Trump invited to wake of slain NYC police officer Diller

[StoneTheCrow]

(03-29-2024, 06:02 AM)hollodero Wrote: I also found it wild how all of a sudden many republicans didn't give a shit. Calling the Capitol violence a tourist visit and whatnot.
I don't like the other party too much, but at least they do not call violent rioters heroes or incredible patriots and as of now don't contemplate pardons.

Na they just funded their bail outs and put the idea of Covid being an actual thing on the back burner so they could do their fiery but mostly peaceful thing.

[*Nately120*]

(03-29-2024, 08:36 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: LEOs should 100% be held to a higher standard. Police are agents of the state and every single agent of the state should be held to a higher standard. Our government should be a reflection of our ideals and those that act on behalf of the state should behave in that manner. Maybe this comes from me being someone who performs oversight functions on government agencies, maybe it is from my own values from Scouting and Freemasonry, but this is how our government should work. It will never be perfect, but that's why we have the policies in place intended to keep it in check.

I'm about 900 pages into War and Peace and I actually picture a vague version of you as Pierre Bezukhov.  I'm not literarily savvy enough to know if that is accurate, amusing, or insulting. 

[hollodero]

(03-29-2024, 11:13 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Na they just funded their bail outs and put the idea of Covid being an actual thing on the back burner so they could do their fiery but mostly peaceful thing.

Didn't say they were perfect. I'm of the strong conviction that both of your parties are awful, one just even more significantly so. Bailing out protesters (I wasn't aware of democrats funding bail outs, also don't think bail outs are per se awful, but I believe you on that) still is quite different from calling insurrectionists - that's what the Capitol stormers are to me - patriots, heroes and hostages. Also, BLM did the protesting and imho they are not that closely associated with the democrats, at least not close enough as to paint it as the democrat's thing as intensely as one has to call the Capitol storm Trump's thing.

[Belsnickel]

(03-29-2024, 11:24 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm about 900 pages into War and Peace and I actually picture a vague version of you as Pierre Bezukhov.  I'm not literarily savvy enough to know if that is accurate, amusing, or insulting. 

I am going to go with a little of column A, a little of column B, but not column C at all. At least to me. I am a very cynical idealist, which seems paradoxical but it's probably the best way to describe my thought processes.

[*Nately120*]

(03-29-2024, 11:36 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I am going to go with a little of column A, a little of column B, but not column C at all. At least to me. I am a very cynical idealist, which seems paradoxical but it's probably the best way to describe my thought processes.

Ah neat.  If you were curious it's fair to view me as the worst combination of Alexander Portnoy and Rabbit Angstrom. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-29-2024, 03:44 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote:

Yes.

That was supposed to be the softball question. Because they are. And they should be.



 



idk maybe this is where I have had it wrong all along

Foolish to assume that humans are Perfect.

Most of us wouldn't last a day trying to do their job. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-29-2024, 11:31 AM)hollodero Wrote: Didn't say they were perfect. I'm of the strong conviction that both of your parties are awful, one just even more significantly so. Bailing out protesters (I wasn't aware of democrats funding bail outs, also don't think bail outs are per se awful, but I believe you on that) still is quite different from calling insurrectionists - that's what the Capitol stormers are to me - patriots, heroes and hostages. Also, BLM did the protesting and imho they are not that closely associated with the democrats, at least not close enough as to paint it as the democrat's thing as intensely as one has to call the Capitol storm Trump's thing.

You are right they both are. All we can do is pick the side that aligns more with our personal beliefs, doesn't mean we should be jumping thru hell trying to defend our side when they do something moronic. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-28-2024, 10:08 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You're not wrong about Sicknick, but let's not pretend that Trump isn't talking about pardoning people who did actually commit violence against LEOs on January 6th. He is calling them heroes and hostages for violent actions against police, some of whom have pled guilty to that effect and many of whom show zero remorse. Would you not consider this to be an attack on the rule of law?

I wanted to give this post some real thought before responding, because it is a rarity here.  A sincere response to a position and a desire for constructive discussion.  Yes, I do think Trump pardoning the rioters would be an attack on the rule of law.  At the same time, I think some of the charges and sentences for some of, please note some of, the participants was extremely over the top.  I've seen literal murderers get far gentler treatment.  I completely agree that 01/06 was a horrific event, but the Dem response to it has been over the top and really helps fuel the martyr narrative.  Are the harsh sentences a necessary deterrent for anyone thinking about engaging in these types of actions in the future?  Maybe, but that flies completely in the face of the Democratic parties position on the criminal justice system, especially the past four years.  People note the inconsistency.

Quote:I'll be honest, were I in a demographic, be it through race, religion, profession, or anything else that was used as a political prop by politicians I would probably hate them, too. I am just often frustrated by people who don't recognize that neither party gives a shit about you, or any of us. Political parties as a whole are concerned about winning elections and they will shift their positions with the winds of public opinion. Do you think the GOP won't drop LEOs if they see it prudent just as quickly as they dropped free-trade when Trump told them to?

I think it's rather clear in my posts that I don't trust either party.  I do know which party has been taking steaming dumps on me, my colleagues and my very profession for the past four years, and it continues to this day.  So, while experience may vary, my view of the Democratic party is in the toilet.  I actively despise them now.  It's honestly a position I never thought I'd be in, being a lifelong Dem voter until the last time I voted for anything other than propositions and local elections, which was 2016.  What I have seen from the Dems, admittedly in a deep blue state, since then has been vindictive, petty, pandering, venal, willfully ignorant and racist.  This party actively puts the interests and well being of career criminals above the ordinary law abiding citizen.  All the while actively vilifying law enforcement, probation and parole.  And not shirking from outright lying while doing so.  So while I don't see the GOP as a great alternative, it is better at least here.  Admittedly not on issues like abortion or birth control, not at all, but where the hell else can a person turn?  

Quote:I really just hate partisan bullshit, to be honest. Neither party really lives up to my values or meets my views on things and I see them as nothing more than tribal designations which are erroneously used as identities even though the vast majority of people who claim them are outsiders looking in who wouldn't be given the time of day by those on the inside.

Indeed, couple this with the ever increasing need for many to apply labels to you if you don't align perfectly with party ideals.  Don't like gun control, Trump supporter! I could obviously go on.  I wish there was a legitimate common sense party, one that looks at an issue and addresses the pros and cons and then comes to a logical conclusion.  It wouldn't inflame passions, but damn it would be a breath of fresh air.

Quote:Sorry, feeling a little ranty this evening for some reason so just a mini-tirade of the idiocy of our current political system and the way people fall for the propaganda designed to divide them.

Seeing as how I kicked it off with a little rant of my own, after a particularly bad day thanks to politicians, no apologies are necessary.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-29-2024, 01:50 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: So what do you guys think is a fair response from citizenry when a person in uniform whose job is to serve and protect brutally beats or kills a person who doesn’t deserve it?

I think not looting, rioting, committing mass arson and assaulting people would be a good start.  The problem with your question is most of the time these riots are due to a completely lawful shooting.  

Quote:You guys ok holding LEOs to a higher standard than criminals?

Absolutely.  You ok with actually holding criminals accountable and protecting the common citizen?

[Luvnit2]

(03-29-2024, 08:09 AM)pally Wrote: Trump said multiple times during the 2016 campaign that he knew how to solve crime in his infamous 2 weeks.  Well he didn’t then, can’t now, and won’t in the future

I see lots of deflection attempting to remove the stink around 3 former Presidents, all Democrats miles away from a wake for a fallen officer chose to ignore the family, the police family so they could make 25 million dollars. 

Trump flew in from Florida for one purpose, to pay his respects to the wife, family and the NYPD. He was so comforting when leaving he was applauded. Trump was applauded at a wake. Those at the funeral said he spent 10 minutes with Diller's widow, then went with her to the casket and they prayed over him. He then went and offered his SINCERE CONDOLENCES to other family members. He made such a strong case for compassion in a short time, he was applauded.

Meanwhile, Biden, Obama and Clinton did not have the decency to call the family, let alone skip a portion of a fundraiser to offer condolences. As leaders of the Democratic party, their actions spoke loudly, police are not important, it is OK for NYC to continue to not prosecute criminals. He was killed by a career criminal arrested for having an illegal gun weeks earlier, yet was not in jail. If soft on crime persecutors and NYC judges of their jobs, Jonathn Diller is alive, his widow's life is not upended and his one year old baby grows up with his father.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-29-2024, 12:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I see lots of deflection attempting to remove the stink around 3 former Presidents, all Democrats miles away from a wake for a fallen officer chose to ignore the family, the police family so they could make 25 million dollars. 

Trump flew in from Florida for one purpose, to pay his respects to the wife, family and the NYPD. He was so comforting when leaving he was applauded. Trump was applauded at a wake. Those at the funeral said he spent 10 minutes with Diller's widow, then went with her to the casket and they prayed over him. He then went and offered his SINCERE CONDOLENCES to other family members. He made such a strong case for compassion in a short time, he was applauded.

Meanwhile, Biden, Obama and Clinton did not have the decency to call the family, let alone skip a portion of a fundraiser to offer condolences. As leaders of the Democratic party, their actions spoke loudly, police are not important, it is OK for NYC to continue to not prosecute criminals. He was killed by a career criminal arrested for having an illegal gun weeks earlier, yet was not in jail. If soft on crime persecutors and NYC judges of their jobs, Jonathn Diller is alive, his widow's life is not upended and his one year old baby grows up with his father.

But but but Trump didn't say anything about the FSK Bridge, so he's an ass.

That's the predicted rebuttal

[Belsnickel]

(03-29-2024, 12:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I wanted to give this post some real thought before responding, because it is a rarity here.  A sincere response to a position and a desire for constructive discussion.  Yes, I do think Trump pardoning the rioters would be an attack on the rule of law.  At the same time, I think some of the charges and sentences for some of, please note some of, the participants was extremely over the top.  I've seen literal murderers get far gentler treatment.  I completely agree that 01/06 was a horrific event, but the Dem response to it has been over the top and really helps fuel the martyr narrative.  Are the harsh sentences a necessary deterrent for anyone thinking about engaging in these types of actions in the future?  Maybe, but that flies completely in the face of the Democratic parties position on the criminal justice system, especially the past four years.  People note the inconsistency.

Oh, I completely agree that the response has been over the top. I think there is an appropriate amount of seriousness with which we need to look at what happened that day, but there is a line at which it becomes heavy-handed. Criminal justice would not be one of the things you and I agree on most likely because it is one of my more progressive areas, and I say without hesitation that unless a person involved in that incident took part in, incited, and/or planned violent actions, there should not be prison time; fines only. Those that broke in, took part in property destruction, etc., there is no need for imprisonment. The Capitol is a place that belongs to us all, and restitution should be made for theft and destruction, but that's it.

All of that being said, federal prosecutors are not generally known for having a progressive attitude towards these sorts of things no matter what administration is in place.

[hollodero]

(03-29-2024, 12:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You are right they both are. All we can do is pick the side that aligns more with our personal beliefs, doesn't mean we should be jumping thru hell trying to defend our side when they do something moronic. 

Yeah well, jumping through hell sure is ill-advised. But my stance would be incomplete without the "...one even more significantly so" part. Therefore I can not fully agree with your overall conclusion. The reason being Donald Trump whom I consider to be dangerous (and then some, but I stick with dangerous here). The parties are not the same to me in that regard.

[GMDino]

(03-29-2024, 01:01 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: But but but Trump didn't say anything about the FSK Bridge, so he's an ass.

That's the predicted rebuttal

I love projection...lol.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-29-2024, 01:48 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah well, jumping through hell sure is ill-advised. But my stance would be incomplete without the "...one even more significantly so" part. Therefore I can not fully agree with your overall conclusion. The reason being Donald Trump whom I consider to be dangerous (and then some, but I stick with dangerous here). The parties are not the same to me in that regard.

Yea well R's didn't give me a better choice, I would have been happy to be voting for just about any other Candidate (Especially Haley, i'm hoping she gets a fair shot in 2028). 
We've already seen what both candidates will/won't do and I'd rather get the immigration to reverse direction before Biden opens the flood gates for Haiti to flood us as well. 

(03-29-2024, 02:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: I love projection...lol.

What's the matter? Couldn't find a bridge meme?

[GMDino]

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/ofc-sicknicks-family-blasts-trump-for-exploiting-slain-officer

Quote:Ofc. Sicknick's Family Blasts Trump for Exploiting Slain Officer

[color=var(--dek_size_c_color,#333)]"There's nothing good about this man."[/color]

• Ron Filipkowski
• 25 minutes ago
  

The family of Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick is fuming at Donald Trump's shameless attempt to exploit the death of NYPD Officer Jonathan Diller by flying in to appear at his memorial service for twenty minutes for a photo op before rushing to a local drive thru to order $200 worth of fast food. Brian Sicknick suffered two strokes as a result of his injuries sustained during Trump's riot on J6, and died days later.

Diller was the 8th police officer shot and killed in the line of duty in the United States this year. Trump said nothing after each of the previous seven, did not call their families or attend their services. Many times he was holding rallies or fundraisers on the day or their funerals. On one date he was hosting Hungary's authoritarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban.

But this particular service just happened to be on the same day and place as a major pre-planned fundraiser for Joe Biden hosted by former Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. It is also being hosted by the city that is currently prosecuting him both civilly and criminally. So, Trump seized about the opportunity to exploit Diller's death in his uniquely disgusting and shameless way by claiming to care about this officer's family while Biden was raising money.





The Trump campaign claimed it was simply conveying the message that he "backs the blue." But he didn't back the police on J6. Of the 140 officers who suffered injuries at the hands of Trump's mob, not one of them received a call from Trump or a visit from him in the hospital. He has never praised their service of heroism. In fact, he has promised to pardon the criminals who assaulted them.


The father and brother of Officer Sicknick were disgusted by what they saw yesterday, and were not going to remain silent over it. In an interview with the NY Daily News, Brian's father Charles Sicknick said:
"He makes sure he gets his face out there. The guy's a criminal. He's the reason my son is dead - because of the riot at the Capitol. He's a publicity hound. Trump does whatever will get him votes and helps Donald Trump. There's nothing good about this man."


Brian's brother Kenneth Sicknick said, "The fact that he states he's law and order but he sent a mob that ultimately ended up killing my brother. He has such a lack of self-awareness of what he does. He's using that officer's death as a campaign platform."

Obviously people can debate whether his strokes and untimely death were caused by being attacked on January 6th, but you can't argue that Trump never seemed to care about an officer's death publicly until this week despite his rhetoric.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-29-2024, 03:13 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What's the matter? Couldn't find a bridge meme?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-29-2024, 06:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://www.meidastouch.com/news/ofc-sicknicks-family-blasts-trump-for-exploiting-slain-officer



Obviously people can debate whether his strokes and untimely death were caused by being attacked on January 6th, but you can't argue that Trump never seemed to care about an officer's death publicly until this week despite his rhetoric.

Well, at the very least he's tied with the entire Democratic Party in caring about only one officer's death. 

[JustWinBaby]

(03-29-2024, 06:54 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well, at the very least he's tied with the entire Democratic Party in caring about only one officer's death. 

back when SNL was funny....

[*Nately120*]

(03-29-2024, 12:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You are right they both are. All we can do is pick the side that aligns more with our personal beliefs, doesn't mean we should be jumping thru hell trying to defend our side when they do something moronic. 

I think right now it's basically the right being in a toxic romance with Trump while the left wastes its proverbial breath trying to talk them out of said romance.  It really is like trying to force one of your friends out of a bad relationship, you just can't do it and one of the ultimate goals of the abusive partner is to get all the former contacts and friends of their partner to get frustrated and give up.

I will say as a society-watcher it's fascinating to look at adult children frustratedly watching their older parents heap the unconditional love onto Donald Trump that they never showed them.  I don't agree with your choices and we aren't on great terms, but damn if Trump can't do anything to make me stop loving him.


So in short, a lot of people aren't terribly into what the left is or is doing, but we are desperate to convince ourselves and others that it is better than going back to Mr. Revenge Tour.