Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals

[*bfine32*]

(10-04-2017, 11:07 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I spoke to the origin of the word. I apologize for not supplying the link, but this is where my quote from a few posts back came from:

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/Herek_2004_SRSP.pdf


It goes into detail over the trouble with trying to look at homophobia as a clinical term to describe a fear when it describes far more than that. Weinberg certainly seems to disagree with the notion that a new word is needed, most likely because it is his baby, but I do not disagree that a more useful term could exist. That aside, it doesn't really impact the way Weinberg has been using the term since the 70's and the way it is accepted today. This particular paper goes on to discuss the way homophobia influenced the creation of other terms like transphobia and AIDS-phobia and mention the outrage from the antigay community as it marked a shift from looking at being gay as the problem to looking at discrimination against gay people being the problem. 

It makes sense that a group that believed being gay was a mental illness are staunch opponents of a term that has a clinical stigma attached to it. 

From your article:

“I coined the word homophobia to mean it was a phobia about homosexuals….It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for—home and family. It was a religious fear and it had led to great brutality as fear always does.”

We were fortunate to have the exact words of the person that coined the phrase. Whatever it has bastardized into today cannot change the intent of the phrase. 

But as I've said all along: Nobody is going to take your word from you. It is up to the user to decide his or her vocabulary. 

I will use homophobic for those that fear homosexuality and I will use ignorant to describe those that simply hate. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-04-2017, 12:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: From your article:

“I coined the word homophobia to mean it was a phobia about homosexuals….It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for—home and family. It was a religious fear and it had led to great brutality as fear always does.”

We were fortunate to have the exact words of the person that coined the phrase. Whatever it has bastardized into today cannot change the intent of the phrase. 

But as I've said all along: Nobody is going to take your word from you. It is up to the user to decide his or her vocabulary. 

I will use homophobic for those that fear homosexuality and I will use ignorant to describe those that simply hate. 

No doubt only taking what he said the term started off as and then ignoring his own words on how he personally evolved the term is intellectually honest. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-04-2017, 12:53 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No doubt only taking what he said the term started off as and then ignoring his own words on how he personally evolved the term is intellectually honest. 

I assume these are his own words that you are referring to:

When a phobia incapacitates a person from engaging in activities considered decent by society, the person himself is the sufferer….But here the phobia appears as antagonism directly toward a particular group of people. Inevitably, it leads to disdain toward the people themselves, and to mistreatment of them. The phobia in operation is a prejudice, and this means we can widen our understanding by considering the phobia from the point of view of its being a prejudice and then uncovering its motives (Weinberg, 1971; see also Weinberg, 1972, p. 8). 

Seems a whole lot like what I said a few posts ago. It is a fear (phobia) and how folks react to that fear can lead to prejudice.

Not every person that dislikes homosexuals have a phobia of them; many hate out of pure ignorance and some may hate with cause (molestation, ect...) 

But I will say it again for the last time: Nobody is taking your word from you; throw it around as you see fit. Just don't be surprised when it loses its original intent much like terrorism. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-04-2017, 01:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I assume these are his own words that you are referring to:

When a phobia incapacitates a person from engaging in activities considered decent by society, the person himself is the sufferer….But here the phobia appears as antagonism directly toward a particular group of people. Inevitably, it leads to disdain toward the people themselves, and to mistreatment of them. The phobia in operation is a prejudice, and this means we can widen our understanding by considering the phobia from the point of view of its being a prejudice and then uncovering its motives (Weinberg, 1971; see also Weinberg, 1972, p. 8). 

Seems a whole lot like what I said a few posts ago. It is a fear (phobia) and how folks react to that fear can lead to prejudice.

Not every person that dislikes homosexuals have a phobia of them; many hate out of pure ignorance and some may hate with cause (molestation, ect...) 

But I will say it again for the last time: Nobody is taking your word from you; throw it around as you see fit. Just don't be surprised when it loses its original intent much like terrorism. 

He is saying this thing he is referring to as a phobia is in operation a prejudice and by understanding that when looking the antagonism directed at the gay community, you can uncover the motives for this behavior. Herek points this out in both his introduction of the quote and analysis of it.  

I guess I should thank you for giving me permission to use terms correctly, just don't be surprised when people correct you when you use it incorrectly. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-04-2017, 01:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He is saying this thing he is referring to as a phobia is in operation a prejudice and by understanding that when looking the antagonism directed at the gay community, you can uncover the motives for this behavior. Herek points this out in both his introduction of the quote and analysis of it.  

I guess I should thank you for giving me permission to use terms correctly, just don't be surprised when people correct you when you use it incorrectly. 

Exactly, and that motive is fear.

Let's make this real simple. Do you believe the guy that coined the phrase did so because he thought and continued to think that homophobia was rooted in fear?

No thanks is required; as you derived nothing from the lesson provided. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-04-2017, 03:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Exactly, and that motive is fear.

the motive of something he described as manifesting as prejudice and/or fear is fear? That doesn't make any sense. It also doesn't make any sense considering what we know about his views on the social constructs responsible for homophobia. 

Quote:Let's make this real simple. Do you believe the guy that coined the phrase did so because he thought and continued to think that homophobia was rooted in fear?

No, hence him saying motives need to be uncovered... he cites it as one of the manifestations but not the motive.

Quote:No thanks is required; as you derived nothing from the lesson provided. 

You honestly believe what you're saying and no amount of evidence seems to sway you from this stance. This seems to be the end of any productive dialogue on the issue.

[Millhouse]

I was a homophobe in high school back in the 90s. But then went to OSU, and lived in Columbus up until a few years ago. In a few short years up there I did a 180 on my opinions on gays & lesbians. And now I feel fortunate that I was able to do so due to working with many and being neighbors for a few years with a great ole gay couple. Them two guys had the nicest flowers on the street.

All in all, I feel pity for homophobes out there that are close minded and never get the chance to actually be around gay people like I was.

[StLucieBengal]

(10-04-2017, 06:03 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I was a homophobe in high school back in the 90s. But then went to OSU, and lived in Columbus up until a few years ago. In a few short years up there I did a 180 on my opinions on gays & lesbians. And now I feel fortunate that I was able to do so due to working with many and being neighbors for a few years with a great ole gay couple. Them two guys had the nicest flowers on the street.

All in all, I feel pity for homophobes out there that are close minded and never get the chance to actually be around gay people like I was.

The gays are great. Glad you could finally join us.

I have always had a good experience with them. Some are a bit fruity but there is always odd people about.

[GMDino]

(10-04-2017, 07:04 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The gays are great.  Glad you could finally join us.

I have always had a good experience with them.

 

(10-04-2017, 07:04 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Some are a bit fruity but there is always odd people about.

I have a number of gay friends but I don't know how they taste.

[StLucieBengal]

(10-04-2017, 07:13 PM)GMDino Wrote:  




I have a number of gay friends but I don't know how they taste.

I'm sure it's just Like chicken.

pat probably knows

[GMDino]

(10-04-2017, 09:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I'm sure it's just Like chicken.

pat probably knows

You seem to know a lot about how they taste.  

[*michaelsean*]

(10-04-2017, 10:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: You seem to know a lot about how they taste.  

I've converted a few lesbians. So yeah.  I know.