Trump admin to end separation policy

[Griever]

(06-20-2018, 05:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What the left wants you to believe:

so kids werent being separated from their parents and put in cages?


you getting enough oxygen with your head buried that deep in the sand?

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2018, 02:40 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: To anyone that's bashing the separation of families, and maybe this has been mentioned, but should citizens who are in the country legally and in jail also be able have their families stay with them?

How many children of citizens in this country have both parents in prison? Making this comparison is fallacious because you are comparing people who are in this country with (most of the time) an established system of support already in existence with people who come here with nothing and no ties here. All that being said, I am also in fair of incarcerating fewer people for minor offenses in general and for shorter periods of time when they are, as well as an end to cash bail. So those sorts of things would mean solutions similar to what was done with previous administrations to avoid family separation.

[*bfine32*]

(06-21-2018, 08:42 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: How many children of citizens in this country have both parents in prison? Making this comparison is fallacious because you are comparing people who are in this country with (most of the time) an established system of support already in existence with people who come here with nothing and no ties here. All that being said, I am also in fair of incarcerating fewer people for minor offenses in general and for shorter periods of time when they are, as well as an end to cash bail. So those sorts of things would mean solutions similar to what was done with previous administrations to avoid family separation.

This sound almost like you are suggesting the illegal immigrant deserves preferential treatment over a US citizen. They children are treated the exact same in either situation and the person that committed a crime is responsible for the situation the child is in.

I just cannot wrap my head around the mentality of we must blame someone other than the law breaker for this situation.

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2018, 10:49 AM)bfine32 Wrote: This sound almost like you are suggesting the illegal immigrant deserves preferential treatment over a US citizen. They children are treated the exact same in either situation and the person that committed a crime is responsible for the situation the child is in.

I just cannot wrap my head around the mentality of we must blame someone other than the law breaker for this situation.

It sounds like that if that's what you want to infer from it.

[Bengalzona]

Recalling the Biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah.

[Griever]

so much for not separating families

He could have just directed Sessions to rescind the policy--this lets them keep that policy in place, knowing it will bump up against the Flores settlement in 20 days, at which point the courts will have to step in.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trumps-ploy

"The President says he’s signing an executive order to end family separations. The actual aim seems to be to pick a fight with the courts and allow separations to continue while blaming judges. According to The New York Times, the President will sign an executive order allowing children to be detained indefinitely with their parents. The problem is that that violates a 1997 consent decree saying that you can’t detain/imprison children for more than 20 days (technically what’s currently happening isn’t detention). It straight up violates that order. So what will almost inevitably happen is that a court will step in, say you can’t do that and then Trump will announce that the judge is forcing him to keep separating families."

In case you doubt that's the intent:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...re-you-have-it

"And there you have it. DOJ confirms that the White House knows the President’s executive order is in fact illegal on its face. What it does is set a 20 day countdown until Trump blames a court for forcing him to separate more families again.

JUST IN: Senior Justice Department official Gene Hamilton confirms the Flores settlement still controls, and that unless Congress or the court acts, the government can only detain families together for "up to 20 days."

— Steven Portnoy (@stevenportnoy) June 20, 2018"

[Bengalzona]

This is what asylum-seekers (not immigrants seeking illegal entry) face when they come to the border:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-asylum-seekers-meet-when-they-try-to-cross-legally

[*bfine32*]

(06-21-2018, 12:28 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: This is what asylum-seekers (not immigrants seeking illegal entry) face when they come to the border:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-asylum-seekers-meet-when-they-try-to-cross-legally

Hopefully a by-product of reducing illegal immigration will be streamlining the legal process. Or we could just kick the can down the road like we have the past 1/4 century or so.

[jj22]

(06-21-2018, 02:40 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: To anyone that's bashing the separation of families, and maybe this has been mentioned, but should citizens who are in the country legally and in jail also be able have their families stay with them?

It's a misdemeanor BFritz. People don't lose their kids for trespassing.

We start taking peoples kids due to misdemeanors and well, there will be far more Child Concentration camps around America.

[Bengalzona]

(06-21-2018, 01:24 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's a misdemeanor BFritz. People don't lose their kids for trespassing.

We start taking peoples kids due to misdemeanors and well, there will be far more Child Concentration camps around America.

"You were doing 36mph in a 35 zone. I'm gonna need to take your kids."

[Griever]

(06-21-2018, 01:24 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's a misdemeanor BFritz. People don't lose their kids for trespassing.

We start taking peoples kids due to misdemeanors and well, there will be far more Child Concentration camps around America.

[Arturo Bandini]

(06-20-2018, 03:31 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Out of curiosity, do you have something against Melania?

No.

If she didn't critic this publicly, it won't had been turned back.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-21-2018, 02:52 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: No.

If she didn't critic this publicly, it won't had been turned back.

[Bengalzona]

(06-21-2018, 02:52 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: No.

If she didn't critic this publicly, it won't had been turned back.

She won a ton of respect from me for taking that stance.

[*bfine32*]

(06-21-2018, 01:24 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's a misdemeanor BFritz. People don't lose their kids for trespassing.

We start taking peoples kids due to misdemeanors and well, there will be far more Child Concentration camps around America.

But don't they demand you leave the property if cited for trespassing? If you refused, then you might get locked up.


As to the bigger story it's just more of the same from the left. They want to paint the picture that every immigrant that enters this country illegally with a child(s) is that parent's loving parent. When the case is many are human traffickers that can lead that child into a live of forced prostitution or gang activity to pay the toll for bringing them across.

Folks are willing to turn a blind eye to this and accept a policy in which 80% never show up in their day in court, because we have the audacity, to lock someone up that broke the law and place their children in shelters where they are provided food, shelter, medical care, and recreational activities.

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2018, 03:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks are willing to turn a blind eye to this and accept a policy in which 80% never show up in their day in court, because we have the audacity, to lock someone up that broke the law and place their children in shelters where they are provided food, shelter, medical care, and recreational activities.

It's not like there were any alternatives to help with this problem that were being tried out before Trump took office and then were shuttered because of budget cuts.

I've been saying all along that this problem has other potential solutions that could be resolved with increased resources, solutions that are more humane than what is currently being done and could be more effective at enforcing the law.

[*bfine32*]

(06-21-2018, 06:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:
It's not like there were any alternatives to help with this problem that were being tried out before Trump took office and then were shuttered because of budget cuts.

I've been saying all along that this problem has other potential solutions that could be resolved with increased resources, solutions that are more humane than what is currently being done and could be more effective at enforcing the law.

And I hope the solution is to keep the family together in detention or on the other side of the border. Catch and release is not working. We are being as humane as possible. Taking a child out of the middle of the desert often times with not food, water, and shelter and we are feeding, hydrating, and sheltering while their parent awaiting his/her date in court.

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2018, 07:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And I hope the solution is to keep the family together in detention or on the other side of the border. Catch and release is not working. We are being as humane as possible. Taking a child out of the middle of the desert often times with not food, water, and shelter and we are feeding, hydrating, and sheltering while their parent awaiting his/her date in court.

This statement just ignores the information out there, including what was at the link in the post you responded to.

[*bfine32*]

(06-21-2018, 07:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This statement just ignores the information out there, including what was at the link in the post you responded to.

Yeah, I should have said realistically as humane as we can be to all, just not a special popultion.

Speaking of ignoring, You seemed to have no comment on the rest of the thread.

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2018, 08:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, I should have said realistically as humane as we can be to all, just not a special popultion.

Speaking of ignoring, You seemed to have no comment on the rest of the thread.

Good point, maybe we should eliminate cash bail, as well, and come up with alternative solutions for our citizens to navigate the judicial process as well.

Also, I often don't go back to read and respond to every post after I've been away fro a few hours.