The growing anti-Muslim sentiment

[Belsnickel]

There have been a number of threads that have talked about this in the past year around these parts. They have talked primarily about immigrants from Muslim areas to the Western world. We have seen a growing normalization of this sentiment. The rise of Trump, the rise of Pegida, AfD, SIOE, and a host of others. There is a trend across the developed world right now and I figured a thread about this sort of thing, where we could share news items and discuss this phenomenon would be good.

What prompted this for me this morning was this article: http://www.dw.com/en/almost-two-thirds-of-germans-believe-islam-does-not-belong-in-germany-poll-finds/a-19251169

Long story short, about 60% of Germans see no place for Islam in their country. The number is about half among Millennials only, but still a high and growing number.

[StLucieBengal]

I have been trying to have this discussion for a while now. Unfortunately it seems very few seem interested.

Europe is definitely becoming more anti Islam. and honestly can you blame them the average citizen..... The EU policies have fueled these sentiments and allowed these parties to grow.

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2016, 01:13 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I have been trying to have this discussion for a while now.  Unfortunately it seems very few seem interested.  

There have been plenty of discussions about this topic.  The only thing people have not been interested in is yout hyperbole.  You are always claiming that the anti-Islamic groups have "taken control" when in fac t they are only making minor gains.

I ahve been aware of anti-Islamic feelings in Europe for 30 years.  In college I had a friend who's mother was from France, and she was always saying that the Muslims were ruining the country.

It is getting much worse now due to the refugee problem.  I have always agreed that there would be a backlash.  I just have disagreed with your exaggerations.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-12-2016, 01:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There have been plenty of discussions about this topic.  The only thing people have not been interested in is yout hyperbole.  You are always claiming that the anti-Islamic groups have "taken control" when in fac t they are only making minor gains.

I ahve been aware of anti-Islamic feelings in Europe for 30 years.  In college I had a friend who's mother was from France, and she was always saying that the Muslims were ruining the country.

It is getting much worse now due to the refugee problem.  I have always agreed that there would be a backlash.  I just have disagreed with your exaggerations.

Since I have been posting about this topic it's done nothing but grow at insane rates....   To the point where AfD is actually making anti Islam as part of their standards.  Before they had to be anti immigrant or anti refugee to be anti Muslim.   Now they are just saying it ....   All because the current leaders in the EU refuse to acknowledge the immigrant crisis.   

Once the UK leaves this will start the domino effect.   With these groups now growing it's only a matter of time until they grab real legislative powers.    

The whole time I have said where this is going and you have told me that no way anyone will leave the EU....  No way these right wing parties will win anything.     Yet they keep winning and growing.   

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2016, 02:38 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Since I have been posting about this topic it's done nothing but grow at insane rates....   To the point where AfD is actually making anti Islam as part of their standards.  Before they had to be anti immigrant or anti refugee to be anti Muslim.   Now they are just saying it ....   All because the current leaders in the EU refuse to acknowledge the immigrant crisis.   

Once the UK leaves this will start the domino effect.   With these groups now growing it's only a matter of time until they grab real legislative powers.    

The whole time I have said where this is going and you have told me that no way anyone will leave the EU....  No way these right wing parties will win anything.     Yet they keep winning and growing.   

I have never said it would not happen.  I have always said that I knew there was a problem.  All I ever said is that it has not happened yet when you started exaggerating.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-12-2016, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have never said it would not happen.  I have always said that I knew there was a problem.  All I ever said is that it has not happened yet when you started exaggerating.

Nice back peddle.   I have laid out this exact scenario.   Even to the point where the Russians have been funding some of these parties.   

Been told countless times that the French would never support National Front... Yet they needed to band the other parties together to prevent a landslide victory In the last election since .   

Was told groups like PEGIDA and AfD would never e relevant ....   Yet they are in Germany.    

The U.K. Has an EU ref in June and Brexit is winning despite Cameron campaigning to stay.   

Poland elected far right. 

Portugal elected an anti EU government.   

Italy and Sweden will be the next getting an EU ref.   

But yeah no one here ever told me how silly I was for posting about these exact things before they were even a thing.   

Instead of trying to deny you and others attempts to dismiss these threads when I made them back then... Just say hey Lucie you were right, I was wrong, I didn't expect it to hit that hard. Now let's talk about the spread and how it's going to affect the world.

[Belsnickel]

(05-12-2016, 07:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Nice back peddle.   I have laid out this exact scenario.   Even to the point where the Russians have been funding some of these parties.   

Been told countless times that the French would never support National Front... Yet they needed to band the other parties together to prevent a landslide victory In the last election since .   

Was told groups like PEGIDA and AfD would never e relevant ....   Yet they are in Germany.    

The U.K. Has an EU ref in June and Brexit is winning despite Cameron campaigning to stay.   

Poland elected far right. 

Portugal elected an anti EU government.   

Italy and Sweden will be the next getting an EU ref.   

But yeah no one here ever told me how silly I was for posting about these exact things before they were even a thing.   

I still maintain that AfD will not gain any sort of real power in Germany. The anti-Muslim sentiment may be high but there are too many that are fearful of another Nazi party, and that correlation is drawn to the AfD often. They will gain seats, but other parties will as well, mostly taking them away from the CDU.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-12-2016, 07:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I still maintain that AfD will not gain any sort of real power in Germany. The anti-Muslim sentiment may be high but there are too many that are fearful of another Nazi party, and that correlation is drawn to the AfD often. They will gain seats, but other parties will as well, mostly taking them away from the CDU.

I never said AfD would take over.  But the fact they will have a seat at the table is telling in itself.   This speaks to where Europe is going IMO.  

[*bfine32*]

Well this is off to a great start:

"I was right"

"No you weren't; I've been right all along"

"No you haven't"

"Yes I have".

.......

So much for discussion the issue.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-12-2016, 08:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well this is off to a great start:

"I was right"

"No you weren't; I've been right all along"

"No you haven't"

"Yes I have".

.......

So much for discussion the issue.

Matt has been pretty logical through this.... He has a better of understanding because he also pays close attention to European news.   He has thought it would move slower than it has which is understandable... If you have a positive view of how Europe is being ran the past decade or two.    

[Vas Deferens]

(05-12-2016, 07:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Nice back peddle.   I have laid out this exact scenario.   Even to the point where the Russians have been funding some of these parties.   

Been told countless times that the French would never support National Front... Yet they needed to band the other parties together to prevent a landslide victory In the last election since .   

Was told groups like PEGIDA and AfD would never e relevant ....   Yet they are in Germany.    

The U.K. Has an EU ref in June and Brexit is winning despite Cameron campaigning to stay.   

Poland elected far right. 

Portugal elected an anti EU government.   

Italy and Sweden will be the next getting an EU ref.   

But yeah no one here ever told me how silly I was for posting about these exact things before they were even a thing.   

Instead of trying to deny you and others attempts to dismiss these threads when I made them back then...  Just say hey Lucie you were right, I was wrong, I didn't expect it to hit that hard.     Now let's talk about the spread and how it's going to affect the world.

How do you type on your phone and hold that horn up to your mouth at the same time?

[GMDino]

(05-12-2016, 07:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Nice back peddle.   I have laid out this exact scenario.   Even to the point where the Russians have been funding some of these parties.   

Been told countless times that the French would never support National Front... Yet they needed to band the other parties together to prevent a landslide victory In the last election since .   

Was told groups like PEGIDA and AfD would never e relevant ....   Yet they are in Germany.    

The U.K. Has an EU ref in June and Brexit is winning despite Cameron campaigning to stay.   

Poland elected far right. 

Portugal elected an anti EU government.   

Italy and Sweden will be the next getting an EU ref.   

But yeah no one here ever told me how silly I was for posting about these exact things before they were even a thing.   

Instead of trying to deny you and others attempts to dismiss these threads when I made them back then...  Just say hey Lucie you were right, I was wrong, I didn't expect it to hit that hard.     Now let's talk about the spread and how it's going to affect the world.

(05-12-2016, 08:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I never said AfD would take over.  But the fact they will have a seat at the table is telling in itself.   This speaks to where Europe is going IMO.  

[Rotobeast]

C'mon.... give Lucie at least a little bit of credit.
If you do not remember, I can bump the Immigrant Meta-Thread that was created.
He didn't slam-dunk everything, but he was at least attempting to discuss the plight of each of the affected countries and the direction each may take.

People are on his back enough and this time he deserves a damn reach-around.

[treee]

I can understand the frustration of lack of assimilation in some of these gracious countries. I also can't help but feel like public opinion has been swayed purposefully by certain interest groups and has caused many to lose focus of the greater humanitarian effort taking place.

[Vas Deferens]

(05-12-2016, 09:38 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: C'mon.... give Lucie at least a little bit of credit.
If you do not remember, I can bump the Immigrant Meta-Thread that was created.
He didn't slam-dunk everything, but he was at least attempting to discuss the plight of each of the affected countries and the direction each may take.

People are on his back enough and this time he deserves a damn reach-around.

Oh, he's been talking about it.  Ad nauseam, no denying that.  Probably not getting the shiny sticker on his report card he's looking for due to the lack of tact while discussing the topic previously.  

[Belsnickel]

(05-12-2016, 08:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Matt has been pretty logical through this.... He has a better of understanding because he also pays close attention to European news.   He has thought it would move slower than it has which is understandable... If you have a positive view of how Europe is being ran the past decade or two.    

I could be wrong, but I don't think he was referencing me in his post. But thanks for the nod.

I have a hard time with this stuff for a number of reasons. I pay more attention to German politics than any other nation over there and the thing that I see is that there is a growing anti-Muslim sentiment and groups like AfD are capitalizing on it. The unfortunate part is that there are a lot of things that people in Germany do not agree with them on, but they aren't paying attention to that so much as they are pissed off about the circumstances they are facing with the immigrants.

[Rotobeast]

(05-12-2016, 09:51 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Oh, he's been talking about it.  Ad nauseam, no denying that.  Probably not getting the shiny sticker on his report card he's looking for due to the lack of tact while discussing the topic previously.  

Yeah, I understand that a lot of people do not care for some of his opinions.
However, I do not have to always agree with someone to learn something from them.

Different types of people make this forum tick.
We all feed off of each other, learn, are frustrated, and are entertained.
Just consider the political discussions you have in real life.
You come off pretty polished from the activity here.....don't you ?

Regardless of what anyone says, we are all better from every minute of it.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-12-2016, 09:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I could be wrong, but I don't think he was referencing me in his post. But thanks for the nod.

I have a hard time with this stuff for a number of reasons. I pay more attention to German politics than any other nation over there and the thing that I see is that there is a growing anti-Muslim sentiment and groups like AfD are capitalizing on it. The unfortunate part is that there are a lot of things that people in Germany do not agree with them on, but they aren't paying attention to that so much as they are pissed off about the circumstances they are facing with the immigrants.

That's the same in France as well.   

But the border policy of the EU has allowed these parties to come into serious play.    Plus add on the refugee crisis.   These parties would have their knees cut off had the EU just slammed the door on the refugees.    

A more nationalistic lean is coming all over Europe and to a point it will be a positive.    Hopefully there will be a balance in time.   I wonder how much Russia will end up benefitting from these parties ....   I imagine lots of economic benefits will follow.  

[SunsetBengal]

..

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

How is this surprising? Large scale, forced, immigration from a culture completely different than the host country is inherently going to cause a lot of resentment. Especially when elected leadership made the decision to accept these refuges with little to no public debate on the issue. It could be immigrants from any radically different culture and the results would be exactly the same.