The hourly rate you need to afford a two-bedroom apartment in every state

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 05:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Highly qualified people are not going to work at burger joints with no upward career path.  

You are assuming every job has upward career movement. There are a lot of careers that 40k is about all they could ever truly hope to achieve. Let's be honest a large portion of people never get above slightly above entry level positions.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 05:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Highly qualified people are not going to work at burger joints with no upward career path.  

But they're getting paid similarly due to their old jobs not increasing their pay. Why wouldn't someone switch if they used to get hazard pay, or worked in a stressful job and got paid extra for it? Flipping burgers is way less stressful and way less hazardous.

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 05:09 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: That's with the silly assumption that everyone else would have their wages go up.

No it isn't.

I have already explained the math behind this.  There is no way in hell raising the minimum wage has anything more than a minimal effect on inflation.  I am saying zero, but even if it is 1 or 2 percent the low income wage earners will be getting raises of 30% or more.

I had a job the last time minimum wage went up.  I did not get a raise.  You just are not dealing with reality.

[Beaker]

(06-08-2016, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is not true.

The price of goods may go up 1 or 2 percent, but the people getting a pay raise from $7.50 to $10.00 per hour will be getting a 33% increase in pay.  So it will be a HUGE benefit to the low income wage earners.

If wages go up 33% you can well bet the price of the goods wont only increase by 1 or 2%.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 05:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it isn't.

I have already explained the math behind this.  There is no way in hell raising the minimum wage has anything more than a minimal effect on inflation.  I am saying zero, but even if it is 1 or 2 percent the low income wage earners will be getting raises of 30% or more.

I had a job the last time minimum wage went up.  I did not get a raise.  You just are not dealing with reality.

How much did minimum wage go up? 15c?

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 05:12 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: But they're getting paid similarly due to their old jobs not increasing their pay. Why wouldn't someone switch if they used to get hazard pay, or worked in a stressful job and got paid extra for it? Flipping burgers is way less stressful and way less hazardous.

If you are working a dangerous job with no upward career path for something real close to minimum wage then you probably should be trying to better your position.

The fact is that there are not very many dangerous jobs with no upward career path that pay close to minimum wage.  You are talking about a very low percentage.

And I am not talking about a minimum wage of $15 per hour.  It may need to be that high in certain high cost areas, but that is a local issue.  I am talking about a federal minimum wage of something like $10 per hour.

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 05:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you are working a dangerous job with no upward career path for something real close to minimum wage then you probably should be trying to better your position.

The fact is that there are not very many dangerous jobs with no upward career path that pay close to minimum wage.  You are talking about a very low percentage.

And I am not talking about a minimum wage of $15 per hour.  It may need to be that high in certain high cost areas, but that is a local issue.  I am talking about a federal minimum wage of something like $10 per hour.

Well this changes everything. I can get behind a 10$/hr minimum wage. There is a big difference between $10 and $15, $15 closes in on some entry level college degree requiring jobs $10 does not.. I think many would agree it needs to be caught up and 10$/hr would be a good start then adjust with inflation regularly.

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 05:15 PM)Beaker Wrote: If wages go up 33% you can well bet the price of the goods wont only increase by 1 or 2%.

If there are currently 5 million people working full time for minimum wage (a number someone else posted) then raising their pay from $7.50 an hour to $10 per hour would only increase national total income by 2 tenths of one percent.  

It just is not going to make that much difference.  Labor is only a percentage of total costs, and wages earned by minimum wage earners is only a very small percentage of labor costs.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 05:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: Well this changes everything. I can get behind a 10$/hr minimum wage. There is a big difference between $10 and $15, $15 closes in on some entry level college degree requiring jobs $10 does not.. I think many would agree it needs to be caught up and 10$/hr would be a good start then adjust with inflation regularly.

Working our way up would be ok, but increasing it $2.50 in one year wouldn't. It would still force companies to increase the pay of everyone else. If it's only ~.50c increase incrementally then it wouldn't effect other jobs as much if any.

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 05:25 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Working our way up would be ok, but increasing it $2.50 in one year wouldn't. It would still force companies to increase the pay of everyone else. If it's only ~.50c increase incrementally then it wouldn't effect other jobs as much if any.

.50c doesn't do anything really. 2.50 could be a jump, but that is the federal minimum many states already require more so in most cases it wouldn't be a true $2.50. I know a lot of fast food places around here already pay mid 8's to 9. If not they can adjust prices of product, but I don't think they will in the end.

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 05:25 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: It would still force companies to increase the pay of everyone else.

No it would not.

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 05:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it would not.

I agree with this at 10/hr but not at 15/hr. At 15 you are just getting too close to people who have higher education.

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 05:37 PM)Au165 Wrote: I agree with this at 10/hr but not at 15/hr. At 15 you are just getting too close to people who have higher education.

I still don't see people with higher education leaving jobs with career advancement possibilities to work at McDonalds for the same pay.

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 05:00 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: True enough. But if I weigh out the long term side effects of my current job versus the long term effects at McDonald's, I'm taking the loss and jumping ship.

Same here.
I don't make a lot over $15/hr.
I'm in pain daily, due to 27 years at my current job.
Taco Bell would be far less physically taxing.
The free food would be nice, as well.

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 05:49 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Taco Bell would be far less physically taxing.
The free diarrhea would be nice, as well.

FIFY

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 05:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: FIFY

I enjoy it....... and you could too.

[*Nately120*]

(06-08-2016, 04:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: They demand more by leaving. If I am not making 15$ working a job that requires some skill and stress why wouldn't I leave knowing literally any job I get will pay the same? Your delusional if you don't think it will push all wages higher? Your all for competition among businesses, yet you want to eliminate the competition for higher pay by just giving it to people. That is interesting to me.

I'm with you.  I know as soon as this change is made I'm going to tell my boss to go to hell and scrub toilets for the rest of my life.

(06-08-2016, 06:21 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I enjoy it....... and you could too.

You enjoy diarrhea?  Kinky.  But seriously, are we really worrying about people walking away from real jobs to flip burgers for $15 an hour until they are immediately replaced with touch-screens?  

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(06-08-2016, 05:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: Well this changes everything. I can get behind a 10$/hr minimum wage. There is a big difference between $10 and $15, $15 closes in on some entry level college degree requiring jobs $10 does not.. I think many would agree it needs to be caught up and 10$/hr would be a good start then adjust with inflation regularly.

When I was in school back in 2005, I had a Co-Op job writing Java for a insurance company and they paid me $14.50 per hour.

Now, imagine that same Co-Op job writing Java and minimum wage is $15.00 an hour. I think the insurance company would cut the program or have to pay college students $22.00 to $25.00 an hour just to get them in there. 

Co-Op jobs are a fantastic thing for college students since they actually teach real life application and how real life work is. Would raising the minimum wage close this expierience off to students?

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 05:27 PM)Au165 Wrote: .50c doesn't do anything really. 2.50 could be a jump, but that is the federal minimum many states already require more so in most cases it wouldn't be a true $2.50. I know a lot of fast food places around here already pay mid 8's to 9. If not they can adjust prices of product, but I don't think they will in the end.

Only 15 states have minimum wage over $8.50/hr. I still think it would be too drastic to change it to $10 in one year.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 05:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it would not.

$2.50 would. That would be about triple the biggest minimum wage increase ever.