Think games aren't scripted?

[RegularGuy22]

I'm in a mood this morning. My friend says games are legit and no funny business is going on. He says that too much money and careers are on the line for there to be any shenanigans in play. I tell him it's just the opposite and the fact that BIG money is in play is the very reason that certain play call rulings during games ARE in play. Not every game or every play but certain plays and situations are influenced by a play ruling that will give the opportunity to a particular team to change the outcome of a game.

Vonn Bell's strip sack of Jones in the backfield ruled an incomplete pass? I've viewed it 20 times and it sure looks like the ball is out of his hand before forward movement. But no, score was 20-12 at that point and a TD would make Bengals up 26-12. Can't have that in Foxboro as viewers might change channel. Have to try and keep games close for more eyes on the tube. This is just 1 play, there are many calls that are overturned or not overturned that should be that give a team an opportunity to capitalize from that call.

Isn't just the NFL, it's MLB with the questionable balls & strikes calls, NASCAR with the fake yellow flag for a hot dog wrapper on the backstretch to bunch up the field. It's about BIG money, betting and the TV contracts. Wherever there is BIG money there are manipulating fingers. The general viewing public has no idea, they live with a blindfold on.

There my rant is done. I feel better.

[Au165]

Here is why you are wrong, gambling. That may sound like a reason why you are right but in reality that is the reason you are wrong because it changes everything. Fixing games would be unethical on it's own but in a gray area of legality. Maybe one could argue those with tickets bought tickets to what they believed was an uninfluenced game but the fine print on tickets gives them a LOT of leeway. Once the gambling element entered you have massive state a federal crimes that would be committed with such actions. The NFL does not need to fix games to make billions and wouldn't jeopardize such massive fortunes and criminal liability to see a play changed for interest.

Additionally, Vegas is not to be messed with. They spend billions of their own to monitor contests they carry on their books to ensure these things don't happen. The sports books themselves would flag the federal authorities if they were to notice any such actions, which they are better equipped to do so than anyone in the world. They have AI that essentially runs data on officials, coaches, players and looks at likelihood of occurrences. If they see behavior that is out of line with normal tendencies they flag it for deeper investigation. There are too many individual books to all be in on any such actions and all of those connections would allow for more whistle blowers. Like most conspiracies, the major flaw is the idea that you could actually keep all the loose ends from spilling the beans.

In conclusion...this is nonsense. Like most things in life the most likely explanation is usually the explanation. Incompetence of officials is the reason for most issues not malice.

[Whacked]

To the OP

Hmmm. Meh. Not sure.

Some wonder if there are puppet-masters that control we masses of assess from behind the scenes and have for generations, centuries maybe millennium

High level elites and certain families that control the levers on financial, political and even social issues - heck some even argue these folks start, manipulate and control wars.

So if this is true, can games be manipulated? Perhaps.

My humble opinion? Yes to the former but no to the latter.

[RegularGuy22]

OK, if you say so. So the 2020 election was legit too?

[*Awful Llama*]

Do I think games are scripted? No. Do I think that some officials are just plain incompetent, or award calls to some teams and not others based on past team reputation, or because said teams are helmed by whining, prima donna athletes/coaches? Yes, I do.

If I had any credible evidence that the game was scripted, I'd never waste a minute watching the NFL again.

And, if the league really were looking out for the Pats they would not have allowed them to drop to 7-8 and 3rd in the AFCE. My .02.

I hope your mood improves. It is Christmas, Theo. It is the time for miracles.

[Daddy-O]

(12-26-2022, 11:07 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: OK, if you say so. So the 2020 election was legit too?

And here we go.

[CJD]

I definitely think home calls exist. That Mac Jones fumble is a classic example of a home call. Refs manage the game but I think they also manage the crowd, to an extent. If something is ruled on the field at home, I think there's a passive bias to only change it if it's so obvious your grandmother would understand it was a fumble. Cuz if you overturn a 50/50 call at home, the crowd is going to be pissed and you risk them leaving, not going to future games etc. That's bad for business.

If that fumble occurs in Cincinnati, I think it is overturned.

But that's just a guess. We have no idea what these refs are telling each other or considering when they make the decisions they make.

Your thought that refs are intentionally rigging games borders on conspiracy theory though. You would need to have actual evidence of this, not just a gut feeling, in order for anyone to believe you.

[Whacked]

(12-26-2022, 11:10 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: And here we go.

Lolol

[Garrus]

(12-26-2022, 11:07 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: OK, if you say so. So the 2020 election was legit too?

Obviously it was and you know it.

[Au165]

(12-26-2022, 11:12 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I definitely think home calls exist. That Mac Jones fumble is a classic example of a home call. Refs manage the game but I think they also manage the crowd, to an extent. If something is ruled on the field at home, I think there's a passive bias to only change it if it's so obvious your grandmother would understand it was a fumble.
If that fumble occurs in Cincinnati, I think it is overturned.

But that's just a guess. We have no idea what these refs are telling each other or considering when they make the decisions they make.

This is why incompetence is the more likely issue. Stevenson should have been whistled dead for forward progress so we also got a call of incompetence, but ours literally sealed the game.

[KillerGoose]

(12-26-2022, 11:07 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: OK, if you say so. So the 2020 election was legit too?

Let's just close this thread up before we go any further.

[CJD]

(12-26-2022, 11:10 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: And here we go.

(12-26-2022, 11:12 AM)Whacked Wrote: Lolol

(12-26-2022, 11:13 AM)Garrus Wrote: Obviously it was and you know it.

(12-26-2022, 11:15 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Let's just close this thread up before we go any further.

Or we just don't regard the obvious troll. They have no power unless you react to them.

[RegularGuy22]

I'm in a fine mood. I'm saying some games and some calls. Not every game and every call. Last years SB with Wilson called for PI on the goal line? Give me a break. Take the blindfold off. Here, I'll give an example. Different sport but same principal. Years ago when Danica Patrick moves to Nascar from Indy Car. Her 1st race the Daytona 500 and she somehow wins the pole in her 1st Stock Car race against guys that have been doing it for years? You don't think Nascar gave her a little bigger restrictor plate do you? Great for TV ratings. Eyes on the tube. That is manipulation from upstairs.

[dr tarzan]

(12-26-2022, 11:14 AM)Au165 Wrote: This is why incompetence is the more likely issue. Stevenson should have been whistled dead for forward progress so we also got a call of incompetence, but ours literally sealed the game.

That's what I thought at the time, too.   I have heard not one pundit or news source make that argument.   RB was clearly pushed 2 yards backward and wasn't going to gain  it back.  I though it should have been whistled dead and the fumble overturned.   Not even Belicheat made a stink over it.

[Bengalitis]

(12-26-2022, 10:53 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: I'm in a mood this morning. My friend says games are legit and no funny business is going on. He says that too much money and careers are on the line for there to be any shenanigans in play. I tell him it's just the opposite and the fact that BIG money is in play is the very reason that certain play call rulings during games ARE in play. Not every game or every play but certain plays and situations are influenced by a play ruling that will give the opportunity to a particular team to change the outcome of a game.

Vonn Bell's strip sack of Jones in the backfield ruled an incomplete pass? I've viewed it 20 times and it sure looks like the ball is out of his hand before forward movement. But no, score was 20-12 at that point and a TD would make Bengals up 26-12. Can't have that in Foxboro as viewers might change channel. Have to try and keep games close for more eyes on the tube. This is just 1 play, there are many calls that are overturned or not overturned that should be that give a team an opportunity to capitalize from that call.

Isn't just the NFL, it's MLB with the questionable balls & strikes calls,  NASCAR with the fake yellow flag for a hot dog wrapper on the backstretch to bunch up the field. It's about BIG money, betting and the TV contracts. Wherever there is BIG money there are manipulating fingers. The general viewing public has no idea, they live with a blindfold on.

There my rant is done. I feel better.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if a big scandal comes forth in the future, with gambling legalized, now everyone can influence the game outcome if they have something at stake, right? refs, coaches, players, owners, etc.   Bu.bu..but owners are already wealthy....yes, but  more money is always welcomed by all, even the already super wealthy.  

Hopefully the NFL, being the top of the creme in American sports, regulates itself and everyone it governs to maintain it clean, because it won't be 100% clean because people are people and some will have an additction and do it. I don't see openly, who knows privately, if they have a mechanism to prevent those with influence, from going corrupt and self-govern such a delicate issue. The integrity of the sport is all. 

Remember how the saints were taken out of teh playoffs 4? yrs ago on that blatant pass interferance, or the snow game where the raiders where snuff of a superbowl by a Brady fumble? Some may not even be gambling based, but ratings/$$$ based to garner the most thrill in the game. 

The irony is that there were more lopsided games in the past than the last 10 yrs imo.

[RegularGuy22]

(12-26-2022, 11:13 AM)Garrus Wrote: Obviously it was and you know it.

You can't be serious.

[CJD]

(12-26-2022, 11:14 AM)Au165 Wrote: This is why incompetence is the more likely issue. Stevenson should have been whistled dead for forward progress so we also got a call of incompetence, but ours literally sealed the game.

That fumble got people breaking out the rule book haha. I saw Reddit conversations about "he wasn't down because the rulebook says your forward progress isn't stopped unless you are 'restrained', which Stevenson obviously wasn't." Which then prompted the opposing side to bring out similar passages about what forward progress is etc. It was a mess.

I've always felt like forward progress is a bit of a sham. If a player wants to stay up and try and fight for yards, I say let them.  Kelce did the same thing, the only difference was Kelce was strong enough to never stop moving forward. 

If they are pushed back, you can give them their forward progress once the play is over, but I don't see why the whistle needs to be blown the second the player stops moving forward. If you don't want to risk turning the ball over, get down.

But obviously I understand it's in the rule book so it's more a disagreement with the rules rather than an opinion on whether that particular play should or should not have been whistled dead by the letter of the rules.

I do think the slow motion replay made it seem more obvious than it was that the whistle should be blown, but it also may have just been a "payback call" for not giving us the obvious Mac fumble for a touchdown. The only reason that last fumble even mattered is because they botched the first fumble, after all.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-26-2022, 11:07 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: OK, if you say so. So the 2020 election was legit too?

Not the thread for this but yes the 2020 election was legit. The justice system isn't perfect but if all courts are refusing to hear the claims it tells you one thing there's no evidence.

On to the original post I have thought the NFL was potentially rigged in the past but I don't really anymore. But having said that I do think they need to continue to make officiating better. The last few weeks there appears to be a rise in DPI not getting called not just in the Bengals game. It appears to be going around all over the league so I'm not sure if this is something refs have been told to call that way by the league. Also on the Mac Jones fumble whether it was a fumble or not ( I think it was ) it dawned on me why do we have an official watching the replay on a small screen on the field? Why not a guy up in the booth with a big screen? Then I'm watching the GB vs Miami game yesterday and a player makes a catch on the sideline is ruled out but on TV replay it's clear he got 2nd toe down. The coached challenged and instantly the refs say it was reviewed and was a catch team wouldn't lose timeout or challenge. So two things from that. 1 was that reviewed up in a booth and called down or did refs discuss on the field?
2 we are always told they review in real time so not just on a small screen but game speed. This particular play on the sideline like many others would be extremely tough to review if at game speed as many plays where a pass is deemed incomplete because the slightest movement when the players comes down. Not sure these things could be changed or caught if truly watching them at game speed. That turned into a rant.

[casear2727]

(12-26-2022, 10:53 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: I'm in a mood this morning. My friend says games are legit and no funny business is going on. He says that too much money and careers are on the line for there to be any shenanigans in play. I tell him it's just the opposite and the fact that BIG money is in play is the very reason that certain play call rulings during games ARE in play. Not every game or every play but certain plays and situations are influenced by a play ruling that will give the opportunity to a particular team to change the outcome of a game.

Vonn Bell's strip sack of Jones in the backfield ruled an incomplete pass? I've viewed it 20 times and it sure looks like the ball is out of his hand before forward movement. But no, score was 20-12 at that point and a TD would make Bengals up 26-12. Can't have that in Foxboro as viewers might change channel. Have to try and keep games close for more eyes on the tube. This is just 1 play, there are many calls that are overturned or not overturned that should be that give a team an opportunity to capitalize from that call.

Isn't just the NFL, it's MLB with the questionable balls & strikes calls,  NASCAR with the fake yellow flag for a hot dog wrapper on the backstretch to bunch up the field. It's about BIG money, betting and the TV contracts. Wherever there is BIG money there are manipulating fingers. The general viewing public has no idea, they live with a blindfold on.

There my rant is done. I feel better.

Bad refs does not equal a conspiracy...

[Soonerpeace]

The reason why at least the NFL is not rigged is common sense. Too many people would have to know to pull it off. That leaves it unlikely you could keep it quiet. That’s not to say isolated games weren’t effected by a player, coach, or official.