Trump, liar liar pants on fire

[fredtoast]

(10-23-2018, 02:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  just don't let the fact that the more affluent one is, the more likely he/she is to vote GOP. 

That is not a "fact" at all.  The group that is "most likely" to vote for Trump is the $50-$100K group where he got 50% of the vote and was 4 points ahead of Hillary.  In all the "more affluent" classes Trump drew a smaller percentage and Hillary drew more.


Like I said.  Learn to look at the numbers yourself instead of just repeating what FoxNews tells you.

[*bfine32*]

(10-23-2018, 02:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No contradiction.  I just didn't have the numbers on the most educated states right in front of me.  But here they are.

Based on percentage of population with a Bachelors Degree Hillary won the top 14 States.  Utah ranks 15th and is the highest rated state that Trump carried.

I get your desire to fight tooth and nail to keep up the narrative that the Trump base is ignorant; however, you cannot dispute (I mean you've tried and you've failed) that as a voting populace, the poorer favored Hillary and the wealthier favored Trump. 

Do you think Hill's Student Debt forgiveness plan had any impact on those educated numbers or did they just favor her because they were less-ignorant? 

[fredtoast]

(10-23-2018, 02:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: First of all, one can clearly see Fox News is not the source of the chart. Secondly, you'll have to excuse me if I decide not to attend the Fred Toast school of statistical gymnastics.

12% more of the population that made less than 30K voted for Clinton

9% more of the population that made less than 50K voted for Trump

And in every category above 50K the larger population voted for Trump. The size of the demographic is irrelevant. Folks that made more money voted for Trump at a higher level than voted for Clinton. 

Now you are playing your semantics game again.


Trumps "base" is the $50-$100K earners.  That is the only group where he got 50% of the vote and a margin of 4 points over Hillary.  People who made over $100K are less likely to vote for trump (48-49%) than the people who made $50-$100K (50%).

[*bfine32*]

(10-23-2018, 02:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is not a "fact" at all.  The group that is "most likely" to vote for Trump is the $50-$100K group where he got 50% of the vote and was 4 points ahead of Hillary.  In all the "more affluent" classes Trump drew a smaller percentage and Hillary drew more.


Like I said.  Learn to look at the numbers yourself instead of just repeating what FoxNews tells you.

This is headed down the same ridiculous "Fred Path" so this will be my last reply on the matter.

For of all the line you bolded that you were going to prove "wrong" stated the less money you made the more you favored Clinton. You tried to feebly counter this by pointing to folks on the high end of the spectrum where a larger percentage in each category voted for Trump and then somehow/someway the fact that Trump won with the largest voting population (50-99k) proves something.

Why did you not focus on the lower income numbers when talking about those who make less favored Clinton? And the feeble point I think you are failing to make can be disputed by Trump beating Hills by 1% in the 2nd highest category and 2% in the highest category.

FWIW, I will not rely on you or Fox News to explain to me how to read numbers. 

[fredtoast]

(10-23-2018, 02:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get your desire to fight tooth and nail to keep up the narrative that the Trump base is ignorant; however, you cannot dispute (I mean you've tried and you've failed) that as a voting populace, the poorer favored Hillary and the wealthier favored Trump. 

I am not disputing that the poor voted for Hillary because that was in their best interests.  Same reason the wealthy voted for Trump.

But Trumps "base" is the $50-$100K earners.  That is the only section where he got 50% of the votes and had a gap of 4 points over Hillary.  In the income brackets above that Trumps support declined and Hillary's increased.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(10-23-2018, 02:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So why depend on "money" to define level of education when those numbers are also available.

Wait, I think I know.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/


Trump’s margin among whites without a college degree is the largest among any candidate in exit polls since 1980. Two-thirds (67%) of non-college whites backed Trump, compared with just 28% who supported Clinton, resulting in a 39-point advantage for Trump among this group.

Due largely to the dramatic movement among whites with no college degree, the gap between college and non-college whites is wider in 2016 than in any past election dating to 1980.


Thought this was common knowledge.

Among whites, Trump won an overwhelming share of those without a college degree; and among white college graduates – a group that many identified as key for a potential Clinton victory – Trump outperformed Clinton by a narrow 4-point margin.

Why did you not paste the entire link paragraph and not just the part that supports you claim? So tell me which group did she actually out perform Trump with??

[Dill]

(10-23-2018, 01:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are you unaware that they break national voting results down by demographic.

As this chart clearly shows the less money one makes the more he/she favored Clinton,

I really thought this was common knowledge. Is income alone the only indicator of success?  No, but it is far and away the biggest indicator in this society and it damn sure is not an indicator of ignorance.

Easy bro. It is precisely because "they" breakdown results by demographic that I asked who uses "the successful" as a demographic.

Apparently no one.  And apparently, to the relief of Trump supporters, you are using it as the prime indicator of success and "not ignorance." 

 

[*bfine32*]

(10-23-2018, 06:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Among whites, Trump won an overwhelming share of those without a college degree; and among white college graduates – a group that many identified as key for a potential Clinton victory – Trump outperformed Clinton by a narrow 4-point margin.

Why did you not paste the entire link paragraph and not just the part that supports you claim? So tell me which group did she actually out perform Trump with??

I think everyone in this forum realizes why Fred does this; unfortunately, only a few have the integrity to call him out on such things.

But let someone with the Right take liberty with a post and you'll see about 15 sprained fingers boldly typing a rebuttal. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-23-2018, 06:34 PM)Dill Wrote: Easy bro. It is precisely because "they" breakdown results by demographic that I asked who uses "the successful" as a demographic.

Apparently no one.  And apparently, to the relief of Trump supporters,  you are using it as the prime indicator of success and "not ignorance." 

 

Did they use ignorant as a demographic? I both a chart showing the more successful in the demographic voted for Trump in an attempt to dispel the hateful  "ignorant folks vote for Trump" mantra and I'm met with "that doesn't count". 

I get it. You and others came up on the losing end and one of the ways you can ease your pain is to assert: "Well, the ignorant voted opposite of me." Save the hate. 

I didn't vote for Obama; yet he won 2 elections and never did I say "It's because folks less intelligent than I voted for him".

[Dill]

(10-23-2018, 06:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Did they use ignorant as a demographic? I both a chart showing the more successful in the demographic voted for Trump in an attempt to dispel the hateful  "ignorant folks vote for Trump" mantra and I'm met with "that doesn't count". 

I get it. You and others came up on the losing end and one of the ways you can ease your pain is to assert: "Well, the ignorant voted opposite of me." Save the hate. 

I didn't vote for Obama; yet he won 2 elections and never did I say "It's because folks less intelligent than I voted for him".

LOL did you just accuse me of "hate"?  Again?

So now it's "the more successful in the demographic", in the graph you posted after the fact.  There is no generic demographic of "the successful." There is no poll showing that X percent of blacks and y percent of Catholics and z percent of "the successful" voted for any candidate.

"Ignorant" is your term, not mine.  But Trump defenders/supporters are very sensitive to that charge. Why?

And of course you didn't say Obama won because less intelligent voters voted for him.

[*bfine32*]

(10-23-2018, 07:06 PM)Dill Wrote: 1. LOL did you just accuse me of "hate"?  Again?

2. So now it's "the more successful in the demographic", in the graph you posted after the fact.  There is no generic demographic of "the successful." There is no poll showing that X percent of blacks and y percent of Catholics and z percent of "the successful" voted for any candidate.

3. "Ignorant" is your term, not mine.  But Trump defenders/supporters are very sensitive to that charge. Why?

4. And of course you didn't say Obama won because less intelligent voters voted for him.

1. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

2. And there's no generic demographic of ignorant, but for some reason you had no issue with that distinction. Refer back to point 1

3.Ignorant was not my term; it was simply a term I chose to rebut. Then you chose to take issue with the rebuttal;not the original assertion of ignorant voters. Refer back to point 1.

4. Hell I didn't even call them ignorant. 

[fredtoast]

(10-23-2018, 06:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So tell me which group did she actually out perform Trump with??

You mean besides the entire population as a whole


College graduates backed Clinton by a 9-point margin (52%-43%), while those without a college degree backed Trump 52%-44%.  This is by far the widest gap in support among college graduates and non-college graduates in exit polls dating back to 1980.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(10-23-2018, 07:06 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL did you just accuse me of "hate"?  Again?

So now it's "the more successful in the demographic", in the graph you posted after the fact.  There is no generic demographic of "the successful." There is no poll showing that X percent of blacks and y percent of Catholics and z percent of "the successful" voted for any candidate.

"Ignorant" is your term, not mine.  But Trump defenders/supporters are very sensitive to that charge. Why?

And of course you didn't say Obama won because less intelligent voters voted for him.

Strange, but they really did. Almost at a clip of 2:1 vs Romney
Didn't finish HS that voted for Obama: 63-35

Romney actually lead with College Graduates by 52-47

And another strange similarity. Those that made more than $50k annually voted for Romney, Obama didn't win any of those higher income brackets.

But why does that matter?
You guys are the ones flinging the insults about how stoopid we are.

[fredtoast]

(10-23-2018, 07:21 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Romney actually lead with College Graduates by 52-47

Link?

My source says this

College graduates backed Obama over Romney by 50%-48%

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

[*bfine32*]

(10-23-2018, 07:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link?

My source says this

College graduates backed Obama over Romney by 50%-48%

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

I think Mike got it right with his last line: What does it matter?

The assertion was made here that Trump's base is ignorant, that was refuted, so a couple posters here took it upon themselves to show that it's true that Trump's base is ignorant. Yet when you illustrate their hate to them; they seem like they have no idea what you are talking about.

But don't worry: No one is going to take away your right to classify a bunch of people as ignorant; simply because their views are opposite yours. 

[Dill]

(10-23-2018, 07:21 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Strange, but they really did. Almost at a clip of 2:1 vs Romney
Didn't finish HS that voted for Obama: 63-35

Romney actually lead with College Graduates by 52-47

And another strange similarity. Those that made more than $50k annually voted for Romney, Obama didn't win any of those higher income brackets.

But why does that matter?
You guys are the ones flinging the insults about how stoopid we are.

In which post do I "fling insults" about how stoopid you are.

LOL so Obama didn't win the rich folks?

Both Romney and Trump seemed to have cornered the WM and WW with no HS degree market. What percentage of the electorate might that be?

[fredtoast]

(10-23-2018, 07:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think Mike got it right with his last line: What does it matter?

The assertion was made here that Trump's base is ignorant, that was refuted, so a couple posters here took it upon themselves to show that it's true that Trump's base is ignorant. Yet when you illustrate their hate to them; they seem like they have no idea what you are talking about.

But don't worry: No one is going to take away your right to classify a bunch of people as ignorant; simply because their views are opposite yours. 

Just to re-cap.

Calling Trump supporters uneducated is hate.

Calling Clinton supporters poor failures is not hate.

Pretty simple logic when viewed through the Breitbart filter.

[*bfine32*]

(10-23-2018, 07:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just to re-cap.

Calling Trump supporters uneducated is hate.

Calling Clinton supporters poor failures is not hate.

Pretty simple logic when viewed through the Breitbart filter.

The word used was ignorant, not uneducated. So yeah, I consider that hate; how about you? 

I never used the word failure. Name calling is more your thing. And as I said: No one is threatening your right to do so.

[fredtoast]

(10-23-2018, 07:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think Mike got it right with his last line: What does it matter?

That is pretty much the mantra of the Trump supporters when their false claims get pointed out.

They just don't care about the truth.

[fredtoast]

(10-23-2018, 07:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The word used was ignorant, not uneducated. So yeah, I consider that hate; how about you? 

I never used the word failure. Name calling is more your thing.  And as I said: No one is threatening your right to do so.

Semantic BS.  Insults are insults.