Trump indicted...again

[Mickeypoo]

(06-09-2023, 11:27 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm not at all shocked that's your position.



Just like Nixon, the answer is never.  


I actually put more stock in your intelligence than this.  You can't possibly see the tremendous fallout to our political system and national cohesiveness to going after a former POTUS criminally?  I get that Trump hurt a lot of people's feelings and those people are now overjoyed at this occurrence.  But anyone celebrating this has zero comprehension of the long term consequences.  This is bad.  I honestly put very little stock in the idea of our nation Balkanizing in the past.  This is the first time I think it's becoming a real possibility.

As an aside, if there's a former POTUS that deserves to rot in prison it's W.  But now the left sees him as some lovable buffoon.  Maybe if he had made some mean Tweets they'd have gone after him too.

TDS is a real mental illness.  So is political bias.  It blinds some to the big picture.  

Trump walks carefully down ramp........aaaarrrrgggghhhhh he is not fit for office!!!!!!!
Biden falls a gazillion times and won't talk to the media unscripted and even then he is lost..........yay, clap clap, Biden is awesome, world leaders respect him.  

Lmao, you can't make this shit up.     It sure is fun to watch watch the in your hypocrisy turned up to 11 on a daily basis though.     Classified docs in a garage, not secured by someone with no authorization to have them.  Nothing to see here.   Trump has docs secured and was prez............aaaarrrggghhhh burn him aliiiiiiiive!!!!!!

Have a great weekend!   DeSantis 2024!!

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 12:16 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Have a great weekend!   DeSantis 2024!!

Hot take, DeSantis is behind this because Trump being at Gitmo is Ron's only hope of having at shot at getting the GOP nomination in the next 2-10 years.  Also, DeSantis was a defense lawyer in the navy wasn't he?  That either falls under the DOJ or it's at least close enough to get people asking questions about just who may be weaponizing the DOJ to take out a political rival here.

DeSantis has some motive here and an inside track to target Trump. Just asking questions here but why aren't we looking into this?

[Mickeypoo]

(06-09-2023, 12:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: None of this mess would happen if we didn't bother having elections and just let Trump be our version of Putin.  He only had to do all this illegal stuff because we made him run for president a second time. 

lmao!!   Which admin\party is banning certain appliances, fuels, vehicles, forcing injections, wants to ban guns, hate women, etc, etc.

Gawd I love the comedy!!!!   The best are the people that think other world leaders look up to, respect and aren't laughing their asses off at Biden.   That is about as out of touch with reality as you could possibly get. 


DeSantis 2024!!

[Mickeypoo]

(06-09-2023, 12:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hot take, DeSantis is behind this because Trump being at Gitmo is Ron's only hope of having at shot at getting the GOP nomination in the next 2-10 years.  Also, DeSantis was a defense lawyer in the navy wasn't he?  That either falls under the DOJ or it's at least close enough to get people asking questions about just who may be weaponizing the DOJ to take out a political rival here.

DeSantis has some motive here and an inside track to target Trump. Just asking questions here but why aren't we looking into this?

I personally didn't want Trump to run again.

If people can't break out of their TDS and bias and think critically without blinders and see that there is a huge double standard going on between Trump and Biden I can't them.

And it's not a coincidence the news of Trump getting indicted broke at the same time the FBI letter dropped about Biden/hunter.  If people actually believe that is just a coincidence then just wow.   lol.

I'm really out now.   Have a great weekend!   

Everyone enjoy your TDS while being complete and utter hypocrites about Biden.

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 12:30 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: lmao!!   Which admin\party is banning certain appliances, fuels, vehicles, forcing injections, wants to ban guns, hate women, etc, etc.

Gawd I love the comedy!!!!   The best are the people that think other world leaders look up to, respect and aren't laughing their asses off at Biden.   That is about as out of touch with reality as you could possibly get. 


DeSantis 2024!!

I think you need to take a good look at who is attacking you boy Ron and preventing him from even being on the ticket in 2024.  Eventually DeSantis supporters, much like DeSantis himself are going to have to start fighting back against Trump, but here we are again seeing them line up to kiss Trump's ass and make sure no one says a bad word about him.

[Luvnit2]

The issue to me is "equal application of the law". HRC deleted over 33,000 emails under subpoena. If that is not obstruction, then no such thing as obstruction. HRC and Joe Biden stole, yes stole classified documents. Neither was the POTUS who can take documents. Yet, both were not charged.

How can any level headed honest person fail to see Democrats control the DOJ and have corrupted the FBI and the CIA.

That does not include all of the BS thrown at Trump while President. It does not include Biden stating he forced Ukraine to fire a prosecutor who also was investigating his son and him. VP Joe Biden threatened to withhold money so he created a bribery situation.

Hunter Biden had to pay millions to the IRS in taxes when he was caught trying to stiff his obligation. If you or me, we would be in jail for that 1 offense.

Sorry libs, this is all abad look for Garland and the DOJ.

[GMDino]

(06-09-2023, 12:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Why do you think he didn't?


Talking point?  What a horrible counter to the point being made.  Ask yourself this.  How many Trump supporters are there?  Really diehard ones.  I think fifty million is easily agreed upon, and it may be many more.  How will they react to this?  Also, to your last point, please provide examples, because I can't think of any.  I doubt you can either or you would have listed them.


Wouldn't that be "interesting?"


Indeed?  Name one.  Also, I haven't seen one person asking for mercy here.

Oh well, if he has lots of supporters we can't hold him accountable, I guess. 

What is the lower number of supporters before we can uphold the law against someone?

I'm guessing you meant we'll have more incidents like January 6th?  If his supporters turn violent because he's held to the same legal standards as everyone else I don't what to tell you other than we've told you they were like this before and the response was they are not violent people.

I mean I understand how cult like it is with Trump and his supporters.

Nonetheless I am fine with ANYONE being held accountable no matter their status in life, how many elections they won or how many supporters they have or which party they belong too.  

If we are to believe our legal system is fair then it should be fairly used for anyone.  Period.

I'm kind of sorry you don't feel the same.

[GMDino]

(06-09-2023, 12:40 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The issue to me is "equal application of the law". HRC deleted over 33,000 emails under subpoena. If that is not obstruction, then no such thing as obstruction. HRC and Joe Biden stole, yes stole classified documents. Neither was the POTUS who can take documents. Yet, both were not charged.

How can any level headed honest person fail to see Democrats control the DOJ and have corrupted the FBI and the CIA.

That does not include all of the BS thrown at Trump while President. It does not include Biden stating he forced Ukraine to fire a prosecutor who also was investigating his son and him. VP Joe Biden threatened to withhold money so he created a bribery situation.

Hunter Biden had to pay millions to the IRS in taxes when he  was caught trying to stiff his obligation. If you or me, we would be in jail for that 1 offense.

Sorry libs, this is all abad look for Garland and the DOJ.

Half of your post is conspiracy theories and items that have been proven false.  It's not even worth refuting them again.

Trump was right.  He could shoot a man on 5th avenue and not lose any support.

And his supporters would say he couldn't be prosecuted.  Unreal.

[Belsnickel]

(06-09-2023, 11:11 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't understand how anyone could see this as anything but a horrible negative. A sitting POTUS's DOJ indicts his main political opponent just before campaign season. The optics on this are abysmal and are only going to solidly reinforce for tens of millions of Americans that the system is truly corrupt. There's a reason no one really went after Nixon. Nixon's crimes were almost certainly worse than Trump's, if for no other reason than Nixon was light years more intelligent. This will not end well.

Here is my thing, the special counsel that did this is a huge public integrity guy and an independent. People seem to forget that this isn't run by Biden's DOJ, the whole point of a special counsel is that it occurs independent of the department. So the constant messaging about "Biden's DOJ" or whatever bringing charges is just false.

Also, keep in mind that there is a special counsel currently investigating Biden's actions, as well. The guy appointed is a registered Republican that was an appointed US attorney under Trump. So I don't see this at all an uneven application of the law. Garland has taken the same steps for Biden that he took for Trump and he is leaving it in their hands.

I get that the whole situation is a cluster and that we are at a very divided time right now, but I agree that we need to make sure no one is above the law. I'll be honest in that the one person I have faith in upholding that right now is Garland.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 12:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Oh well, if he has lots of supporters we can't hold him accountable, I guess. 

What is the lower number of supporters before we can uphold the law against someone?

For a POTUS?  There is no number.

Quote:I'm guessing you meant we'll have more incidents like January 6th?  If his supporters turn violent because he's held to the same legal standards as everyone else I don't what to tell you other than we've told you they were like this before and the response was they are not violent people.

I mean I understand how cult like it is with Trump and his supporters.

Let's flip the script on this.  First of all, he's not being held to the same legal standards as everyone else when we compare him to his peers.  This isn't up for dispute.  Secondly, if you knew, with dead certainty, that a Trump conviction would result in massive civil unrest and thousands of deaths, if not more, would you still be in favor of it?

Quote:Nonetheless I am fine with ANYONE being held accountable no matter their status in life, how many elections they won or how many supporters they have or which party they belong too.  

Good for you.  Unfortunately how you feel about this isn't the topic at hand.

Quote:If we are to believe our legal system is fair then it should be fairly used for anyone.  Period.

Except it isn't, as I already illustrated with Richard Clarke, a point you noticeably failed to respond to.

Quote:I'm kind of sorry you don't feel the same.

This is a favorite tactic of yours and quite honestly it's banal.  No rational thinking person could construe that from my posts here, or anywhere else.  Quit trying to get a little endorphin rush from trying to score cheap points.  It's boring and contributes nothing to the topic at hand.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 01:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is my thing, the special counsel that did this is a huge public integrity guy and an independent. People seem to forget that this isn't run by Biden's DOJ, the whole point of a special counsel is that it occurs independent of the department. So the constant messaging about "Biden's DOJ" or whatever bringing charges is just false.

In instances like this perception is going to trump (no pun) reality every time.  If federal charges are being brought it's by the DOJ, which is currently run by Democrats under a Democratic POTUS.  This facts are all a huge number of people are going to need, or care, to know.

Quote:Also, keep in mind that there is a special counsel currently investigating Biden's actions, as well. The guy appointed is a registered Republican that was an appointed US attorney under Trump. So I don't see this at all an uneven application of the law. Garland has taken the same steps for Biden that he took for Trump and he is leaving it in their hands.

Actually, my thinking is that the only way out of this is for Biden to be indicted as well.  I can see a scenario where they clear both Trump and Biden out of the way for '24 and have the country move on.  Maybe that's too tinfoil hat like thinking, but it's the only way I can see this not being a huge tipping point for our country.

Quote:I get that the whole situation is a cluster and that we are at a very divided time right now, but I agree that we need to make sure no one is above the law. I'll be honest in that the one person I have faith in upholding that right now is Garland.

You have way more faith in Garland than I think he deserves.  Also, every POTUS has been above the law, if not then many of them would be in jail.  W certainly would, why isn't he?

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 01:15 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Actually, my thinking is that the only way out of this is for Biden to be indicted as well.  I can see a scenario where they clear both Trump and Biden out of the way for '24 and have the country move on.  Maybe that's too tinfoil hat like thinking, but it's the only way I can see this not being a huge tipping point for our country.

That would clear Biden out of the way, but I don't see how that affects Trump or his supporters...they aren't going to declare his indictments to be fair and just and then move on peacefully just because Biden got rung up, too.  They "know" Trump is innocent and Biden is guilty, so why seeing them both get indicted would lead to them calmly and rationally moving on is beyond me. 

It's up to the voters of the GOP to clear Trump out of running.  Personally, I'm having a real hard time seeing what would inspire them to move on, though. 



EDIT - You could make a thread in Jungle Noise or around the AFC North asking if fans of all 4 teams would agree that Big Ben and Watson need to be locked up but Burrow and Jackson need to go to jail, too.  Lock up all 4 QBs and let's start anew.  Let's be honest, Bengals fans really want Ben locked up, they may go fo it.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(06-09-2023, 12:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: Half of your post is conspiracy theories and items that have been proven false.  It's not even worth refuting them again.

Trump was right.  He could shoot a man on 5th avenue and not lose any support.

And his supporters would say he couldn't be prosecuted.  Unreal.

All his post showed was the danger of someone immersed in right wing media. Rupert Murdoch has proven over and over again the damage an immigrant can do to this country.

I have never told anyone to "Stop watching Fox News/OAN/Newsmax". However, I've told many on the right "Stop watching Fox News/OAN/Newsmax exclusively". Once people get info from outside of that bubble, they make less and less comments like the ones in his post. Apparently, truth and facts only matter when it makes the other side look bad, until then, conspiracy theories are all they have to fall back on to feel good about themselves and their decisions.

[Belsnickel]

(06-09-2023, 01:15 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You have way more faith in Garland than I think he deserves.  Also, every POTUS has been above the law, if not then many of them would be in jail.  W certainly would, why isn't he?

Any indictments over the handling of classified documents or the coverup of them in Florida is for actions taken after Trump was no longer POTUS. That is different than charges for what is done as an official action as POTUS.

FWIW, I agree about G.W. I just think there needs to be a differentiation between actions taken as POTUS and those taken as a private citizen.

[GMDino]

(06-09-2023, 01:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: For a POTUS?  There is no number.



Let's flip the script on this.  First of all, he's not being held to the same legal standards as everyone else when we compare him to his peers.  This isn't up for dispute.  Secondly, if you knew, with dead certainty, that a Trump conviction would result in massive civil unrest and thousands of deaths, if not more, would you still be in favor of it?



Good for you.  Unfortunately how you feel about this isn't the topic at hand.



Except it isn't, as I already illustrated with Richard Clarke, a point you noticeably failed to respond to.


This is a favorite tactic of yours and quite honestly it's banal.  No rational thinking person could construe that from my posts here, or anywhere else.  Quit trying to get a little endorphin rush from trying to score cheap points.  It's boring and contributes nothing to the topic at hand.

It is very disputed that Trump is being held to different legal standards.  He acknowledged he deliberately brought the documents, claimed he magically declassified them (because he doesn't understand how that works) then lied about having returned them all...at least twice.  Then he's on tape talking about other documents he took.

Police need less evidence than that to bring you in on "suspicion"....lol.

So let me answer with this:  If his cult is really willing to attack others over a legal case then it would have happened sooner or later anyway.  After years of us saying there was a violent and dangerous group in the Trump supporters and being told that was simply political bias and the "left" were the true violent ones NOW you believe they will kill people over Trump.

Who are they going after?  Politicians? "Liberals"?  And won't the police protect us?  The army?  

Will they form their own government and start a civil war? 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 01:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: It is very disputed that Trump is being held to different legal standards.  He acknowledged he deliberately brought the documents, claimed he magically declassified them (because he doesn't understand how that works) then lied about having returned them all...at least twice.  Then he's on tape talking about other documents he took.

You again, rather predictably, ignore evidence given before Congress that W invaded Iraq under deliberately false pretenses.  This dwarfs anything Trump has ever done by a significant margin.

Quote:Police need less evidence than that to bring you in on "suspicion"....lol.

Not if we're talking about a current or former POTUS.

Quote:So let me answer with this:  If his cult is really willing to attack others over a legal case then it would have happened sooner or later anyway.  After years of us saying there was a violent and dangerous group in the Trump supporters and being told that was simply political bias and the "left" were the true violent ones NOW you believe they will kill people over Trump.

Who are they going after?  Politicians? "Liberals"?  And won't the police protect us?  The army?  

Will they form their own government and start a civil war? 

Your answer is a non-answer.  It's a simple question, if you definitively knew that this action would result in massive civil unrest and thousands of deaths, minimum, would you still be in favor of it?  If people do get violent over this it will be under the genuine belief that our government has become tyrannical.  Is it not American tradition to revolt against tyranny?  You don't get to determine the perception of others, and you seem willfully blind to it as well.  So instead of tap dancing around the questions, kindly answer it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 01:32 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Any indictments over the handling of classified documents or the coverup of them in Florida is for actions taken after Trump was no longer POTUS. That is different than charges for what is done as an official action as POTUS.

At the end of the day that's not relevant to the point I'm making as it won't matter at all to the people who are going to perceive this the way I described.

Quote:FWIW, I agree about G.W. I just think there needs to be a differentiation between actions taken as POTUS and those taken as a private citizen.

Why?  One of the main arguments in favor of this indictment is "no one should be above the law."  Why does that change when we're talking about actions taken by a sitting POTUS versus a former one?

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(06-09-2023, 11:22 AM)GMDino Wrote: Trump lied about having them, lied and said he returned them all, lied about it all.

He made his bed and now he has to lie in it.  

They did the investigations into Hillary and Biden.  The gop had years to find something on Clinton when they had control and still nothing.  

Correct, the old saying, "The coverup is worse than the actual crime."  The difference is Biden and Mike Pence willfully allowed the feds to come into their home and offices and conduct a search and remove anything they deemed as gov't property.  

Trump continued to lie about having them, tried to hide them, and lied some more + Trump then came up with crazy justifications that he could just de-classify the docs and then went on TV and admitted to all of it.  He has to be his lawyer's worse nightmare as a client b/c he doesn't know how to stay out of his own way. 

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(06-09-2023, 11:22 AM)GMDino Wrote: Trump lied about having them, lied and said he returned them all, lied about it all.

He made his bed and now he has to lie in it.  

They did the investigations into Hillary and Biden.  The gop had years to find something on Clinton when they had control and still nothing.  

The cover up is always worse than the actual crime.

[GMDino]

(06-09-2023, 01:55 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Correct, the old saying, "The coverup is worse than the actual crime."  The difference is Biden and Mike Pence willfully allowed the feds to come into their home and offices and conduct a search and remove anything they deemed as gov't property.  

Trump continued to lie about having them, tried to hide them, and lied some more + Trump then came up with crazy justifications that he could just de-classify the docs and then went on TV and admitted to all of it.  He has to be his lawyer's worse nightmare as a client b/c he doesn't know how to stay out of his own way. 

That should have been one of the lessons learned from Nixon.  And Bill Clinton for that matter.