This team needs to tank

[Luvnit2]

I think more fans think the FO is not all in for winning the Lombardi in 2019. Based on last 3 years and current talent level.  it appears MB and Katie feel they are a long way away, but I will say it is still early in off season.

Question becomes is can they transform the current roster into Super Bow champs in 2019 or 2020. If the FO thinks no, then in my opinion blow it up by trading AD, AJ, Geno, Dunlap and any player of great value around 30 or over.

This would put us at a disadvantage talent wise in 2019 and 2020. It would also give us tons of cap room and tons of draft picks in 2019 and 2020 for the rebuild.

In summary, I am saying do not tank on purpose to lose, play hard and learn every game how to win, but likely the lack of talent would dictate losses during the rebuild enhancing our shot at top 3 draft pick in 2020 and 2021. Look back,  the Browns just used the exact formula a few years back, look at their talent now in 2019. It appears to have worked.

[WeezyBengal]

(03-15-2019, 11:28 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think more fans think the FO is not all in for winning the Lombardi in 2019. Based on last 3 years and current talent level.  it appears MB and Katie feel they are a long way away, but I will say it is still early in off season.

Question becomes is can they transform the current roster into Super Bow champs in 2019 or 2020. If the FO thinks no, then in my opinion blow it up by trading AD, AJ, Geno, Dunlap and any player of great value around 30 or over.

This would put us at a disadvantage talent wise in 2019 and 2020. It would also give us tons of cap room and tons of draft picks in 2019 and 2020 for the rebuild.

In summary, I am saying do not tank on purpose to lose, play hard and learn every game how to win, but likely the lack of talent would dictate losses during the rebuild enhancing our shot at top 3 draft pick in 2020 and 2021. Look back,  the Browns just used the exact formula a few years back, look at their talent now in 2019. It appears to have worked.

Someone gets it. Thank you. 

[*PhilHos*]

(03-14-2019, 10:47 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: We need to tank the next two years so we can get Trevor lawerence. If we happen to get the number 2 pick in two years we can trade all our picks to get him

Why do you want the Bengals to lose games?

(03-14-2019, 11:30 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Tanking is a dumbass strategy.

Yep. Especially over the course of multiple seasons like SOME people are advocating for.

[Luvnit2]

(03-15-2019, 12:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Why do you want the Bengals to lose games?


Yep. Especially over the course of multiple seasons like SOME people are advocating for.

Many believe we are already destined to lose, I don't see fans wanting us to lose in 2019. So, the point is if the window has closed, why not get rid of the guys who are 30+ in age while they have some value to aid the rebuilding process with younger players and cap money.

The Browns just did it right before our eyes and some are saying they are Super Bowl bound in 2019 after being 0-16 two years ago.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-15-2019, 12:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Many believe we are already destined to lose, I don't see fans wanting us to lose in 2019. So, the point is if the window has closed, why not get rid of the guys who are 30+ in age while they have some value to aid the rebuilding process with younger players and cap money.

The Browns just did it right before our eyes and some are saying they are Super Bowl bound in 2019 after being 0-16 two years ago.

Until we get our own John Dorsey it doesn’t matter.

[Luvnit2]

(03-15-2019, 12:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Until we get our own John Dorsey it doesn’t matter.

I don't disagree, but for a different reason. MB and Katie seem to think fans are stupid and fall for dangling a carrot once in a while. That and they have no creativity it appears, they have a business model and stick to it. The issue is the business model has produced no playoff wins in almost 30 years.

Sadly, I can use the same argument of firing ML and staff and bringing in a new HC and staff.

[XenoMorph]

(03-15-2019, 11:28 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think more fans think the FO is not all in for winning the Lombardi in 2019. Based on last 3 years and current talent level.  it appears MB and Katie feel they are a long way away, but I will say it is still early in off season.

Question becomes is can they transform the current roster into Super Bow champs in 2019 or 2020. If the FO thinks no, then in my opinion blow it up by trading AD, AJ, Geno, Dunlap and any player of great value around 30 or over.

This would put us at a disadvantage talent wise in 2019 and 2020. It would also give us tons of cap room and tons of draft picks in 2019 and 2020 for the rebuild.

In summary, I am saying do not tank on purpose to lose, play hard and learn every game how to win, but likely the lack of talent would dictate losses during the rebuild enhancing our shot at top 3 draft pick in 2020 and 2021. Look back,  the Browns just used the exact formula a few years back, look at their talent now in 2019. It appears to have worked.

so where all the years before that accidental tanks by the browns?

I doubt Hue was trying to lose every game.

[Luvnit2]

(03-15-2019, 12:54 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: so where all the years before that accidental tanks by the browns?

I doubt Hue was trying to lose every game.

You need to read my posts, slow down and remove your emotion. I said play hard and try to win every game. But like HUe, his talent did not let him win very many games. They had huge cap savings (they were not paying anyone) so they were able to get better picks and then also had a ton of cash (cap space) to bring in studs like OBJ and were able to get their franchise QB via the draft.

[*PhilHos*]

(03-15-2019, 12:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Many believe we are already destined to lose, I don't see fans wanting us to lose in 2019. So, the point is if the window has closed, why not get rid of the guys who are 30+ in age while they have some value to aid the rebuilding process with younger players and cap money.

The Browns just did it right before our eyes and some are saying they are Super Bowl bound in 2019 after being 0-16 two years ago.

The Browns just won 1 game more than us this past season. And that was with a completely different coaching staff.

I get that the Browns' future currently looks bright, but how about we wait to see if they actually make the playoffs and win some playoff games before we tout their strategy of sucking forever to improve the team.

[McC]

(03-14-2019, 06:45 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Doesn’t matter how hey got him....they made a move. So you would be upset if the Bengals trade for an impact player?  Right now, this team is 3-4 years away from contention. So, as upsetting as the Hart deal was...it ultimately doesn’t really matter at this point. I would probably shop AJ to the highest bidder and get some value for him (Am I Right Fred). With the current Bengals philosophy, nailing the next 2-3 Drafts is our only hope.

No, of course I wouldn't have a problem with trading for an impact player.  Is that a question even worth asking?  But would Mack have gotten us to the playoffs?

Wasn't your argument about signing high priced FA's?   And then you point to Mack, who was not signed as a FA.  Please stop moving the goal posts.

Which one of this year's high priced FA's do you wish we'd have signed?

[McC]

(03-15-2019, 12:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You need to read my posts, slow down and remove your emotion. I said play hard and try to win every game. But like HUe, his talent did not let him win very many games. They had huge cap savings (they were not paying anyone) so they were able to get better picks and then also had a ton of cash (cap space) to bring in studs like OBJ and were able to get their franchise QB via the draft.

And it only took about fifteen years to turn it around overnight.  How many more losing seasons are you prepared to endure?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

If the team goes out and lays an egg, then fire sale. Personally, I'm wanting to see how much different philosophy in coaching effects the team.

[McC]

(03-15-2019, 11:37 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Someone gets it. Thank you. 

Oh.  So people are misinterpreting the title of the thread--"This team needs to tank."  Gotcha.

[Luvnit2]

(03-15-2019, 01:44 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The Browns just won 1 game more than us this past season. And that was with a completely different coaching staff.

I get that the Browns' future currently looks bright, but how about we wait to see if they actually make the playoffs and win some playoff games before we tout their strategy of sucking forever to improve the team.

I have no idea if their owner and GM had a plan to save cap dollars up and accumulate draft picks to make a bad team great. But, I stand by my impression that is what happened. I see them with a ceiling of 12 wins right now based on the roster, I see us with a ceiling of 7 or 8 wins right now.

My suggestion is go all in or retreat. I will not be happy if the team wins 7 or 8 games and misses the playoffs a 4th year in a row while watching their studs get a year older and a year less valuable for a trade. 

The point you are missing is I want to win right now, but no way I see it happening right now based on our moves to fix major weaknesses. So, I would rather lose this year with a great shot at winning something in 2020 or 2021. We will see, but another bad year in 2019 would be 4 in a row with an aging core (best players) at QB, WR, DT and DE.

We will see how 2019 shakes out, I would love to be wrong and eat crow about us winning this year.

[Luvnit2]

(03-15-2019, 02:36 PM)McC Wrote: And it only took about fifteen years to turn it around overnight.  How many more losing seasons are you prepared to endure?

2 year of losing if I see an aggressive plan of accumulating #1 picks and cap money. Zero if business as usual.

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2019, 02:40 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have no idea if their owner and GM had a plan to save cap dollars up and accumulate draft picks to make a bad team great. But, I stand by my impression that is what happened. I see them with a ceiling of 12 wins right now based on the roster, I see us with a ceiling of 7 or 8 wins right now.

That is because you are giving the Browns the benefit of the doubt for replacing one of the better OGs in the league with a guy who only played 14 snaps last year.  If the Bengals said they were upgrading our LB corps with Malik Jefferson you would laugh at them.  Plus no one mentions that they lost a Pro Bowl LB.

Every year I hear all the Browns love, and they haven't done shit yet.  When the Bengals went 12-4 and lost in the playoffs a bunch of people claimed it was no different from having a losing season, but when the Browns win 6 games with a 30th ranked defense suddenly they have "turned it around".

I actually like Mayfield, and they have added some good players, but right now they are ridiculously over hyped.

[Luvnit2]

(03-15-2019, 04:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is because you are giving the Browns the benefit of the doubt for replacing one of the better OGs in the league with a guy who only played 14 snaps last year.  If the Bengals said they were upgrading our LB corps with Malik Jefferson you would laugh at them.  Plus no one mentions that they lost a Pro Bowl LB.

Every year I hear all the Browns love, and they haven't done shit yet.  When the Bengals went 12-4 and lost in the playoffs a bunch of people claimed it was no different from having a losing season, but when the Browns win 6 games with a 30th ranked defense suddenly they have "turned it around".

I actually like Mayfield, and they have added some good players, but right now they are ridiculously over hyped.

All teams picked to be winners in preseason are over hyped simply because season has yet to play out.

Yes, Browns lost 2 key pieces in hybrid LB/safety Peppers and Zeitler. But, they added a bunch on both sides of the ball to go with a 2nd year QB who looked very good down the stretch.

I am not rooting for failure, I am just concerned we will be sitting here in December not happy we are not in the playoffs again and the big4 will be a year older.

Call me nuts, but I would feel a little better if we brought Eifert back for one more shot because he is a game changer when healthy

[Au165]

The premise is dumb, tanking doesn’t work in the NFL like other sports. If you believe it does someone explain to me why it took the Browns 20 years to appear relevant (haven’t really won anything yet). The issue with tanking in the NFL is that the most important position to draft is also one of the hardest to get right. Everyone can say Trevor Lawrence is sure fire but what if you don’t lose enough? Then what?

You have a solid roster now. You hope a strong rookie class improves from last year to this year. You hope you have better luck on injuries. You trust you made the right hire at coach to make the next jump. The reality is you have a capable QB, potentially top 5 offensive weapons, and a plethora of pass rushers. You can win with that combo in the NFL, it’s been done before.

[NKURyan]

(03-15-2019, 07:45 PM)Au165 Wrote: The premise is dumb, tanking doesn’t work in the NFL like other sports. If you believe it does someone explain to me why it took the Browns 20 years to appear relevant (haven’t really won anything yet). The issue with tanking in the NFL is that the most important position to draft is also one of the hardest to get right. Everyone can say Trevor Lawrence is sure fire but what if you don’t lose enough? Then what?

You have a solid roster now. You hope a strong rookie class improves from last year to this year. You hope you have better luck on injuries. You trust you made the right hire at coach to make the next jump. The reality is you have a capable QB, potentially top 5 offensive weapons, and a plethora of pass rushers. You can win with that combo in the NFL, it’s been done before.

Or what if, you know, they throw away the next two seasons as part of a grand plan to get Trevor Lawrence... and then he pulls an Elway/Eli?

Mission accomplished?

[Au165]

(03-15-2019, 08:06 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Or what if, you know, they throw away the next two seasons as part of a grand plan to get Trevor Lawrence... and then he pulls an Elway/Eli?

Mission accomplished?

There are just too many variables to think it’s “that easy”. There is a reason you don’t really see teams do it.