Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity'

[GMDino]

(07-27-2017, 09:09 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So we have:

Daily Signal - a heavily biased conservative news source
Daily Wire - a heavily biased conservative "news" source
Fox News - a heavily biased conservative network that parades opinion as news
American College of Pediatricians - a professional group of conservative pediatricians created solely to fight against the idea that homosexuality and gender non-conformity are not mental illnesses to be treated.

If you throw in a free space you have bullshit bingo.

Wait, were we suppose to take that seriously?

I thought this was a thread for crackpot medical advice!

[BmorePat87]

According to RAND's study on the inclusion of trans service members, their medical costs will range from $2-8.4 million.

Conservative estimates for the cost for a Trump Mar-a-Lago trip? $2m per, putting us at an average of $54m a year that we will spend on trips to Mar-a-Lago.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

Are we sure that it isn't conservative ideology that leads to child abuse? Authoritarian ideology, including religious conservatism, endorses absolute obedience to authority and the physical punishment of children, after all.

[Griever]

if transgenders are so combat ready that women should be scared of being alone with them in the bathroom, i think they are fit for combat duty if they want to serve in the military

[CKwi88]

It's 2017, this shouldn't even be an issue.

However, Trump gets to declare a twofold victory here. He gets to act like he got something done, which pleases his base, and he also sends a big f*** you to SJWs which also pleases his base.

This in no way, shape or form improves our military.

This saves a neglible amount of money.

This is just a distraction so Trump can act like he's done something so he can get pats on the back from the most conservative of his base.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-27-2017, 09:20 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: According to RAND's study on the inclusion of trans service members, their medical costs will range from $2-8.4 million.

Conservative estimates for the cost for a Trump Mar-a-Lago trip? $2m per, putting us at an average of $54m a year that we will spend on trips to Mar-a-Lago.

Is there a breakdown of what they believe the medical costs would include? Is it your typical primary care, preventative care, pre and post deployment care, etc? Or is this gender reassignment surgery, hormone therapy, etc that would be specific to transgender service members?

The medical costs to me are a non-issue because the military doesn't pay for any type of medical care a person wants. Like breast augmentation.

I don't know what the courts decided with the Manning case, but I believe the military could handle reassignment surgery the same as they do breast augmentation or nose jobs-if you want it you pay for it yourself.

[CageTheBengal]

I'm still scratching my head about this.

I mean I get Trump doesn't give a rats ass about anything except his own needs and wants but this just makes him look like a grade A d-bag. Another example of how Trump is too feeble minded to respect the military.

Insulting McCain a PoW, insulting the Khan family, dodging the military himself and now this.

Dude is trash.

[CageTheBengal]

Not reading the Daily Wire.

It all starts with a respectable source.

[BmorePat87]

(07-27-2017, 10:27 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Is there a breakdown of what they believe the medical costs would include? Is it your typical primary care, preventative care, pre and post deployment care, etc?  Or is this gender reassignment surgery, hormone therapy, etc that would be specific to transgender service members?

The medical costs to me are a non-issue because the military doesn't pay for any type of medical care a person wants. Like breast augmentation.

I don't know what the courts decided with the Manning case, but I believe the military could handle reassignment surgery the same as they do breast augmentation or nose jobs-if you want it you pay for it yourself.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-claims-transgender-service-members-cost-too-much-true-n786891


"additional costs", so transition related hormones and surgery. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-27-2017, 09:09 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So we have:

Daily Signal - a heavily biased conservative news source
Daily Wire - a heavily biased conservative "news" source
Fox News - a heavily biased conservative network that parades opinion as news
American College of Pediatricians - a professional group of conservative pediatricians created solely to fight against the idea that homosexuality and gender non-conformity are not mental illnesses to be treated.

If you throw in a free space you have bullshit bingo.

To call the ACP a "professional" organization is a disservice to legitimate professional organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics.

The AAP is the professional organization for pediatricians on par with the American Medical Association or AMA.

The ACP is a splinter group of religious conservatives pushing a religious conservative political agenda. It is basically a club masquerading as the AAP.

[Aquapod770]

My question is when will the military lift the ban on obese people.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-27-2017, 10:36 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-claims-transgender-service-members-cost-too-much-true-n786891


"additional costs", so transition related hormones and surgery. 

I wonder what BS story Trump believed this time? It is ironic he complains of false news, but he either falls prey to false news or invents false news. This story is one of those two.

It's a sad day when the Presidency of the US has sunk so low that a f'n tweet masquerades as policy. WTF.

[GMDino]

(07-27-2017, 10:47 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: My question is when will the military lift the ban on obese people.  

Never...I hope.  

Not that it would affect me.

[GMDino]

(07-27-2017, 10:51 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I wonder what BS story Trump believed this time?  It is ironic he complains of false news, but he either falls prey to false news or invents false news. This story is one of those two.

It's a sad day when the Presidency of the US has sunk so low that a f'n tweet masquerades as policy. WTF.

Funny you should ask.

http://www.salon.com/2017/07/26/is-trumps-transgender-ban-linked-to-tucker-carlsons-spurious-claims-on-child-abuse/

Quote:Is Trump’s transgender ban linked to Tucker Carlson’s spurious claims on child abuse?

Was the president's surprise announcement spurred by Fox News host with a long history of transphobia?


Hours after Trump’s announcement on Twitter Wednesday morning, Fox News host Tucker Carlson was invited to the White House to interview Vice President Mike Pence, a staunch social conservative. Presumably this interview, to air Wednesday evening on Carlson’s show, will include a discussion of Trump’s latest controversial decision, which has even been criticized by Republicans on Capitol Hill.


But any discussion between Carlson and Pence about the transgender ban in the military is more than a play to advance the White House’s narrative and agenda. It’s also an attempt to legitimize a discriminatory and transphobic ideology.

Quote:[/url]

 Follow
Vice President Pence 

@VP
Looking forward to chatting with @TuckerCarlson about @POTUS' wins these first six months in office.
1:13 PM - Jul 26, 2017

Just days before being hosted by the White House, Carlson was on Fox News’ airwaves openly linking the transgender community to “child abuse.” Hosting the president of the anti-LGBTQ group American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) — not to be confused with the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), a mainstream professional group — Carlson quoted an article by his guest, Dr. Michelle Cretella, that featured this explosive charge: “Transgender ideology has infiltrated my field and produced large-scale child abuse.” 

Cretella told Carlson and his Fox News viewers that transgender adolescents are “being put on the puberty blockers which essentially castrates them chemically, followed by surgical mutilation later on. This is child abuse; it’s not health care.” That argument was echoed in a column by Cretella published in the Heritage Foundation’s Daily Signal:

Quote:Today’s institutions that promote transition affirmation are pushing children to impersonate the opposite sex, sending many of them down the path of puberty blockers, sterilization, the removal of healthy body parts, and untold psychological damage. These harms constitute nothing less than institutionalized child abuse.

(Notably, the Heritage Foundation was one of the first conservative groups to openly praise Trump’s transgender military ban on Wednesday.)

Carlson has increasingly used his prime-time Fox show to attack transgender military personnel. Earlier this month, he described the Obama administration policy allowing trans service members as “a massive social program designed to affirm different communities because they put political pressure on the White House.”


Pence’s appearance on Carlson’s show on Wednesday evening, as the White House rolls out its controversial ban without the explicit backing of the Pentagon, strongly suggests that Trump is using trans lives to score cheap political points. (So much for his campaign pitch that he would be the best president for the LGBT community.)

Perversely, a White House official boasted to Time’s Zeke Miller on Wednesday that the administration “is thrilled media is focusing on [the] transgender service member issue.” Another administration official was more explicit about the politics behind the decision in comments to Axios. “This forces Democrats in Rust Belt states like Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, to take complete ownership of this issue,” the official said. “How will the blue-collar voters in these states respond when senators up for re-election in 2018 like Debbie Stabenow are forced to make their opposition to this a key plank of their campaigns?”

And while Republicans in Congress may not be thrilled about the decision, none have actually tried to resist the change. On the other hand, Trump’s base of evangelical Christians has rejoiced at the news. The anti-LGBT group Liberty Counsel announced on Wednesday that its leader had met with White House officials and others about the need to reverse the Obama policy:

Quote:Last Friday, Jonathan Alexandre, Director of Public Policy at Liberty Counsel, met with White House officials and discussed this issue, stressing the importance of the President’s power to direct his generals to prioritize unit cohesion and military readiness rather than sacrificing them to the demands of the transgender lobby.

Tony Perkins, a frequent Fox News guest and the president of the Family Research Council, has also cheered the ban. His group has run an intensive campaign this summer against the decision to allow transgender members to serve openly.

Quote:

[url=https://twitter.com/FRCAction] Follow
FRCAction @FRCAction
We're running this ad in NY-23 to encourage people to tell @RepTomReed how they want the military to spend their tax $. Call 202-225-3161.
10:00 AM - Jul 20, 2017

Pence’s appearance on Carlson’s show would seem to serve as the full-circle completion of this relationship between the evangelical lobby, the White House and Fox News to push civil rights backwards for transgender Americans.

[CageTheBengal]

(07-27-2017, 11:19 AM)GMDino Wrote: Funny you should ask.

http://www.salon.com/2017/07/26/is-trumps-transgender-ban-linked-to-tucker-carlsons-spurious-claims-on-child-abuse/

I like how they condensed it down to a meme for us. My brain was starting to hurt.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-27-2017, 11:19 AM)GMDino Wrote: Funny you should ask.

http://www.salon.com/2017/07/26/is-trumps-transgender-ban-linked-to-tucker-carlsons-spurious-claims-on-child-abuse/

Massive social program? The RAND study estimated approximately 8000 transgender service members for all branches both active duty and reserve. That's a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm sorry, but every time someone mentions "Tucker" discussing transgender people it makes me snicker a little because I'm immature. Makes me picture Tucker screaming, "IT PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET!"

[Millhouse]

This is one aspect of this tweet decision I don't like at all. Apparently the Joint Chiefs of Staff didn't know this was going to happen, and were not part of the decision process. Now I said yesterday I was ok but I wouldnt have done it. After looking over everything in the last two days, I do change my mind, as I am not ok with this decision. I do see it as nothing more than a political ploy to many of those that voted for him, nothing more nor less.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/trump-military-transgender-ban-joint-chiefs/index.html

[Belsnickel]

(07-27-2017, 01:44 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This is one aspect of this tweet decision I don't like at all. Apparently the Joint Chiefs of Staff didn't know this was going to happen, and were not part of the decision process. Now I said yesterday I was ok but I wouldnt have done it. After looking over everything in the last two days, I do change my mind, as I am not ok with this decision. I do see it as nothing more than a political ploy to many of those that voted for him, nothing more nor less.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/trump-military-transgender-ban-joint-chiefs/index.html

But, wait, didn't he "consult his generals and military experts?" That's the thing that gets me with this. The JCS are his generals and military experts, yet they didn't know.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-27-2017, 01:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: But, wait, didn't he "consult his generals and military experts?" That's the thing that gets me with this. The JCS are his generals and military experts, yet they didn't know.

Don't take him so literally.

[GMDino]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/trump-transgender-military-ban-no-modification-241029?cmpid=sf

Quote:There will be “no modifications” to the military’s transgender policy as a result of President Donald Trump’s declared ban on transgender men and women on Twitter, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs said in a message to top military officers on Thursday -- the latest sign of the disarray following the commander-in-chief's abrupt announcement.



Marine Gen. Joe Dunford also wrote in the message, which was sent to the chiefs of the military branches and senior enlisted leaders, that the military will continue to “treat all of our personnel with respect.”

“I know there are questions about yesterday's announcement on the transgender policy by the President,” Dunford wrote in the internal communication, a copy of which was provided to POLITICO. “There will be no modifications to the current policy until the President's direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidance.”


“In the meantime, we will continue to treat all of our personnel with respect. As importantly, given the current fight and the challenges we face, we will all remain focused on accomplishing our assigned missions,” he continued.


The president said Wednesday in a series of three tweets that transgender troops would no longer be allowed to serve in any capacity, sparking questions about what that would mean for the thousands currently in uniform and whether it constitutes an official policy change.


The announcement also sparked fierce criticism from lawmakers in both parties, while advocacy groups immediately threatened to take the president to court to overturn any ban.

In an appearance at the National Press Club, Gen. Mark Milley, the Army chief of staff, said later Thursday that Dunford is “exactly right” and that the military will work through new guidance when it gets a formal directive from the White House through normal channels.


“We grow up and learn to obey the chain of command, and my chain of command is secretary of the Army, secretary of Defense and the president,” Milley said. “We will work through the implementation guidance when we get it…To my knowledge, the Department of Defense, Secretary Mattis has not received written directives yet.”


Milley also doubled down on Dunford’s message that every service member – “bar none” – should and will always be treated with dignity and respect.


Only a formal directive through the chain of command would lead to a real policy change, said Tobias Wolff, a professor at University of Pennsylvania Law School.


He said that Dunford’s statement makes it clear that the Pentagon does not make major changes to its policy because of a tweet – “and he was right to do so.”


“The chairman of the joint chiefs is respecting the rule of law and the role of the secretary of defense, and he is protecting commanders in the field from having good order and discipline undermined,” Wolff said. “General Dunford should never have been put in this position. It is a reflection of the crisis we now face with this increasingly unstable and reckless individual occupying the presidency.”

Dru Brenner-Beck, a retired Army judge advocate general and president of the National Institute for Military Justice, told POLITICO that under normal procedure the president would issue an executive order instructing the Pentagon to go about changing the department’s personnel policy — but only after Defense Department officials coordinated with various parts of the military and weighed in on the proposed changes in the draft order.


Brenner-Beck said its even legally questionable whether a declaration from the president’s personal social media account is enough to launch the process of rewriting Pentagon regulations, calling it “a whole new frontier."


“A tweet doesn’t really give you policy,” she said. “How do you implement a tweet? Usually you would have some kind of an actual policy document that comes down.”


A Defense Department official, speaking on the condition they not be named, said Thursday that the Pentagon is scrambling to coordinate with the White House for guidance on the way forward, noting that there is an urgent need to explain to the troops what it means.


Transgender troops -- which by some estimates number as high as 15,000 and as few as 1,300 -- have been allowed to serve openly since June of 2016. The Pentagon has been studying ways to implement the decision for new recruits -- including questions about housing and medical care.


Defense Secretary Jim Mattis last month ordered that review be extended another six months.

The Pentagon's policy changes have not been without controversy. House Republicans, as part of defense spending legislation now under consideration, have sought to prohibit the Pentagon from paying for troops' gender transition surgery.


But virtually no one has suggested drumming them out of the military altogether.



"Everyone was confused and I think there are still confused," said Radha Iyengar, a senior economist at the government-funded Rand Corporation, who authored a recent study for the pentagon on the medical costs associated with transgender service members. "I think the Joint Chiefs statement helps that but we are waiting to see what the actual policy is."

One thing to remember is that Trump is exactly what he always is:  A con artist.  A liar.  A man who values appearance over substance.

Millions upon millions of people do not care because they think he's a "straight shooter" who cares about them.