Trump challenges the 14th Amendment

[BmorePat87]

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-trump-says-14th-amendment-is-127077752761.html

I'm not going to use the "Trump says 14th amendment is unconstitutional" title that many news outlets have. I didn't actually see him say that.

Trump challenged whether or not the 14th amendment gives citizenship to the children of illegal aliens in the United States while being interviewed by O'Reilly.

Quote:All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside

There's a camp who says that "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means that the parents have to be subject to US laws and not foreign citizens. Conventional understanding is that "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" would apply to illegal immigrants as they are still subject to US laws when they come here. It would not apply to the children born to diplomats as they are not subject to our laws in the same sense.

Trump thinks his interpretation will be upheld in court. Very interesting.

[GMDino]

(08-19-2015, 02:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-trump-says-14th-amendment-is-127077752761.html

I'm not going to use the "Trump says 14th amendment is unconstitutional" title that many news outlets have. I didn't actually see him say that.

Trump challenged whether or not the 14th amendment gives citizenship to the children of illegal aliens in the United States while being interviewed by O'Reilly.


There's a camp who says that "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means that the parents have to be subject to US laws and not foreign citizens. Conventional understanding is that "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" would apply to illegal immigrants as they are still subject to US laws when they come here. It would not apply to the children born to diplomats as they are not subject to our laws in the same sense.

Trump thinks his interpretation will be upheld in court. Very interesting.

That because Trump is smarter than anyone and everyone ever and everyone else is just a loser.

[BFritz21]

I'm actually liking Trump on this issue and agree that the Amendment is wrong.

The Amendment was passed in the 1800s in an attempt to give the newly freed former-slaves citizenship, not so that people come here illegally, have babies, and gain all of the benefits and advantages that American citizens are awarded.

I do think that he'll lose a lot of the minority vote, especially Latinos, but I think that's wrong because, and I was thinking this when I saw Latino people posting it on Facebook, what's wrong with making people follow the laws to become citizens and enjoy all of the freedoms and benefits that our country provides?

People here already are working, paying taxes, and following laws to provide people with benefits (not just immigrants), so why wouldn't Latinos have to follow the laws and policies of the country to be awarded the money that those who are following them are forced to provide under the laws and policies?

[Mike M (the other one)]

I can get behind that. Anything that slows the rate and starts taking away the incentives to come here.

[Belsnickel]

If Trump is in the camp that the 14th is being misapplied, then he will lose. I can't disagree with the notion that we need to look at the amendment and maybe think of doing another to adjust. But as it stands, the law states what it states. Now, we could get onto he spirit vs. letter of the law, but that argument could go on forever and we would be better served looking for a new amendment to adjust for today's needs.

[BonnieBengal]

(08-19-2015, 07:46 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm actually liking Trump on this issue and agree that the Amendment is wrong.

The Amendment was passed in the 1800s in an attempt to give the newly freed former-slaves citizenship, not so that people come here illegally, have babies, and gain all of the benefits and advantages that American citizens are awarded.

I do think that he'll lose a lot of the minority vote, especially Latinos, but I think that's wrong because, and I was thinking this when I saw Latino people posting it on Facebook, what's wrong with making people follow the laws to become citizens and enjoy all of the freedoms and benefits that our country provides?

People here already are working, paying taxes, and following laws to provide people with benefits (not just immigrants), so why wouldn't Latinos have to follow the laws and policies of the country to be awarded the money that those who are following them are forced to provide under the laws and policies?

Yes, only children of LEGAL immigrants or U.S. residents should be citizens.  

[*michaelsean*]

I always think that if you are born here, you are a citizen. But that doesn't mean your parents get an automatic pass to stay here.

[GMDino]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/birthright-citizenship-famous-people_55d5e712e4b055a6dab31447?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

Quote:Without Birthright Citizenship, We'd Be Missing These Great Americans

The 14th Amendment guarantees that people born in the United States are automatically granted the right to be citizens of this country, regardless of whether their parents are also citizens.

But in recent days, many Republican presidential candidates have said it's time to revisit that privilege, which has been around since the country's founding. In fact, the only time the country took away birthright citizenship for a group of people was during the days of slavery, when the Supreme Court ruled that African-Americans, either free or slave, could never become citizens.

Republican disdain for the 14th Amendment has been fueled by a belief that undocumented immigrants are coming to the United States in order to take advantage of the birthright citizenship provision. Reality television star and GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, for example, said birthright citizenship "remains the biggest magnet for illegal immigration."

But taking away this right would have effects far beyond what its critics may realize, as Walter Dellinger, who served as a top legal official in former President Bill Clinton's administration, told The Huffington Post this week.

"Today, it serves a very important function, that no one can go back to previous generations and find out that your claim to be a citizen is faulty because your grandparent or great-grandparents was not lawfully in the country," Dellinger said. "That's the critical importance of wiping the slate clean."

"If it weren't for birthright citizenship, people could go back and say, 'We found out your great-grandparent arrived at Ellis Island under a different name, and therefore none of her descendants are citizens either,'" Dellinger added. "Birthright citizenship eliminates all of those questions."

Here are some Americans who might not be Americans without birthright citizenship:



Actress Diane Guerrero, best known for playing Maritza Ramos on "Orange Is the New Black" and Lina on "Jane the Virgin," is the New Jersey-born daughter of undocumented immigrants who were deported when she was 14. Her parents came from Colombia and struggled to gain legal status in the United States. Guerrero described the insecurity her family had living in the shadows in a November op-ed in the Los Angeles Times: "Throughout my childhood I watched my parents try to become legal but to no avail. They lost their money to people they believed to be attorneys, but who ultimately never helped. That meant my childhood was haunted by the fear that they would be deported. If I didn't see anyone when I walked in the door after school, I panicked."


Alberto Gonzales, who served as President George W. Bush's attorney general, has said he is not sure whether his grandparents, three of whom came from Mexico, arrived in the United States legally. "I've looked at this issue, I've talked to my parents about it and it's just not clear," Gonzales said during a 2006 interview, adding, "[F]or me, my life has -- represents the American dream."


GOP presidential candidate Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) was born in Florida in 1971. But as National Journal noted, his parents, who were Cuban immigrants, did not become U.S. citizens until 1975. Rubio, unlike some of the other GOP presidential candidates, does not want to repeal the 14th Amendment. But he has said he is "open to exploring ways of not allowing people who are coming here deliberately for that purpose [having children] to acquire citizenship."


In 2008, Colorado-born wrestler Henry Cejudo, the son of undocumented immigrants, won a gold medal for his home country in the Olympics. Cejudo's older brother, Angel, said their family was just as American as everyone else's despite their parents' status. "Put yourself in my parents' shoes, or the shoes of anybody who has crossed over from Mexico," said Angel. "Would you stay poor with no chance to improve yourself, or find a way to go to the best country in the world any way you could? I guess that unless you're a Native American, somebody could say you don't really belong in the United States, because almost everybody is from somewhere else. But it causes arguments, because almost everybody is a little bit racist."


Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal ® was born in Baton Rouge in 1971, just six months after his parents came to the United States so his mother could pursue her graduate degree. In 2010, Jindal's spokesman said the governor's mother was a legal permanent resident at the time. On Monday, Jindal said it was time to end birthright citizenship for the children of undocumented immigrants.


In 2006, while a Republican senator from New Mexico, Pete Domenici surprised many of his colleagues with a floor speech revealing that his mother came to the United States as an undocumented immigrant from Italy. She received some incorrect legal advice that she would automatically become a citizen as soon as she married Domenici's father. In 1943, during World War II -- when Domenici was nine or 10 years old -- federal agents looking for Italian sympathizers came and took away his mother because she was undocumented. Over the next six months, she completed the paperwork to become a citizen. Domenici would still have been a citizen because his father was American, but his story put a different face on a group of people his colleagues often demonized.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-19-2015, 08:21 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I can get behind that. Anything that slows the rate and starts taking away the incentives to come here.

This is easily fixable and enactable tomorrow.  Simply fine businesses that employ illegals 10k a day, or more, per illegal employed and start actually enforcing it.  It would only take a few businesses getting hammered for businesses to cease employing illegals entirely.  with no economic incentive to stay they would leave.  now ask yourself why this hasn't been done.  Hint: the answer isn't just, "because Democrats".

[Brownshoe]

Eh, honestly I don't think that kids of illegals should be citizens. I think that we should be forcing illegals out of the country. I think that they should make the penalty for coming here illegally would be to not be able to come here legally any longer for a certain amount of time. I don't care if they come here just as long as it's legally.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-20-2015, 11:25 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Eh, honestly I don't think that kids of illegals should be citizens. I think that we should be forcing illegals out of the country. I think that they should make the penalty for coming here illegally would be to not be able to come here legally any longer for a certain amount of time. I don't care if they come here just as long as it's legally.

I agree that coming here legally is the better option, however I understand why so many come illegally.  The process should not be as nearly restrictive IMO.

[Belsnickel]

(08-20-2015, 10:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/birthright-citizenship-famous-people_55d5e712e4b055a6dab31447?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

Are you trying to sway people to be for, or against birthright citizenship with this.

[GMDino]

(08-21-2015, 07:32 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Are you trying to sway people to be for, or against birthright citizenship with this.

Yes.  

[Au165]

Not saying I am for or against the idea, but they are going to have to rewrite the amendment if they don't like it. I think anyone would be hard pressed to interpret it any other way at this point.

[*michaelsean*]

Since we like to base what we do on what every other country in the industrialized world does, what are their positions on it in their countries?

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-21-2015, 10:51 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Since we like to base what we do on what every other country in the industrialized world does, what are their positions on it in their countries?

Well Mexico, for example, sends government delegates to our state governments that actually enforce immigration laws and cry about how their poor government can't afford to take care of the people that we sent back for being here illegally. 

[*michaelsean*]

(08-21-2015, 10:27 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Well Mexico, for example, sends government delegates to our state governments that actually enforce immigration laws and cry about how their poor government can't afford to take care of the people that we sent back for being here illegally. 

Best I can tell, it's Canada.  So all the liberals who want to base what we do on what the rest of the industrialized nations do need to try to get rid of birthright citizenship.  Me, who doesn't care what any other country does, can continue to support it.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-20-2015, 10:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/birthright-citizenship-famous-people_55d5e712e4b055a6dab31447?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

Because of the opportunities they were given they were able to rise up, now the flip side, is that they prevented someone else that was here legally from reaching that status.

We could go back and forth all day, point is they're parents came here illegally and they should not automatically be giving USC just because they were born here. File the paperwork do it the right way and no one would have a beef with their status.

Doing is the right way is not impossible, and even easier if you have someone here that is willing to support you.