getting what they deserve?  I identify as confused on this one.

(05-02-2023, 01:22 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Stay the hell out of my thread.

I'd like to see the questions answered.

[BFritz21]

(05-02-2023, 01:39 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I'd like to see the questions answered.

I answered the question by saying I've had that for a while.

Grow up.

[*Nately120*]

(05-02-2023, 01:37 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It wasn't a question because you've posted in other threads I've posted in since I've had that signature and I'm pretty sure you've even quoted since I've had that, so grow up and stay the hell out of my thread.

Pretty sure ain't sure and it was a legit question seeing as you are posting about people pretending to be disabled and there is a gif of girls wiping out going down the stairs in a wheelchair.  I was legimately wondering if that was related to the article and/or a showing of humor on your part.  

Anyways, I'll stay out but there are like 6 people left in this forum so maybe one of them will come along and engage in a dialog that meets your standards of debate. 

[BFritz21]

(05-02-2023, 01:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Pretty sure ain't sure and it was a legit question seeing as you are posting about people pretending to be disabled and there is a gif of girls wiping out going down the stairs in a wheelchair.  I was legimately wondering if that was related to the article and/or a showing of humor on your part.  

Anyways, I'll stay out but there are like 6 people left in this forum so maybe one of them will come along and engage in a dialog that meets your standards of debate. 

It was an obvious stunt by those girls and, if it weren't, how would that qualify as identifying as crippled?

The average crippled person doesn't get pushed down a flight of stairs in a wheelchair.

[Belsnickel]

Just in case anyone was curious if this was nothing more than right-wing jackassery: https://daily.jstor.org/the-complicated-issue-of-transableism/

Now this is interesting because I had never run across this issue before even though a quick search found articles on the topic dating back over a decade. It caused me to think about the idea of disability as a social construct as I wondered about the comparison between transability and transgender. It is an interesting philosophical thought experiment and it really has me pondering.

[CJD]

My general stance towards all trans (and similar) topics is "if it doesn't affect me, I don't care what people do or say." Transgender people view gender as a social construct (which it is) and are not comfortable with the expectations, aesthetic or otherwise, set upon them by society based on their biological sex. To me, that's fine. If you want to identify as a woman, take drugs or have surgeries to physically conform more to the female gender and participate in society as a woman, I have no problems with that, as it has not yet, nor do I expect it to, affect me (or anyone else. This isn't just a me centric belief, it extends to just humanity in general).

I think, deep down, people are so upset about the transgendered topic for a few reasons:
1. They've been told to be upset about it by people who want their vote/money/viewership but are not offering anything of substance in return, so they instead choose to activate people's impulse to anger. Often using anecdotal "fear mongering" stories that don't have any basis or statistical evidence.
2. Disgust and homophobia (like, a person who is afraid that hot chick they picked up at the club is "actually a guy" which makes them gay for being attracted to a "guy!")
3. Good old fashioned appeal to the depravity of the younger generation and "modernity". Every generation has become more liberal when it comes to sex and sex related topics. In the 20s, women wouldn't interact with the opposite gender except in certain circumstances and certainly not in casual, social settings (drinking at bars etc), which made the flappers disgusting. In the 60s, you wouldn't sleep with someone that you aren't married to, which made the hippies disgusting. In the 90s, you wouldn't sleep with someone of the same gender that made gays disgusting, etc.

All these reasons are bad reasons to pass laws against a group of people, in my opinion.

So I'd apply the same thinking to this. Whether I personally believe what they feel is true and genuine is immaterial. So, while I may find it somewhat odd if someone says they "identify as a wheelchair bound" person even if their legs physically function properly, I would still be against passing laws against this person. Restricting access to wheelchairs or something like that...

I have not looked deeply into this since it's such a small group of people (who I suspect are only being written about to trigger the anger impulse in right wingers like in point 1 above), so I am open to be swayed that this is detrimental to society in some meaningful way but overall I revert back to "live and let live."

[*pally*]

(05-02-2023, 03:15 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: My general stance towards all trans (and similar) topics is "if it doesn't affect me, I don't care what people do or say." Transgender people view gender as a social construct (which it is) and are not comfortable with the expectations, aesthetic or otherwise, set upon them by society based on their biological sex. To me, that's fine. If you want to identify as a woman, take drugs or have surgeries to physically conform more to the female gender and participate in society as a woman, I have no problems with that, as it has not yet, nor do I expect it to, affect me (or anyone else. This isn't just a me centric belief, it extends to just humanity in general).

I think, deep down, people are so upset about the transgendered topic for a few reasons:
1. They've been told to be upset about it by people who want their vote/money/viewership but are not offering anything of substance in return, so they instead choose to activate people's impulse to anger. Often using anecdotal "fear mongering" stories that don't have any basis or statistical evidence.
2. Disgust and homophobia (like, a person who is afraid that hot chick they picked up at the club is "actually a guy" which makes them gay for being attracted to a "guy!")
3. Good old fashioned appeal to the depravity of the younger generation and "modernity". Every generation has become more liberal when it comes to sex and sex related topics. In the 20s, women wouldn't interact with the opposite gender except in certain circumstances and certainly not in casual, social settings (drinking at bars etc), which made the flappers disgusting. In the 60s, you wouldn't sleep with someone that you aren't married to, which made the hippies disgusting. In the 90s, you wouldn't sleep with someone of the same gender that made gays disgusting, etc.

All these reasons are bad reasons to pass laws against a group of people, in my opinion.

So I'd apply the same thinking to this. Whether I personally believe what they feel is true and genuine is immaterial. So, while I may find it somewhat odd if someone says they "identify as a wheelchair bound" person even if their legs physically function properly, I would still be against passing laws against this person. Restricting access to wheelchairs or something like that...

I have not looked deeply into this since it's such a small group of people (who I suspect are only being written about to trigger the anger impulse in right wingers like in point 1 above), so I am open to be swayed that this is detrimental to society in some meaningful way but overall I revert back to "live and let live."

It is interesting to note that in your post you only talked about transgendered women.  Nothing about transgendered men.  I've also noticed it is by far and away it is men who get all twisted up over the subject as well...but only as it concerns transgendered women.  It seems to come down to a penis obsession .  I mean, seriously, why are people up in arms about transgendered men.  And it itsn't  "protecting the women" that is now and has always been a line used by controllers not women.

People, even those considered mentally ill, deserve to be treated with respect...that is the viewpoint of the left.  Using them as political punching bags is cruel and based on lies by conservatives.  Children aren't being "mutilated", drag queens aren't "grooming" children, and transgendered women aren't molesting women in the locker room.  

If a person wants to ride around in a wheelchair...whatever floats their boat.  If they want resources devoted to the physically disabled, just we have to, they have to show medical proof of said disability.

[CJD]

(05-02-2023, 04:41 PM)pally Wrote: It is interesting to note that in your post you only talked about transgendered women.  Nothing about transgendered men.  I've also noticed it is by far and away it is men who get all twisted up over the subject as well...but only as it concerns transgendered women.  It seems to come down to a penis obsession .  I mean, seriously, why are people up in arms about transgendered men.  And it itsn't  "protecting the women" that is now and has always been a line used by controllers not women.

People, even those considered mentally ill, deserve to be treated with respect...that is the viewpoint of the left.  Using them as political punching bags is cruel and based on lies by conservatives.  Children aren't being "mutilated", drag queens aren't "grooming" children, and transgendered women aren't molesting women in the locker room.  

If a person wants to ride around in a wheelchair...whatever floats their boat.  If they want resources devoted to the physically disabled, just we have to, they have to show medical proof of said disability.

I agree with you 100%. Penis obsession is a good description of it. Trans panic is the new gay panic. It's also a form of toxic masculinity (the idea that if you're a man and you see a "man" as attractive, you are now less of a man.) I only mentioned trans women because they are the ones that right wingers typically target. "If you let trans women use women's bathrooms, they might rape a woman!" "If you let a trans woman participate in a race with other women, she may win!" "If you let a trans woman talk to your children, they'll molest the children!" It's always put in the context of a wolf in sheep's clothing because, at their core, I think a lot of men (in this case right wing men) are deeply misogynistic and believe that women are the weaker, lesser gender. So the only reason you'd want to "downgrade" yourself to a woman is if you were a predator of some kind.

Viewed from that perspective, a trans man just does not have that same primer for stoking fear and anger in people. Back to the 3 points, I don't think cis women are very scared of being considered lesbians for being attracted to a trans man. I don't think the right wing is fear mongering about trans men (because in their mind, that's a woman, so what is there to be scared of?) etc. 

The only controversy surrounding a trans man that I can think of is the recent shooting at the Christian School in Tennessee and the reporting on that was so muddled and confusing even I am not 100% sure that it was a trans man and not actually a trans woman that every media outlet was just misgendering.

Which just further points to the idea that the biggest thing working against trans people in general is ignorance, which becomes rage when certain talking points are prodded (point 1).

[StoneTheCrow]

Curious, is “don’t let biological males beat up on biological females in sports and don’t cut the bits off of minors” a reasonable stance around here?

[BFritz21]

(05-02-2023, 03:15 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: My general stance towards all trans (and similar) topics is "if it doesn't affect me, I don't care what people do or say." Transgender people view gender as a social construct (which it is) and are not comfortable with the expectations, aesthetic or otherwise, set upon them by society based on their biological sex. To me, that's fine. If you want to identify as a woman, take drugs or have surgeries to physically conform more to the female gender and participate in society as a woman, I have no problems with that, as it has not yet, nor do I expect it to, affect me (or anyone else. This isn't just a me centric belief, it extends to just humanity in general).

I think, deep down, people are so upset about the transgendered topic for a few reasons:
1. They've been told to be upset about it by people who want their vote/money/viewership but are not offering anything of substance in return, so they instead choose to activate people's impulse to anger. Often using anecdotal "fear mongering" stories that don't have any basis or statistical evidence.
2. Disgust and homophobia (like, a person who is afraid that hot chick they picked up at the club is "actually a guy" which makes them gay for being attracted to a "guy!")
3. Good old fashioned appeal to the depravity of the younger generation and "modernity". Every generation has become more liberal when it comes to sex and sex related topics. In the 20s, women wouldn't interact with the opposite gender except in certain circumstances and certainly not in casual, social settings (drinking at bars etc), which made the flappers disgusting. In the 60s, you wouldn't sleep with someone that you aren't married to, which made the hippies disgusting. In the 90s, you wouldn't sleep with someone of the same gender that made gays disgusting, etc.

All these reasons are bad reasons to pass laws against a group of people, in my opinion.

So I'd apply the same thinking to this. Whether I personally believe what they feel is true and genuine is immaterial. So, while I may find it somewhat odd if someone says they "identify as a wheelchair bound" person even if their legs physically function properly, I would still be against passing laws against this person. Restricting access to wheelchairs or something like that...

I have not looked deeply into this since it's such a small group of people (who I suspect are only being written about to trigger the anger impulse in right wingers like in point 1 above), so I am open to be swayed that this is detrimental to society in some meaningful way but overall I revert back to "live and let live."

So you think it's ok if I'm denied needed services or on a waiting list for something like a mechanical wheelchair (and I can't leave my place until I get it) because someone that identified as disabled is on the list ahead of me?

We had to wait years to get a handicapped van and a chair lift to the basement and, by the time I was approved, I had already moved into my dorm in college. Keep in mind that was 4 years later since I had to repeat my sophomore year.

What about something like handicapped parking? You think it's ok for someone to take a handicapped spot and force an elderly person or someone that's disabled to walk a long way because that person identifies as needing it?

[BFritz21]

(05-02-2023, 05:45 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Curious, is “don’t let biological males beat up on biological females in sports and don’t cut the bits off of minors” a reasonable stance around here?

To some of us, yes.

To others, those are just tips of the icebergs.............

[CJD]

(05-02-2023, 06:18 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: So you think it's ok if I'm denied needed services or on a waiting list for something like a mechanical wheelchair (and I can't leave my place until I get it) because someone that identified as disabled is on the list ahead of me?

We had to wait years to get a handicapped van and a chair lift to the basement and, by the time I was approved, I had already moved into my dorm in college. Keep in mind that was 4 years later since I had to repeat my sophomore year.

What about something like handicapped parking? You think it's ok for someone to take a handicapped spot and force an elderly person or someone that's disabled to walk a long way because that person identifies as needing it?

In this theoretical world, no I would not be okay with this. I think there would be room to differentiate between "transdisabled" and "disabled" just like we differentiate between "trans people" and "cis people." In the cases you offered, "disabled" people would have higher priority over "transdisabled" people.

Of course, the ideal solution would involve not having a 4 year waiting list to get disabled people the equipment they need to live their lives, "transdisabled" or otherwise.

[Belsnickel]

This really has gotten me to thinking about the crossovers between sex/gender and impairment/disability. Like, the level of someone's impairment could be minimal or extremely pervasive, but the way in which they present that impairment and it effects their interaction with society, their disability, can also be on a spectrum and may not match up with where their impairment is on the spectrum. And of course, not all impairments or disabilities are immediately recognizable, if at all.

It really is an interesting philosophical conundrum to get into. I mean, technically speaking for all my life I could've qualified for things like handicapped parking and what not because of my weight. But, because I never viewed myself as disabled I never applied for those sorts of things even though when it boiled down to it I had an impairment (well, several, but that's a whole other story). I also know an amputee who really lives his life in a way where he doesn't like to come across as disabled. He goes around on only one leg and is a very successful person right now as a motivational speaker, author, and lately a comedian. I haven't talked to him in 20 years or so, but he used to refuse to use his handicapped permit unless he couldn't find other parking, for instance (or if it was raining or something).

It's just weird to think about all of this.

[Millhouse]

(05-02-2023, 03:15 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: My general stance towards all trans (and similar) topics is "if it doesn't affect me, I don't care what people do or say." Transgender people view gender as a social construct (which it is) and are not comfortable with the expectations, aesthetic or otherwise, set upon them by society based on their biological sex. To me, that's fine. If you want to identify as a woman, take drugs or have surgeries to physically conform more to the female gender and participate in society as a woman, I have no problems with that, as it has not yet, nor do I expect it to, affect me (or anyone else. This isn't just a me centric belief, it extends to just humanity in general).

I think, deep down, people are so upset about the transgendered topic for a few reasons:
1. They've been told to be upset about it by people who want their vote/money/viewership but are not offering anything of substance in return, so they instead choose to activate people's impulse to anger. Often using anecdotal "fear mongering" stories that don't have any basis or statistical evidence.
2. Disgust and homophobia (like, a person who is afraid that hot chick they picked up at the club is "actually a guy" which makes them gay for being attracted to a "guy!")
3. Good old fashioned appeal to the depravity of the younger generation and "modernity". Every generation has become more liberal when it comes to sex and sex related topics. In the 20s, women wouldn't interact with the opposite gender except in certain circumstances and certainly not in casual, social settings (drinking at bars etc), which made the flappers disgusting. In the 60s, you wouldn't sleep with someone that you aren't married to, which made the hippies disgusting. In the 90s, you wouldn't sleep with someone of the same gender that made gays disgusting, etc.

All these reasons are bad reasons to pass laws against a group of people, in my opinion.

So I'd apply the same thinking to this. Whether I personally believe what they feel is true and genuine is immaterial. So, while I may find it somewhat odd if someone says they "identify as a wheelchair bound" person even if their legs physically function properly, I would still be against passing laws against this person. Restricting access to wheelchairs or something like that...

I have not looked deeply into this since it's such a small group of people (who I suspect are only being written about to trigger the anger impulse in right wingers like in point 1 above), so I am open to be swayed that this is detrimental to society in some meaningful way but overall I revert back to "live and let live."

Im sure those are some reasons the trans topic has been prevalent of late. especially the further right on the political spectrum you go. But I also think there has been a rise of radicals on the left that have been pushing their opinions and agendas more and more these last few years now. It has gotten to the point where more & more liberals "of 10 years ago" like Bill Maher, a ton of moderates like myself, and moderate Republicans are starting to push back on a few of these trans issues. And of course like anything, the 'more conservative right' is pushing back harder than us more in the middle would like to see.

For example there is a trend among some of these radical wokesters that would call me a transphobic garbage human being because as a straight man/male, I would refuse to have sexual relations with a trans-female because they have male body parts. Its like jeez what the heck lol.

Personally I dont care what a person does as I am a pro LBGQ guy. But there are a couple or so things where I have an opinionated line drawn with the T debates going on.