The Unvaxinated = the Taliban

[CJD]

Liberals are so cringe.

[Arturo Bandini]

One thing is sure Talibans are afghan conservatives.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-31-2021, 01:39 AM)Dill Wrote: To whom is the danger? 

I.e., who are the domestic Taliban?

The danger is to everyone in this country. Inflammatory speech like this only furthers the divide and emboldens some to demonize fellow Americans.  We've seen over and over (and over, and over, and over) again what this is doing to this country.

It's even worse with statements like this which are rather ambigious.  Is he talking about anti-vaxers, or people who remain unvvacinated?  Is he talking about MAGA people?  Is he talking about the Proud Boys?  Is he talking about Republicans?  While there may be an answer to this in his own mind, to the people reading it it's up for interpretation.

There are consequences for labeling people as Nazi's, or facsists, or now the Taliban, just as there are consequences for the low IQ people who believed the DNC is filled with pedophiles.  Whether you look to January 6th, or the Antifa/Protesters meeting Kyle Rittenhouse and Co., or any number of confrontations that play out on our streets almost daily, this type of language helps no one.

Forgetting all of the above, and the danger in using descriptions and language like this, this is just downright offensive and inaccurate.  One only needs to read about what the Taliban did to that folk singer a few days ago to know there is no comparison to be made to anything that is occuring here.  And that's just a singular example. 

There's a plethora of things happening right now in that country.  Here's a story of the Taliban demanding a woman cook for them, and when she said she couldn't they beat her and then shot her in front of her children. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/asia/afghanistan-women-taliban-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

Here's a story about the beatings that are occuring and the targeting of activists and women and children.  One of the more chilling things in here is that women are actually burning their diplomas because they're fearful that the Taliban will learn they are educated. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/25/kabul-women-activists-hide-fear-taliban-take-afghanistan/5580807001/

There really should be no need to explain this to anyone..  I'm not sure how anyone couldn't see the danger in using language like this.  I'm also not sure how anyone can't see how stupid of a comparison it is either.  That leads me to only one conclusion; they know exactly what they're doing and they don't care.  This is all a means to advance their own political interests.  And it's absolutely disgusting the lengths they'll go to villify the other side.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2021, 01:39 AM)Dill Wrote: To whom is the danger? 

I.e., who are the domestic Taliban?

Easily answered, whomever Michael Moore disagrees with politically.  That will usually apply to whichever person cares to engage in such inane and incendiary comparisons.  Hence the danger of such comparisons.  But keeping making them, Dill.  I'm sure no harm will come from such it, I'm sure it won't further polarize an already deeply divided nation.

Or maybe Moore was engaging in an academic comparison for scholarly purposes?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2021, 09:39 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: One thing is sure Talibans are afghan conservatives.

Not really, they're not trying to conserve anything.  They are attempting to uproot and destroy what already exists, that's not a conservative.  Sounds to me like your issue is with their dogmatic theocratic ways, but for some reason you don't feel the need to complain about that.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2021, 09:53 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The danger is to everyone in this country. Inflammatory speech like this only furthers the divide and emboldens some to demonize fellow Americans.  We've seen over and over (and over, and over, and over) again what this is doing to this country.

It's even worse with statements like this which are rather ambigious.  Is he talking about anti-vaxers, or people who remain unvvacinated?  Is he talking about MAGA people?  Is he talking about the Proud Boys?  Is he talking about Republicans?  While there may be an answer to this in his own mind, to the people reading it it's up for interpretation.

There are consequences for labeling people as Nazi's, or facsists, or now the Taliban, just as there are consequences for the low IQ people who believed the DNC is filled with pedophiles.  Whether you look to January 6th, or the Antifa/Protesters meeting Kyle Rittenhouse and Co., or any number of confrontations that play out on our streets almost daily, this type of language helps no one.

Forgetting all of the above, and the danger in using descriptions and language like this, this is just downright offensive and inaccurate.  One only needs to read about what the Taliban did to that folk singer a few days ago to know there is no comparison to be made to anything that is occuring here.  And that's just a singular example. 

There's a plethora of things happening right now in that country.  Here's a story of the Taliban demanding a woman cook for them, and when she said she couldn't they beat her and then shot her in front of her children. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/asia/afghanistan-women-taliban-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

Here's a story about the beatings that are occuring and the targeting of activists and women and children.  One of the more chilling things in here is that women are actually burning their diplomas because they're fearful that the Taliban will learn they are educated. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/25/kabul-women-activists-hide-fear-taliban-take-afghanistan/5580807001/

There really should be no need to explain this to anyone..  I'm not sure how anyone couldn't see the danger in using language like this.  I'm also not sure how anyone can't see how stupid of a comparison it is either.  That leads me to only one conclusion; they know exactly what they're doing and they don't care.  This is all a means to advance their own political interests.  And it's absolutely disgusting the lengths they'll go to villify the other side.

I've been on record as opposing such comparisons for several years, going back to the old board.  I can tell you firsthand that recent events (the past few years) have only solidly reinforced that belief.  I have seen virulent anti law enforcement rhetoric, either tolerated or propagated by many in the media, turn the atmosphere in which law enforcement works in to a toxic miasma.  People routinely speak and act towards law enforcement in ways that were borderline unthinkable a few short years ago.  Attacking officers taking someone into custody, throwing objects at law enforcement doing their job.  Maybe national level politicians claiming that law enforcement is racist, serves white supremacy, started as slave catchers and looks to murder "people of color" whenever they can get away with it has something to do with that?  Here's a wonderful example from NYC;






So when someone like Dill tells me such comparisons are an academic comparison and that he's engaged in scholarly research I call bullshit.  Even giving Dill the benefit of the doubt that this is his intention, it most certainly is not the intention of the vast, vast majority of those engaged in such comparisons.  And when people such as Dill seek to excuse such comparisons they're doing so with a broad brush, whether they realize it or not.  You want to raise concerns about behavior, feel free.  You want to make historical comparisons, do so, but don't use examples so extreme and inflammatory that the mere mention of the group being compared raises strong feelings.


As you stated, it baffles me that this even has to be explained to people, to me this is obvious as day.  But that might be because I see the real world consequences of it every day instead of theorizing and debating about it from behind a computer screen.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Joy Reid getting in on the act too.

https://www.businessinsider.com/msnbc-host-joy-ann-reid-likens-christian-conservatives-to-taliban-2021-8

"This is the real-life Handmaid's Tale. A true cautionary tale for the US, which has our own far religious right dreaming of a theocracy that would impose a particular brand of Christianity, drive women from the workforce and solely into childbirth, and control all politics,"


I suppose in this case Reid's being a woman overrode her bigotry towards homosexuals.

[Arturo Bandini]

(08-31-2021, 01:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not really, they're not trying to conserve anything.  They are attempting to uproot and destroy what already exists, that's not a conservative.  Sounds to me like your issue is with their dogmatic theocratic ways, but for some reason you don't feel the need to complain about that.

Apart of their traditions and way of living.

That's the thing about talibans, people view them with western eyes and they can't understand.

In Western civilization, we identify ourselves with career, in middle east they identify themselves with their religion.

For these people their religion and traditions are the things they want to conserve. They don't give a damn to the consumering way of life. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2021, 02:26 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Apart of their traditions and way of living.

That's the thing about talibans, people view them with western eyes and they can't understand.

In Western civilization, we identify ourselves with career, in middle east they identify themselves with their religion.

For these people their religion and traditions are the things they want to conserve. They don't give a damn to the consumering way of life. 

Well stated.  However, your own post refutes your previous post.  The Taliban have absolutely nothing of substance in common with conservatives in Western countries.  I am pleased we can agree on this.

[BigPapaKain]

(08-31-2021, 02:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well stated.  However, your own post refutes your previous post.  The Taliban have absolutely nothing of substance in common with conservatives in Western countries.  I am pleased we can agree on this.

The hatred of women/gay/tran's rights has gotta have some overlap in there. There's the religious fanaticism, too.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2021, 03:12 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: The hatred of women/gay/tran's rights has gotta have some overlap in there. There's the religious fanaticism, too.

I think hatred is a strong word, except with the most extreme cases i.e. the "God Hates ****" group.  Of course religion being the justification for the beliefs has some overlap, but the difference in degree is enormous.  The Taliban, and other Islamic extremists, will rape you and set you on fire.  The most extreme religious fanatics in the west, which probably number in the low thousands, would be an average to moderate Taliban/ISIS/Islamic extremist, who number in the multi-millions in Afghanistan alone.

In any event, the original point stands, that comparisons to extreme groups serves no legitimate purpose other than to inflame and polarize

[BigPapaKain]

(08-31-2021, 03:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think hatred is a strong word, except with the most extreme cases i.e. the "God Hates ****" group.  Of course religion being the justification for the beliefs has some overlap, but the difference in degree is enormous.  The Taliban, and other Islamic extremists, will rape you and set you on fire.  The most extreme religious fanatics in the west, which probably number in the low thousands, would be an average to moderate Taliban/ISIS/Islamic extremist, who number in the multi-millions in Afghanistan alone.

In any event, the original point stands, that comparisons to extreme groups serves no legitimate purpose other than to inflame and polarize

You don't think - in your heart of hearts - that if western extremists had the kind of control the Taliban had, they wouldn't be doing a lot of the same shit?

I do agree that the comparisons do more harm than good, fwiw - I'm not saying this to try and do so. I just believe - given religion's part in a lot of the most horrible things in human history - the only things separating western extremists and groups like the Taliban are the Pacific Ocean and the amount of influence they have on their given regions.

[Arturo Bandini]

(08-31-2021, 02:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well stated.  However, your own post refutes your previous post.  The Taliban have absolutely nothing of substance in common with conservatives in Western countries.  I am pleased we can agree on this.

Did I say otherwise ? I said on the afghan's political spectrum talibans are the conservatives.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2021, 03:47 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: You don't think - in your heart of hearts - that if western extremists had the kind of control the Taliban had, they wouldn't be doing a lot of the same shit?

I do agree that the comparisons do more harm than good, fwiw - I'm not saying this to try and do so. I just believe - given religion's part in a lot of the most horrible things in human history - the only things separating western extremists and groups like the Taliban are the Pacific Ocean and the amount of influence they have on their given regions.

Western extremists?  Sure, some of them.  The biggest, and most salient difference, is that they don't exist in very large numbers.  That era of Christianity is far in the rearview mirror, you won't see anything like that again barring a borderline apocalypse.  Of course you could make the exact same argument for Antifa and compare them to Stalinist Russia, there are plenty of them who would love to round people up into gulag and "reeducate them".  They have nothing to do with religion.  But they don't exist in anything close to the same numbers either.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2021, 03:49 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Did I say otherwise ? I said on the afghan's political spectrum talibans are the conservatives.

Given the point of this thread your original post did not read that way.  My apologies if I misinterpreted.

[BigPapaKain]

(08-31-2021, 04:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Western extremists?  Sure, some of them.  The biggest, and most salient difference, is that they don't exist in very large numbers.  That era of Christianity is far in the rearview mirror, you won't see anything like that again barring a borderline apocalypse.  Of course you could make the exact same argument for Antifa and compare them to Stalinist Russia, there are plenty of them who would love to round people up into gulag and "reeducate them".  They have nothing to do with religion.  But they don't exist in anything close to the same numbers either.  

That's a fair assessment.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-31-2021, 03:47 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: You don't think - in your heart of hearts - that if western extremists had the kind of control the Taliban had, they wouldn't be doing a lot of the same shit?

Can you define "western extemists?"  I'm just curious what groups of people you have living in the western world that would behave similarly given the opportunity.  And given your answer, it would be interesting to explore how many of these people you think exist.  Is it dozens?  Hundreds?  Thousands?  Millions?  I would assume it's gotta be a large number if we're using hypothetical where they've taken control.

Keep in mind, "a lot of the same shit" includes beheading people, burning people alive, throwing gay people off of buildings, taking child sex slaves, cutting women's fingers off for wearing nail polish, beating and then shooting a mother in front of her children, etc.  (Note: I can find links to examples of each of these occuring all within the last 90 days.  I also could provide dozens of more equally heinous descriptions.)

[BigPapaKain]

(08-31-2021, 04:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Can you define "western extemists?"  I'm just curious what groups of people you have living in the western world that would behave similarly given the opportunity.

Keep in mind, "a lot of the same shit" includes beheading people, burning people alive, throwing gay people off of buildings, taking child sex slaves, cutting women's fingers off for wearing nail polish, beating and then shooting a mother in front of her children, etc.  (Note: I can find links to examples of each of these occuring all within the last 90 days.  I also could provide dozens of more equally heinous descriptions.)

Westboro comes to mind first and foremost. I mean we are comparing worst to worst in this scenario.

I'm just kind of spit balling out here, so if I come across as saying Evangelists=Taliban, I apologize. However - and this is anecdotal - the people I see calling for violence are the people around me of a Christian and right wing bent.

[BigPapaKain]

I also feel I should point out that I tend to see the worst when it comes to religion, student of history that I am. I've read far too many atrocities being committed in the name of gods or God to feel any differently at this point.

[Arturo Bandini]

(08-31-2021, 04:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Can you define "western extemists?"  I'm just curious what groups of people you have living in the western world that would behave similarly given the opportunity.  And given your answer, it would be interesting to explore how many of these people you think exist.  Is it dozens?  Hundreds?  Thousands?  Millions?  I would assume it's gotta be a large number if we're using hypothetical where they've taken control.

Keep in mind, "a lot of the same shit" includes beheading people, burning people alive, throwing gay people off of buildings, taking child sex slaves, cutting women's fingers off for wearing nail polish, beating and then shooting a mother in front of her children, etc.  (Note: I can find links to examples of each of these occuring all within the last 90 days.  I also could provide dozens of more equally heinous descriptions.)

Burning someone alive is haram ( a sin ) because it's Allah's punishment. Isis did it one time but I don't remember talibans doing that.

For the rest, it's just religious shit. You have the same punishments in the ancient testament. The Coran is basically a traduction of the ancient testament which is a really violent book.