Transgender vets now have a VA clinic

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 01:09 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Because I never think ahead to dress like a girl, so I can.
I'm thinking the beard might give me away, too.

You could just claim to be a trans man and walk in there as you are, since that is where some people think trans men that still have a vagina should go. Just don't whip out your "hog".

[StLucieBengal]

(11-05-2015, 10:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I would wager all the money I will ever make in my life that not only have you encountered a trans woman you did not know was trans, but you considered them attractive.

Make a thread then. Post photos. We can make a game of it.

As for thinking they look good or not..... Post pics. I will be honest.

And I have been around them before .... I just told you in this thread I have one who lays tile for me.

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 02:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Make a thread then. Post photos. We can make a game of it.

As for thinking they look good or not..... Post pics. I will be honest.

And I have been around them before .... I just told you in this thread I have one who lays tile for me.

No. I am against things like that, in general. I don't even post in the BOTD threads and all of that for a reason. I don't like to rate or judge anyone on appearances. I made an exception for this one time to prove a point, but I'm not going to turn something like that into a game. It's disrespectful.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-06-2015, 02:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No. I am against things like that, in general. I don't even post in the BOTD threads and all of that for a reason. I don't like to rate or judge anyone on appearances. I made an exception for this one time to prove a point, but I'm not going to turn something like that into a game. It's disrespectful.

No one said we would rate them.   Lol.  

Hog or no hog .... Or even Boss Hogg for the bad ones ..... Haha

I think it would be fun actually.

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 02:14 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: No one said we would rate them. Lol.

Hog or no hog ..... Haha

I think it would be fun actually.

I'm sure you do. But it is still judging someone on appearances, and it's disrespectful IMHO. So I shall not take part in something like that.

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.quizrevolution.com/go/92701

Female/shemale quiz

[StLucieBengal]

(11-06-2015, 02:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm sure you do. But it is still judging someone on appearances, and it's disrespectful IMHO. So I shall not take part in something like that.

You guys judge me constantly.... So you are ok judging me but not actual people who are her....

[Rotobeast]

(11-06-2015, 01:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You could just claim to be a trans man and walk in there as you are, since that is where some people think trans men that still have a vagina should go. Just don't whip out your "hog".

I wouldn't whip it out in front of my daughter anyway.
I've used women's restrooms before.
However, they were single occupant with a lockable door.

(11-06-2015, 02:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:     I have one who lays tile for me.

"Lays tile"

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 02:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You guys judge me constantly.... So you are ok judging me but not actual people who are her....

I have issues with some of the things you say. I don't judge you for your appearance, for your faith, or anything else. I only take issue with what you say, something you have complete control over and actively do, on this message board and I make my commentary to you.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-06-2015, 02:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have issues with some of the things you say. I don't judge you for your appearance, for your faith, or anything else. I only take issue with what you say, something you have complete control over and actively do, on this message board and I make my commentary to you.

I don't judge any of these people for their looks either. I do question whether their choices are voluntary or not. What's wrong with me makng a commentary on that? Or is commentary only allowed if it co-signs what you think is acceptable?

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 03:08 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I don't judge any of these people for their looks either. I do question whether their choices are voluntary or not. What's wrong with me makng a commentary on that? Or is commentary only allowed if it co-signs what you think is acceptable?

Posting pictures on a thread and trying to decide whether or not they are trans is judging someone based on their looks. Please try to reserve your arguments with me to things I am actually saying.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-06-2015, 03:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Posting pictures on a thread and trying to decide whether or not they are trans is judging someone based on their looks. Please try to reserve your arguments with me to things I am actually saying.

I am talking about actual people here.... Feel free to show where I have judged anyone here on their looks or faith .

Now if I created a thread for female or shemale and used people's actual photo here then yes you would have a legitimate beef with me.

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 05:04 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I am talking about actual people here.... Feel free to show where I have judged anyone here on their looks or faith .

Now if I created a thread for female or shemale and used people's actual photo here then yes you would have a legitimate beef with me.

Correct me if I am wrong. You proposed a thread, or at least some posts, showing pictures of individuals and trying to determine whether or not they were trans. That is what I am inferring from this:

(11-06-2015, 02:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Make a thread then. Post photos. We can make a game of it.

In doing this, you are judging these photos based upon their appearance alone. My response was then:

(11-06-2015, 02:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No. I am against things like that, in general. I don't even post in the BOTD threads and all of that for a reason. I don't like to rate or judge anyone on appearances. I made an exception for this one time to prove a point, but I'm not going to turn something like that into a game. It's disrespectful.

And then you followed up with:

(11-06-2015, 02:14 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: No one said we would rate them.   Lol.  

Hog or no hog .... Or even Boss Hogg for the bad ones ..... Haha

I think it would be fun actually.

I put that phrase in bold because saying "for the bad one" is a dead giveaway of your intention to judge them based upon appearance.

This entire conversation is predicated on me finding it disrespectful to judge people on their appearance in this manner. If you are unable to understand that the actions you suggested would be doing just that, or unable to understand the difference between judging someone based upon their actions rather than their membership in a certain demographic or their appearance (or judging their appearance itself), then I don't know what to tell you. I don't know how else to explain it to you. If you don't feel it is disrespectful than that is all you. Enjoy yourself. I will not have any part in it, however.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-06-2015, 05:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong. You proposed a thread, or at least some posts, showing pictures of individuals and trying to determine whether or not they were trans. That is what I am inferring from this:


In doing this, you are judging these photos based upon their appearance alone. My response was then:

And then you followed up with:

I put that phrase in bold because saying "for the bad one" is a dead giveaway of your intention to judge them based upon appearance.

This entire conversation is predicated on me finding it disrespectful to judge people on their appearance in this manner. If you are unable to understand that the actions you suggested would be doing just that, or unable to understand the difference between judging someone based upon their actions rather than their membership in a certain demographic or their appearance (or judging their appearance itself), then I don't know what to tell you. I don't know how else to explain it to you. If you don't feel it is disrespectful than that is all you. Enjoy yourself. I will not have any part in it, however.

Then I guess we better delete all the judgemental comments made about Ben Carson, Donald Trump, Clinton, etc.  

No one here knows them.   And if the standard you want to set is that we don't make judgemental comments about anyone then we better stay consistent.    

And yes there are bad he/she's that dude from planet fitness is not the same as the model from Canada.

And I said Boss Hogg for the obvious play on your words. Hog or no hog.

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 05:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Then I guess we better delete all the judgemental comments made about Ben Carson, Donald Trump, Clinton, etc.  

No one here knows them.   And if the standard you want to set is that we don't make judgemental comments about anyone then we better stay consistent.    

A lot, admittedly not all, but a lot of the judgement being made towards them is based off of their comments, statements, agenda items, etc. These are judgements based on their actions and are not the same as judgements based on their membership of a demographic group or their appearance. Again, if you cannot comprehend the difference, I don't know what else to tell you.

(11-06-2015, 05:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: And yes there are bad he/she's that dude from planet fitness is not the same as the model from Canada.

You are correct that not all persons that identify as trans can "pass". But that is irrelevant as to whether or not is disrespectful to make a game of it.

(11-06-2015, 05:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: And I said Boss Hogg for the obvious play on your words. Hog or no hog.

Which my use of the term was actually a play on your words, as you were the one that I recall using it referring to "no hogs allowed in the girl's room" or something to that effect.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2015, 09:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's not as simple as you are putting it here. I've already explained about the living life as the gender they identify as. When you have people that constantly call them pretenders or see it as nothing important because they don't understand that this is who they are, how can they be taken seriously when being forced to use the restroom that does not match their gender? And not just a couple of times, but every single time they have to use a public restroom.

We're talking about a dude like this:


or this


I'm just curious as to why anyone things they would cause less of an issue going in the restroom for their "plumbing" than for their gender.

What would your opinion be if a post that contained photos of trans that do not look anything like the gender they are identifying with to illustrate their point.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-06-2015, 05:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: A lot, admittedly not all, but a lot of the judgement being made towards them is based off of their comments, statements, agenda items, etc. These are judgements based on their actions and are not the same as judgements based on their membership of a demographic group or their appearance. Again, if you cannot comprehend the difference, I don't know what else to tell you.


You are correct that not all persons that identify as trans can "pass". But that is irrelevant as to whether or not is disrespectful to make a game of it.


Which my use of the term was actually a play on your words, as you were the one that I recall using it referring to "no hogs allowed in the girl's room" or something to that effect.

1. Idc if we are judgemental on anyone that isn't here.   This is our group.  Outsiders are open season.  

2. Games are always fun

3.  I am glad to see "hog" is catching on.  Starting a trend I see.   Haha

I know you don't like some of these things that are said and you personally are not going after anyone or any group for the most part.   When I make the comparison you are not the one that is directed.   The only thing that aggravates me about you is the ever changing list of acceptable words for them.   And I know you are not personally  making the lists, just reporting them.   So really there should be no aggravation haha  
It would be nice for someone to admit how ridiculous the whole list is ....

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 05:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What would your opinion be if a post that contained photos of trans that do not look anything like the gender they are identifying with to illustrate their point.

I recognize that there are those that do not "pass". I could show plenty of pictures of that being the case. I've said before I am in favor of unisex restrooms. I am just pointing out the ridiculousness of the hard stance that the "plumbing" should dictate the restroom they use. Can we leave it at that? I know you would not be posting any images with the intent to ridicule in that instance but it oftentimes feels to me like posting images of those that are not as seamless in their integration can be demeaning and mocking. Even if they do not know it.

(11-06-2015, 05:39 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I know you don't like some of these things that are said and you personally are not going after anyone or any group for the most part.   When I make the comparison you are not the one that is directed.   The only thing that aggravates me about you is the ever changing list of acceptable words for them.   And I know you are not personally  making the lists, just reporting them.   So really there should be no aggravation haha  
It would be nice for someone to admit how ridiculous the whole list is ....

Honestly, for me it is not about the words used, but the intent behind them. I could be inferring something from your posts that is not there, but it often feels to me like your language is chosen in a manner intended to be derisive. It can come across as if you are belittling these people. You may not see it as such, but I can tell you that every person I know that is trans would take umbrage with your claim in the other thread that their identification as a gender that does not match their biological sex is a choice. These people struggle with this. Their reluctance to come to terms with it, the pressure from outside sources, causes depression among the majority of people that identify as such. Suicide rates are extremely high among the trans population because of this.

When you know people intimately (not sexually, you get my drift) that deal with this like Pat and I both do, it becomes something you look at in a different light. You've seen the struggle, you've seen the turmoil they have had to deal with while they came to terms with it. I don't wish that kind of emotion on anyone. The best thing any of us can do when we see something like this that there is so much ignorance (and this is not to use ignorance in a judgmental way, just the lack of knowledge) out there in regards to it, the only thing we can do is attempt to educate. Sometimes, because we may be close to the situation, emotions can run high and cause some issues. But really we are just trying to advocate respect.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-06-2015, 05:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I recognize that there are those that do not "pass". I could show plenty of pictures of that being the case. I've said before I am in favor of unisex restrooms. I am just pointing out the ridiculousness of the hard stance that the "plumbing" should dictate the restroom they use. Can we leave it at that? I know you would not be posting any images with the intent to ridicule in that instance but it oftentimes feels to me like posting images of those that are not as seamless in their integration can be demeaning and mocking. Even if they do not know it.


Honestly, for me it is not about the words used, but the intent behind them. I could be inferring something from your posts that is not there, but it often feels to me like your language is chosen in a manner intended to be derisive. It can come across as if you are belittling these people. You may not see it as such, but I can tell you that every person I know that is trans would take umbrage with your claim in the other thread that their identification as a gender that does not match their biological sex is a choice. These people struggle with this. Their reluctance to come to terms with it, the pressure from outside sources, causes depression among the majority of people that identify as such. Suicide rates are extremely high among the trans population because of this.

When you know people intimately (not sexually, you get my drift) that deal with this like Pat and I both do, it becomes something you look at in a different light. You've seen the struggle, you've seen the turmoil they have had to deal with while they came to terms with it. I don't wish that kind of emotion on anyone. The best thing any of us can do when we see something like this that there is so much ignorance (and this is not to use ignorance in a judgmental way, just the lack of knowledge) out there in regards to it, the only thing we can do is attempt to educate. Sometimes, because we may be close to the situation, emotions can run high and cause some issues. But really we are just trying to advocate respect.

I don't have a problem with any of these people personally. I just don't want them in the restrooms with my children. As far as adults go.... I don't agree with it still for the same reasons. Safety and I don't feel we should be making women uncomfortable to appease such a small group. Unisex restrooms are fine. That way if anyone wants the communal restroom expierence then they can have at it ...

As far as your reactions and others ..... I get that you are trying to educate. I just do not believe in anything you are talking about .... I think we all make choices conscience or unconscience. I don't begin to pretend that I understand how the mind works or how mental illness comes into play. But I do know that they have a choice to fully commit to a gender anytime they wish. And until they commit they are just living a lifestyle. A lifestyle you can change at any time.

Now I know we don't agree on this point. But I am sure we can both respect each other's opinions. I know I simplify things at times but usually for me it's Occam's razor that makes the most sense.

[BmorePat87]

Oh, hey, we're just going to spam multiple threads about one topic...








So those who opposed this anti-discrimination bill are ok with their daughters seeing this in their bathroom? Because according to "anatomy", he has to use the women's room.


Also, I'm still waiting on someone to post an incident of one of these laws leading to an attack. I don't think I have to explain how posting about a guy who got high in a store, took a life-size barbie's dress, and went into a bathroom in a town without one of these laws isn't an example... but I might have to.