Trump denies 3,000 Puerto Ricans died from hurricanes; Claims Dems made it up

[BmorePat87]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-disputes-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria-death-toll-blames-democrats-for-making-him-look-bad/

Donald Trump is explicitly denying that nearly 3,000 Puerto Ricans died due to the hurricanes that hit the island last year. He claims that this was made up by Democrats to "hurt him". Trump previously called the response to Puerto Rico a "success" days ago.

An independent study found that 2,975 more deaths than average occurred in Puerto Rico during the aftermath of the hurricanes as many Americans on the island lacked basic necessities for months, particularly the elderly and those in the poorest parts of Puerto Rico.


This comes as the East Coast braces for Hurricane Florence and prepares for the ensuing damage.

[GMDino]

(09-13-2018, 11:01 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-disputes-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria-death-toll-blames-democrats-for-making-him-look-bad/

Donald Trump is explicitly denying that nearly 3,000 Puerto Ricans died due to the hurricanes that hit the island last year. He claims that this was made up by Democrats to "hurt him". Trump previously called the response to Puerto Rico a "success" days ago.

An independent study found that 2,975 more deaths than average occurred in Puerto Rico during the aftermath of the hurricanes as many Americans on the island lacked basic necessities for months, particularly the elderly and those in the poorest parts of Puerto Rico.


This comes as the East Coast braces for Hurricane Florence and prepares for the ensuing damage.

I shared this in the Trump Tweets thread.

His ability to lie and his supporters ability to believe him is scary.

I don't know how you can convince people like that of anything.  

[*michaelsean*]

2975 is not 3000. Trump affirmed again!!!

[Benton]

This is one of those where the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Did a higher number of people die than normal? Yes. Was that directly related to the country's shift in response (from handing out water and food and repairing infrastructure to tossing paper towels into a crowd)? Maybe.

It would take looking into each one of the deaths during the immediate period after, which I don't think was done. It sounds like they just said 'well, there was a higher mortality rate.'

[GMDino]

(09-13-2018, 11:31 AM)michaelsean Wrote: 2975 is not 3000.  Trump affirmed again!!!

He said 6-18.

3000 people did not die in the two hurricanes that hit Puerto Rico. When I left the Island, AFTER the storm had hit, they had anywhere from 6 to 18 deaths. As time went by it did not go up by much. Then, a long time later, they started to report really large numbers, like 3000...

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 13, 2018

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-13-2018, 11:32 AM)Benton Wrote: This is one of those where the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Did a higher number of people die than normal? Yes. Was that directly related to the country's shift in response (from handing out water and food and repairing infrastructure to tossing paper towels into a crowd)? Maybe.

It would take looking into each one of the deaths during the immediate period after, which I don't think was done. It sounds like they just said 'well, there was a higher mortality rate.'

A reasoned and rational response that will be completely ignored by some.  Let's say every death attributed to the hurricane was caused directly by it.  How many of those deaths was caused by an inadequate US response?  How many of those were caused by an inadequate response from the local governments?  How many were reasonably unavoidable?  Without that kind of data the casualty numbers tell us absolutely nothing about how adequate the Trump administrations response was or were blame for avoidable deaths lies.  

[GMDino]

(09-13-2018, 11:58 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A reasoned and rational response that will be completely ignored by some.  Let's say every death attributed to the hurricane was caused directly by it.  How many of those deaths was caused by an inadequate US response?  How many of those were caused by an inadequate response from the local governments?  How many were reasonably unavoidable?  Without that kind of data the casualty numbers tell us absolutely nothing about how adequate the Trump administrations response was or were blame for avoidable deaths lies.  

He said there were 6-18.

Do you think the study was done by Democrats to "make him look bad"?  Or do you think his incredibly fragile ego can't stand the thought that something bad happened and he might have to account for it?

[Benton]

(09-13-2018, 11:58 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A reasoned and rational response that will be completely ignored by some.  Let's say every death attributed to the hurricane was caused directly by it.  How many of those deaths was caused by an inadequate US response?  How many of those were caused by an inadequate response from the local governments?  How many were reasonably unavoidable?  Without that kind of data the casualty numbers tell us absolutely nothing about how adequate the Trump administrations response was or were blame for avoidable deaths lies.  

The local government's number was 70ish. The federal government (Trump) was 6-18ish.

The local government's study was 2,975. Harvard had another study that said 4,645 (link below).

A quick search, but it sounds like the modality was 'there was a hurricane, more people died, therefore it was because of the hurricane.' If you aren't looking at each cause of death — and for $300,000 I don't think they had the resources to look at several thousand police or coroner reports, along with speaking to witnesses, family and officials — then it's probably not a good gauge. 

Quote:The recent findings are just part of the first phase of what GWU expects to be a two-part investigation, in which they hope to interview families of victims who died during Maria’s aftermath, in an effort to identify how many of the 2,975 deaths can be attributed directly to the hurricane.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/puerto-rico-crisis/hurricane-maria-death-toll-puerto-rico-may-be-closer-2-n904426

[Benton]

(09-13-2018, 12:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: He said there were 6-18.

Do you think the study was done by Democrats to "make him look bad"?  Or do you think his incredibly fragile ego can't stand the thought that something bad happened and he might have to account for it?

The study was done (if I understood correctly) by the Puerto Rican government. 

[GMDino]

(09-13-2018, 12:12 PM)Benton Wrote: The study was done (if I understood correctly) by the Puerto Rican government. 

Could it be that Trump is just wrong?  Or lying? Or...something other than what he said?

The fact that we have to parse out whether it was 3000, 2975, 16, 289, whatever amount of deaths is just a joke.  It's another distraction from the Narcissist in the Oval Office who just spews whatever BS he thinks up.

And his loyal supporters/defenders who cannot admit they got duped by the conman rush to find a way to defend everything he says.

It  make me laugh and it's so sad.

[BmorePat87]

(09-13-2018, 11:58 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A reasoned and rational response that will be completely ignored by some.   

You can't say this 25 minutes later as if he is being ignored.

Quote:Let's say every death attributed to the hurricane was caused directly by it.  How many of those deaths was caused by an inadequate US response?  How many of those were caused by an inadequate response from the local governments?  How many were reasonably unavoidable?  Without that kind of data the casualty numbers tell us absolutely nothing about how adequate the Trump administrations response was or were blame for avoidable deaths lies. 

There's a difference between saying "3000 deaths occurred as a result of the hurricanes" and "3000 deaths occurred as a result of the federal response to the hurricanes". In this situation, Trump is explicitly denying the 3000 figure in general and pushing 6-18 with some wiggle room for a few more. I'm not going to blame him and I didn't (and I know I'm not necessarily the subject of your response), I just noted the denial of the deaths. This shouldn't be an issue of "I have to deny this independent figure because I think it makes me look bad". 

But we can't get into the breakdown of what caused each death if we are arguing over how many there even were because we're afraid of how bad that'll make us look. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-13-2018, 12:12 PM)Benton Wrote: The study was done (if I understood correctly) by the Puerto Rican government. 

It was commissioned by Puerto Rico but it was conducted by GWU's School of Public Health

https://gwtoday.gwu.edu/gw-researchers-2975-excess-deaths-linked-hurricane-maria


The report also wasn't a hit job against the federal response and looked at how response could be improved by all parties. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-13-2018, 12:28 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You can't say this 25 minutes later as if he is being ignored.

Actually the earlier he says it will be ignored the better.

Now if he had said was ignored then...

As to the OP: let's just quote Hill's:

At this point what does it matter/

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-13-2018, 12:28 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You can't say this 25 minutes later as if he is being ignored.



There's a difference between saying "3000 deaths occurred as a result of the hurricanes" and "3000 deaths occurred as a result of the federal response to the hurricanes". In this situation, Trump is explicitly denying the 3000 figure in general and pushing 6-18 with some wiggle room for a few more. I'm not going to blame him and I didn't (and I know I'm not necessarily the subject of your response), I just noted the denial of the deaths. This shouldn't be an issue of "I have to deny this independent figure because I think it makes me look bad". 

But we can't get into the breakdown of what caused each death if we are arguing over how many there even were because we're afraid of how bad that'll make us look. 

Except "we" aren't arguing about it, we're discussing the methodology and the conclusions.

[GMDino]

(09-13-2018, 12:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Actually the earlier he says it will be ignored the better.

Now if he had said was ignored then...

As to the OP: let's just quote Hill's:

At this point what does it matter/

The purpose, I think, was to analyze what was done so it could be done better.  

[BmorePat87]

(09-13-2018, 12:54 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Except "we" aren't arguing about it, we're discussing the methodology and the conclusions.

I'm saying "we" as in the United States not us in PnR. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-13-2018, 12:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Actually the earlier he says it will be ignored the better.

Now if he had said was ignored then...

As to the OP: let's just quote Hill's:

At this point what does it matter/

What does it matter that we're dismissing reality and recommendations for improved responses to natural disasters just to appease the ego of our President?

[*bfine32*]

(09-13-2018, 01:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: What does it matter that we're dismissing reality and recommendations for improved responses to natural disasters just to appease the ego of our President?

Of course our actions matter in response to Natural Disasters.  

[*michaelsean*]

(09-13-2018, 12:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: Could it be that Trump is just wrong?  Or lying? Or...something other than what he said?

The fact that we have to parse out whether it was 3000, 2975, 16, 289, whatever amount of deaths is just a joke.  It's another distraction from the Narcissist in the Oval Office who just spews whatever BS he thinks up.

And his loyal supporters/defenders who cannot admit they got duped by the conman rush to find a way to defend everything he says.

It  make me laugh and it's so sad.

Are you seriously commenting that my post was a for real defense?  

[GMDino]

(09-13-2018, 01:29 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Are you seriously commenting that my post was a for real defense?  

No, I wasn't.  Sorry.  I was just adding that he said 6-18.  He was WAY off.