Jonathan Sawn did a good job responding to Trump's usual tactics of lying or pivoting. When Trump says "they say", he asks "who says that?"
He tries to push Trump on the Tulsa Rally and not pushing his followers to wear masks, to which Trump then goes on a tangent about the crowd side, falsely claiming that it was 12,000 even though the venue said 6,200) and then bragging on it being the highest rated Saturday program ever on Fox News. Swan strokes Trump's ego to get him back to the question, to which Trump then deflects again saying, "we have it under control".
Swan says "How? 1000 Americans are dying a day" to which Trump says "They are dying. That's true. It is what it is, but that doesn't mean we aren't doing every we can. It's under control as much as you can control it".
Swan asks if this is really as much as they can control. Trump looks off into the distance with blank look on his face, presumably trying to figure out how to respond before going on a 30 second rant about how the federal government gave governors what they needed but most governors did a bad job.
Swan moves on and asks if, after a week of big events being canceled, Trump would stick to his new message or do another 180 and call for things to be open again. Trump then starts blaming China before Swan says "and now it's in the US and you're the President".
They move on to testing where Trump goes on a rant about testing more than any country after being asked when all Americans will have access to same day testing, which led him to say that "people say you can test too much". Swan asks him who says that. Trump responds "read the manuals. Read the books". Swan says "what manuals? What books?". Trump tries to move away before Swan asks him again which books, but Trump cuts him off and starts ranting about how other countries test. Trumps keeps going on about how testing is complicated but Swan pushes him to answer the original question.
Swan then moves on to a new topic before Trump cuts him off and says that the US tests more than anyone. Swan then takes this opening to push him on his rhetoric. Trump says that when he took over, they didn't even have a test, to which Swan says "why would you? The virus didn't even exist".
Trump continues on talking about how we have more cases because we test more, but Swan stops him and says that deaths is a more important figure to him. Trump then pulls out his own charts showing deaths per case, but Swan pushes and says that if you look at death per capita, the US is doing worse than many countries. Trump says "you can't do that". Trump then accuses South Korea of lying about deaths. The exchange is in the video below
.@jonathanvswan: “Oh, you’re doing death as a proportion of cases. I’m talking about death as a proportion of population. That’s where the U.S. is really bad. Much worse than South Korea, Germany, etc.”@realdonaldtrump: “You can’t do that.”
Trump points to a few states where the number of deaths are going down, even though they're going up nationally. One of the states he says is Florida, which Swan immediately questions. Florida's deaths have skyrocketed. They didn't have any days with more than 77 deaths in June (only 5 above 50) where in July they had 14 days over 100, with some as high as 257. Trump claims it evened out (this was on July 28th) but Florida averaged 228 deaths a day for the rest of the month.
On the topic of Russian bounties, Trump said many people called it fake news and that he hasn't talked to Putin about it. He then tried to turn it to complaining about China and nuclear proliferation after Swan asked him if he believes the intelligence. Swan pushes him and he says the intel didn't reach his desk otherwise he would have done something with it. Swan asked him if he reads his intelligence briefs, to which Trump says he reads a lot and comprehends better than anyone and then goes on about how Indian and China are fighting and that takes up his time. Trump excused intel that Russia provided weapons to the Taliban by saying that the US armed the Taliban against Russia in the 80's. He then said Russia wouldn't get involved with Afghanistan because the last time they did they were the USSR, went bankrupt, and became Russia.
Trump said we have less troops in Afghanistan, even though that's not true. He also claimed that ISIS was 100% gone.
Swan moves on to the election, asking what it looks like for the sitting president to say he wouldn't commit to accepting the results of the election, to which Trump tried to say that Hillary writing a book about the election was the same thing. Trump says he have a "new phenomenon called mail in voting". Swan remarks "New? It's been here since the Civil War". What followed by a string of false claims which can be best summarized by PolitiFact
Quote:"They’re going to send tens of millions of ballots to California, all over the place."
This is misleading. Around 20 million people are registered to vote in California, but the statement mimics false claims he's made about California sending out ballots to "anyone living in the state, no matter who they are," falsely calling the election rigged.
In May, California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, ordered all counties to send out mail-in ballots, citing health concerns amid COVID-19. But a review of Newsom’s executive order shows only registered voters would receive vote-by-mail ballots, not to anyone "all over the place."
To register to vote in California, residents must be 18, U.S. citizens, not in state or federal prison or on parole for the conviction of a felony, and not declared mentally incompetent to vote by a court.
— Samantha Putterman
"Millions of ballots going, nobody even knows where they’re going."
This is wrong. There’s no evidence that states are randomly mailing millions of ballots without any idea where they’re going.
Most states require voters to apply for mail-in ballots, according to election law experts, with exceptions for states that already primarily vote by mail, and California, which plans to mail ballots to voters because of the COVID-19 pandemic.
— Samantha Putterman
"You look at some of the corruption having to do with universal mail-in voting. Absentee voting is OK. You have to apply, you have to go through a process. Absentee voting is good."
This is a misleading accusation and a false distinction. There is no objective difference between absentee voting and voting by mail.
In the states that allow broad use of mail ballots, there is no distinction in how a voter requests "absentee" ballots and other types of mail ballots. All mail ballots, regardless of how they are requested, are treated the same once they’re cast. They all require verification before being counted.
Election experts across the country have said that fraudulent mail-in voting is exceedingly rare.
The Brennan Center for Justice, a non-partisan law and public policy institute, found that Oregon – a state that votes primarily by mail – has sent out more than 100 million mail-in ballots since 2000, but has documented only about a dozen cases of proven fraud.
He goes on with a number of claims about Portland and unmarked federal agents, saying that it needs to be done to protect the families of the agents, that Portland's mayor would have been killed by the protestors, and that he does not support investigations into illegal detention of protestors.
He then responds to being asked about if he has met with any BLM activists by saying the first interaction we had with BLM was them wanting to "fry bacon". Asked about systemic racism, he goes on about achievements in the black community, saying he has done more than anyone other than Lincoln, and that what he has done was better than the Civil Rights Act.
On John Lewis and how history will remember him, Trump says "I don't know. I don't know him. He didn't come to my inauguration. I never met him." Asked if he finds him impressive, he can't say but says "he didn't come to my inauguration or state of the unions."
(08-04-2020, 04:19 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: On John Lewis and how history will remember him, Trump says "I don't know. I don't know him. He didn't come to my inauguration. I never met him." Asked if he finds him impressive, he can't say but says "he didn't come to my inauguration or state of the unions."
Trump is speaking the absolute TRUTH here. Lewis did not come to Trump's inauguration or his state of the union speeches.
Hard to say how a guy like that will be remembered by future historians, after refusing to support America.
(08-04-2020, 07:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm going to opt out so this doesn't become a circle jerk of liberals and allow the conservatives to provide some balance.
I think a lot of real conservatives don't like Trump.
But I'll be happy to speak for the Trump supporters: This was yet another example of GOTCHA journalism.
This whole "interview" was a trap to make Trump look unfocused, confused and ignorant by not letting him dodge questions.
(08-04-2020, 07:25 PM)Dill Wrote: I think a lot of real conservatives don't like Trump.
But I'll be happy to speak for the Trump supporters: This was yet another example of GOTCHA journalism.
This whole "interview" was a trap to make Trump look unfocused, confused and ignorant by not letting him dodge questions.
PS Good job Bpat, if you did that summary.
You mean to tell me that a Mother Jones and HuffPost lovechild of a cabal of liberal moderators running off conservative folk with its resultant lack of conservative voices in this here subforum is a conspiracy theory?
(08-04-2020, 07:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm going to opt out so this doesn't become a circle jerk of liberals and allow the conservatives to provide some balance.
Come on, you know they're just going make one solid, cogent point after another and all us liberals are just going to resort to calling them racist.
(08-04-2020, 07:55 PM)jason Wrote: The president fumbling with and trying to interpret graphs is disturbing. It's like he doesn't even try to prepare himself.
I think him referring to 150,000 dead Americans as 'it is what it is' is the most horrifying part of that entire disaster of an interview.
Like legitimate question; how does someone even TRY to defend that response? How can someone watch that interview and still have the audacity to say 'yep, that guy knows what the **** he's talking about'?
(08-04-2020, 07:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm going to opt out so this doesn't become a circle jerk of liberals and allow the conservatives to provide some balance.
They're struggling
Can someone tell this “reporter” 800 Americans are hospitalized every year with the flu. Can someone also remind him the swine flu hospitalized 300 thousand & infected 60 million under Obama & I don’t remember anyone fear mongering like this shill is doing
Of course many people pointed out that there were only 12k deaths in 19 months with H1N1 versus more than twice that PER month so far with Covid-19 after 6 months.
(08-04-2020, 10:42 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I think him referring to 150,000 dead Americans as 'it is what it is' is the most horrifying part of that entire disaster of an interview.
Like legitimate question; how does someone even TRY to defend that response? How can someone watch that interview and still have the audacity to say 'yep, that guy knows what the **** he's talking about'?
Read the manual...
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
I just got home from work. I only know what I've read, and it has been snippets here and there. I havent read anything in this thread. I'm gonna watch the interview in a few minutes to see if it's as bad as what people have been saying.....then I will read this thread. Wish me luck!
(08-05-2020, 12:17 AM)jmccracky Wrote: I just got home from work. I only know what I've read, and it has been snippets here and there. I havent read anything in this thread. I'm gonna watch the interview in a few minutes to see if it's as bad as what people have been saying.....then I will read this thread. Wish me luck!
Wow.....I'm 18 minutes into this. Its freaking bizarre. I keep pausing it to process what I am witnessing.
Many of you guys have my respect. That being the case it amazes me that you still find it shocking that anyone could support Trump over Biden. The POTUS contest has really become less about the candidate and more about the polices of their party. Trump is odious and a buffoon, but if you prefer the GOP agenda over the Dem agenda you're going to vote for him. If for no other reason than the next POTUS could potentially nominate three SCOTUS justices. If you stop viewing this as a candidate specific issue and more of a long game this isn't that difficult to understand. Many voters, on both sides, view this as a vote that will determine the future course of the country (more so than most anyways).
Of course some here would tell us that voting for any GOP candidate is objectively wrong. I'm sure their unbiased opinion is utterly persuasive.
(08-05-2020, 01:39 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Many of you guys have my respect. That being the case it amazes me that you still find it shocking that anyone could support Trump over Biden. The POTUS contest has really become less about the candidate and more about the polices of their party. Trump is odious and a buffoon, but if you prefer the GOP agenda over the Dem agenda you're going to vote for him. If for no other reason than the next POTUS could potentially nominate three SCOTUS justices. If you stop viewing this as a candidate specific issue and more of a long game this isn't that difficult to understand. Many voters, on both sides, view this as a vote that will determine the future course of the country (more so than most anyways).
Of course some here would tell us that voting for any GOP candidate is objectively wrong. I'm sure their unbiased opinion is utterly persuasive.
It's not that I disagree with Trump on everything. I have definitely read some things that were ridiculous regarding some of the Trump haters standpoint. But this interview really brought home that he is just not a great leader. He is totally divisive. More than Obama was. Trump is not fit to be president. But then again....here he is being president. I dont agree with the GOP platform, as a whole, and some of the Dem platform. I've voted Dem and Repub since 1994 since I was old enough to vote. I want a uniter....not a divider. Yes.....the media is bad at dividing us. I just can't vote for a guy like Trump that purposely tries to divide us. I dunno....my food for thought.
(08-05-2020, 01:07 AM)jmccracky Wrote: Wow.....I'm 18 minutes into this. Its freaking bizarre. I keep pausing it to process what I am witnessing.
The guy in charge, with the power to direct billions of dollars in resources to problems besetting the nation--or not--doesn't seem to understand what's happening in a nation torn apart by protests as it experiences the worst pandemic in 100 years. He has no idea what causes the protests, or the pandemic, to spread, and so he wants to send in the feds and open the schools--if maybe that will get him elected.
For Trump, the question of John Lewis' legacy doesn't recall a history of civil rights struggle and accomplishment, but only a memory of the guy who never came to Trump's inauguration. The question, of course, was about what others would think of Lewis, posterity, his place in history. But the guy didn't come to Trump's State of the Union speeches either, right, so how's THAT going down in history? Lewis wasn't the only civil rights leader anyway. There were "others." Besides Trump did more for "the blacks." Everyone knows that. So how is Trump going down in history. Shouldn't everyone really be contemplating that?
So if you are the kind of person who thinks of history as a kind of road map that shows you where you have come from, including all the wrong turns and dead ends, so you have some idea of how to negotiate those bends in the road of a still unmapped future, you have to be disturbed that the guy with the most power to influence that future, for better or worse, doesn't have much of a map. The only stops on it are places like his inauguration, some executive orders banning immigration, a really big military parade in France, and those "huge" summits with Kim. There's no Civil War, WW 2, Marshall Plan, Civil Rights struggle, wealth gap or global warming. No obligation to/responsibility for the WHOLE country.
The most deer-in-the-headlights moments came during the discussion of COVID-19. "In some of the categories we are lower than 'the world'. . . . Look here is the United States . . . You don't know that . . . But you don't know that. . . I have a very good relationship with the country . . . ." He just doesn't know how to compare data or manage information--how to read it or present it to others. He cannot look at graphs and see that other countries have successfully managed the virus while the US has let it get out of control. THE FREEKIN' PRESIDENT OF THE US is like an 8th grader trying give a speech he worked up 15 minutes before class, using torn out sheets of paper from his notebook rather than a PPT or even the blackboard. This is what Mattis, Bolton, and Kelly were telling us happens in daily briefings. The information doesn't ever get in to Trump's brain really. So it's "garbage out" when he talks about the continually improving pandemic situation. The presentation is ad hoc, all smoke.
It is slowly dawning over more and more people (especially millions of parents and teachers set to return to school) that the bus doesn't drive itself, and it matters greatly whether the driver knows how to drive.
(08-05-2020, 01:39 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Many of you guys have my respect. That being the case it amazes me that you still find it shocking that anyone could support Trump over Biden. The POTUS contest has really become less about the candidate and more about the polices of their party.
ad1, likewise, ad 2, I personally could never vote for a person like Trump, never have I felt that strongly about my agenda that I could overloook that. I'd vote for a conservative candidate any day if my alternative was some progressive version of Trump. It's easier for me to say when it's the other way round for sure, but this person... I could never overlook all that. And it IS important what person is on the ticket.
My agenda might just be that I want a competent and intelligent person running things, one that accepts norms and democracy and decency and everything that makes the western model work, and to try to avoid a descent into ridiculousness, utter ineptness and a hate-filled idiocracy. Which, imho, is what Trump provides. More conservative judges etc. won't heal that.
I know America is a different cup of thea than what I personally experienced, I am not shocked that someone would vote for Trump, but it doesn't go as far as that this has my complete and total understanding.
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