Trump admin to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa

[CageTheBengal]

Just when I thought I couldn't despise the Trump family more they still find a way...

Now Don Jr can go on more canned hunts and pay big money to stand over a dead animal and pretend he actually did something. He's a big tough man ya know.

Quote: The Trump administration plans to allow hunters to import trophies of elephants they killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia back to the United States, reversing a ban put in place by the Obama administration in 2014, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service official confirmed to ABC News today.

Even though elephants are listed as endangered under the Endangered Species Act, a provision in the act allows the government to give permits to import these trophies if there is evidence that the hunting actually benefits conservation for that species. The official said they have new information from officials in Zimbabwe and Zambia to support reversing the ban to allow trophy hunting permits.

"Legal, well-regulated sport hunting as part of a sound management program can benefit the conservation of certain species by providing incentives to local communities to conserve the species and by putting much-needed revenue back into conservation," a Fish and Wildlife spokesperson said in a statement.

This change only applies to elephants in those two countries but questions about using game hunting to generate money for conservation efforts also came up during the controversy after Cecil the lion was killed in Zimbabwe in 2015.

The government has not actually announced this policy change yet but it was reportedly announced at a wildlife forum in South Africa this week, according to Safari Club International, which filed a lawsuit to block the 2014 ban.

It's unclear how the current political situation in Zimbabwe could affect this decision, but a blog post from the president of the Humane Society of the United States points out that poaching has been a problem in Zimbabwe over the years and that the hunting industry there faces corruption issues.

A notice regarding this change will be posted in the Federal Register on Friday with more specifics on what new information justifies the changes.

The finding applies to elephants hunted in Zimbabwe on or after January 21, 2016, and on or before December 31, 2018, and elephants hunted in Zambia during 2016, 2017 and 2018 for applications that meet all other applicable permitting requirements, according to Fish and Wildlife spokesperson.

Savanna elephant populations declined by 30 percent across 18 countries in Africa from 2007 to 2014, according to the Great Elephant Census published last year, which put their remaining numbers at just over 350,000.

The elephant population declined 6 percent overall in Zimbabwe but dropped by 74 percent within one specific region. Elephants saw "substantial declines along the Zambezi River," in Zambia while other areas of that country were stable, according to the census. The Fish and Wildlife Service has been talking with wildlife officials in Zimbabwe since the ban was announced in 2014. Since then, Zimbabwe officials have stepped up efforts to combat poaching, established a system to report financial benefit from American hunters, and provided more information on how officials establish hunting quotas, according to the text of the federal register notice that will be posted Friday.

The census reported around 82,000 elephants in Zimbabwe. Wildlife officials set annual quotas limiting hunting there to 500 elephants in different areas.

Elephant hunting has been banned in Zambia several times over the years due to declining population size but was re-established in 2015 after surveys found a larger population in some areas. Zambia is home to some 22,000 elephants, according to the census.

Tourists can hunt elephants on private game ranches or specified areas in Zambia, many of which are on the outskirts of national parks. Zambian officials also carry out anti-poaching efforts and manage elephant hunting through permits and quotas, according to the Federal Register notice. In 2016, 30 elephants were allowed to be killed there as trophies but the government reported that only 12 males were killed, according to the notice.

Fees paid by hunters are also used to fund the country's conservation efforts.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-admin-reverse-ban-elephant-trophies-africa/story?id=51178663&cid=social_twitter_abcn

[Au165]

Never understood why people enjoyed hunting for sport. Maybe if they hunted with a sword or something, but the idea you can be hundreds of feet away from something and point a gun at it to "win" seems like a grown adult playing against first graders in basketball....what's the point.

[GMDino]

(11-16-2017, 12:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: Never understood why people enjoyed hunting for sport. Maybe if they hunted with a sword or something, but the idea you can be hundreds of feet away from something and point a gun at it to "win" seems like a grown adult playing against first graders in basketball....what's the point.

Over compensation.

[Millhouse]

Yeah this is pretty sad to hear. And to be honest, of all the stuff that has happened so far, this to me is one of the worst things to date they have done. It just shows the kind of humans they are. And anyone that supports this just shows how little of a heart he or she has. Just despicable.

[Millhouse]

(11-16-2017, 12:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: Never understood why people enjoyed hunting for sport. Maybe if they hunted with a sword or something, but the idea you can be hundreds of feet away from something and point a gun at it to "win" seems like a grown adult playing against first graders in basketball....what's the point.

Hunting deer or other animals for population control is one thing. 

Hunting for animals such as elephants or other big 'safari' game is just twisted imo. I have a distant relative who was once a vp of BP, and paid 10k for a licence to hunt 1 polar bear. He got his bear, and kept the skin. But I never can give him any respect for that, regardless of how much he accomplished in life.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-16-2017, 12:11 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Just when I thought I couldn't despise the Trump family more they still find a way...

Now Don Jr can go on more canned hunts and pay big money to stand over a dead animal and pretend he actually did something. He's a big tough man ya know.




http://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-admin-reverse-ban-elephant-trophies-africa/story?id=51178663&cid=social_twitter_abcn

From your article:

Quote:Even though elephants are listed as endangered under the Endangered Species Act, a provision in the act allows the government to give permits to import these trophies if there is evidence that the hunting actually benefits conservation for that species. The official said they have new information from officials in Zimbabwe and Zambia to support reversing the ban to allow trophy hunting permits.

Now, I'm not sure how hunting an animal can benefit the conservation of said animal, but assuming it does, how is this a bad thing? Are you just against hunting? Or is this the "Donald Trump sucks so everything he does sucks" type of thing?

[Arturo Bandini]

Terrible, just terrible.

[CKwi88]

Remember folks, regulation is bad. Just ask the rhinos.

[CageTheBengal]

(11-16-2017, 02:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: From your article:


Now, I'm not sure how hunting an animal can benefit the conservation of said animal, but assuming it does, how is this a bad thing? Are you just against hunting? Or is this the "Donald Trump sucks so everything he does sucks" type of thing?

I think unless you are talking about survival or population control it's selfish to take another creatures life for amusement. Just to basically stroke your own ego and make something feel inferior. The whole trophy aspect supports this. Why not just parade it's head around on a pike and plant in your front yard? Why would anybody be proud of killing an elephant?
I suppose this is how it conserves them...

"Legal, well-regulated sport hunting as part of a sound management program can benefit the conservation of certain species by providing incentives to local communities to conserve the species and by putting much-needed revenue back into conservation," a Fish and Wildlife spokesperson said in a statement.

So I guess they are saying you sacrifice a few to wealthy people and they get some cash for the rest of the elephants. It seems more like the opportunity open to them rather than an ideal solution.

It also bothers me because Don Jrs hunting adventures are well documented and I'm of the camp that Trump is a self centered man who's ambitions don't go past his own interests. So yeah I can't stand Trump but that didn't sway my opinion and I'd feel the same regardless.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-16-2017, 02:52 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I think unless you are talking about survival or population control it's selfish to take another creatures life for amusement. Just to basically stroke your own ego and make something feel inferior. The whole trophy aspect supports this. Why not just parade it's head around on a pike and plant in your front yard? Why would anybody be proud of killing an elephant? 

I can understand why people are against hunting (I'm neither in favor of it nor against it), but if this particular regulation actually HELPS the environment (and, again, I'm still not sure how it does), I don't see why it's a bad thing.

(11-16-2017, 02:52 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I suppose this is how it conserves them...

"Legal, well-regulated sport hunting as part of a sound management program can benefit the conservation of certain species by providing incentives to local communities to conserve the species and by putting much-needed revenue back into conservation," a Fish and Wildlife spokesperson said in a statement.

So I guess they are saying you sacrifice a few to wealthy people and they get some cash for the rest of the elephants. It seems more like the opportunity open to them rather than an ideal solution.

Yeah, I still don't see how it helps. To me, it'd be like making crack legal in an attempt to make fewer people become addicted to cocaine.

(11-16-2017, 02:52 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: It also bothers me because Don Jrs hunting adventures are well documented and I'm of the camp that Trump is a self centered man who's ambitions don't go past his own interests. So yeah I can't stand Trump but that didn't sway my opinion and I'd feel the same regardless.

Well, it's not for me to say if it did or not for you, but I can't help feel that most of those who are upset at Trump for this are more because Trump did it.

[hollodero]

(11-16-2017, 02:52 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: "Legal, well-regulated sport hunting as part of a sound management program can benefit the conservation of certain species by providing incentives to local communities to conserve the species and by putting much-needed revenue back into conservation," a Fish and Wildlife spokesperson said in a statement.

Wow.
We shoot down Elephants to provide incentives to local communities to conserve the species we threaten. We have to shoot elephants to raise awareness of elephant endangerment! Yeah that's clearly the good guys.

[*bfine32*]

(11-16-2017, 03:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I can understand why people are against hunting (I'm neither in favor of it nor against it), but if this particular regulation actually HELPS the environment (and, again, I'm still not sure how it does), I don't see why it's a bad thing.

I think the purpose it to reduce illegal poaching for the tusks. I've read/seen reports of the inhumane nature in which these tusks are removed from elephants and often done while the elephant is still alive and then left to die. The intent is to incentivize local communities to an extend where it is in their best interest not to inhumanely poach elephants, but to preserve them for regulated hunting.

WTS, I abhor the act of recreational hunting.  

But I do agree with the assertion that the message has been more about the sender instead of the content lately.

[NATI BENGALS]

Apparently if people pay big bucks to hunt something the money can go to conserving the species.

The concept is the old diseased or unable to procreate animals are selected for the hunt. They make big money from killing off the animal that isnt going to help the long term outlook of the species and the money goes to helping the animals who have a chance at extending a species survival.

This wasnt for that. It already exsists. This is so Don Jr can decorate with ivory and elephant tails.

[*jason*]

(11-16-2017, 03:39 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Apparently if people pay big bucks to hunt something the money can go to conserving the species.

The concept is the old diseased or unable to procreate animals are selected for the hunt. They make big money from killing off the animal that isnt going to help the long term outlook of the species and the money goes to helping the animals who have a chance at extending a species survival.

This wasnt for that. It already exsists. This is so Don Jr can decorate with ivory and elephant tails.

Decorate what? His cell?

Sorry. That was just low hanging fruit.

[BengalHawk62]

I know we're supposed to try to understand how others think. But I can't relate on any level to someone who looks at an elephant and thinks, "I need to kill one of those."


Like those sick f***s the other day who tried to start those elephants on fire.  There's a special place in hell for them.

[GMDino]

And it's really beyond the killing.  The rule kept these dbags from bringing a trophy back to the US.  If they want to blow their wad just kill and old/sick animal more power to 'em.  But there's no need to bring back anything for their altruistic endeavour.

[Belsnickel]

(11-16-2017, 03:39 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Apparently if people pay big bucks to hunt something the money can go to conserving the species.

The concept is the old diseased or unable to procreate animals are selected for the hunt. They make big money from killing off the animal that isnt going to help the long term outlook of the species and the money goes to helping the animals who have a chance at extending a species survival.

This wasnt for that. It already exsists. This is so Don Jr can decorate with ivory and elephant tails.

This is what I gleaned from the article as well as what I know from other sources. Hunting for conservation is nothing new, we do it here in the states in various ways. I do think, though, that there should be a reason for the animal to be killed. Whether it be to eat, to study, or whatever, the body should not go to waste.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-16-2017, 03:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I can understand why people are against hunting (I'm neither in favor of it nor against it), but if this particular regulation actually HELPS the environment (and, again, I'm still not sure how it does), I don't see why it's a bad thing.

Yeah, I still don't see how it helps. To me, it'd be like making crack legal in an attempt to make fewer people become addicted to cocaine.

Well, it's not for me to say if it did or not for you, but I can't help feel that most of those who are upset at Trump for this are more because Trump did it.

Let's assume thes hunts do help the environment.

This change doesn't permit the hunters to kill the elephants for the benefit of the environment. It allows the hunters to bring back the ivory to decorate their man cave.

[Benton]

(11-16-2017, 12:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: Never understood why people enjoyed hunting for sport. Maybe if they hunted with a sword or something, but the idea you can be hundreds of feet away from something and point a gun at it to "win" seems like a grown adult playing against first graders in basketball....what's the point.

I used to know a guy who would go boar hunting with a spear.

Other guys would use dog packs to corner them, then shoot the boar. Not this guy. Shield and spear, like some kind of cave man. He'd antagonize them till they charged, plant the shield and then stab over the top. Crazy to watch.

[BigPapaKain]

(11-17-2017, 01:00 AM)Benton Wrote: I used to know a guy who would go boar hunting with a spear.

Other guys would use dog packs to corner them, then shoot the boar. Not this guy. Shield and spear, like some kind of cave man. He'd antagonize them till they charged, plant the shield and then stab over the top. Crazy to watch.

My dad had a buddy who was planning to go bow hunting for grizzly bears.

Never heard how that went. Now that I think about it, I haven't talked to the guy since then.

That...that can't be good.