Trump tweets skepticism about 3D-printed guns. But his administration cleared the way

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/31/3-d-printable-guns-donald-trump/870557002/

Quote:WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump said Tuesday he's "looking into" easy access to blueprints for 3D-printable guns, saying in a tweet that "doesn't seem to make much sense."


Trump's tweet comes less than 24 hours before that technology becomes widely available under a legal settlement his own administration reached earlier this year with Defense Distributed, a Texas-based nonprofit that will release blueprints for guns online starting Wednesday. 

"The age of the downloadable gun begins," Defense Distributed stated on its site after its settlement with the State Department. Its founder,
Cody Wilson, tweeted a photograph of a grave marked "American gun control."

Under the legal agreement, the company will be able to post downloadable instructions for 3D-printable guns starting Wednesday, making such firearms available to anyone with the right machine and materials. All 3D-printed guns will be untraceable, and since you can make them yourself, no background check is required.

That prospect has startled gun control advocates, who say it could worsen the epidemic of gun violence in the U.S. and make it easier for terrorists to gain access to a raft of deadly firearms. Eight states and the District of Columbia sued the Trump administration on Monday seeking to block the 3D-printed weapons from becoming available.

Cody Wilson, the founder of Defense Distributed, shows a plastic handgun made on a 3D printer at his home in Austin, Texas. (Photo: Jay Janner, AP)

“The Trump Administration’s sickening NRA giveaway undermines the very foundations of public safety," House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said in a statement Tuesday.  "Metal detectors and other security measures will be completely useless against the flood of undetectable and untraceable ‘ghost guns’ that the GOP is inviting into our schools, workplaces, airports and public buildings." 

In his tweet, Trump said he had already talked to the NRA about the issue. The White House did not immediately respond to questions about what steps, if any, the president was considering.  

An NRA spokesperson also did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Quote:
[/url]Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump





I am looking into 3-D Plastic Guns being sold to the public. Already spoke to NRA, doesn’t seem to make much sense!
8:03 AM - Jul 31, 2018

• 
  32.7K
• 
  [url=https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1024264286418489345]21K people are talking about this
  

Twitter Ads info and privacy



Secretary of State Mike Pompeo suggested last week that he would review the issue, in response to questions from lawmakers on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. 

But a State Department official said Tuesday that Pompeo was not planning to take further action on the issue. The Department of State has completed its obligations under its settlement with Defense Distributed, said the official, who was not authorized to speak on the record.

"The decision to settle the case was made in the interest of the security and foreign policy of the United States and in consultation with the Department of Justice," the State Department source said.

He's a piece of work...that's for sure.

[Au165]

What could go wrong with a weapon that can pass through metal detectors and is untraceable?

[Benton]

(07-31-2018, 03:15 PM)Au165 Wrote: What could go wrong with a weapon that can pass through metal detectors and is untraceable?

You can carry a plastic knife through a metal detector.

[Au165]

(07-31-2018, 03:51 PM)Benton Wrote: You can carry a plastic knife through a metal detector.

Interesting, we hand plastic knives out with your food in the airport food court. Maybe we should put plastic guns in happy meals haha. Seriously though, I meant weapon in regards to guns specifically in this context. The reality is this is a horrible idea and I'm not really sure hoe anyone doesn't see that.

[Benton]

(07-31-2018, 03:53 PM)Au165 Wrote: Interesting, we hand plastic knives out with your food in the airport food court. Maybe we should put plastic guns in happy meals haha. Seriously though, I meant weapon in regards to guns specifically in this context. The reality is this is a horrible idea and I'm not really sure hoe anyone doesn't see that.

I'm ok with 3d printed guns. I don't think they're anything better or worse than what's already covered by existing laws, like the '88 undetectable firearms act. Hell, I'm form the South. Give me a few minutes in a hardware store and I can Macgyver you up some kind of firearm. 

Our problems aren't caused by firearms, they're caused by crappy people. Nobody wants to address that with mandatory gun licensing (training), less access to the mentally ill, etc., but that's the fix. 

[Au165]

(07-31-2018, 04:23 PM)Benton Wrote: I'm ok with 3d printed guns. I don't think they're anything better or worse than what's already covered by existing laws, like the '88 undetectable firearms act. Hell, I'm form the South. Give me a few minutes in a hardware store and I can Macgyver you up some kind of firearm. 

Our problems aren't caused by firearms, they're caused by crappy people. Nobody wants to address that with mandatory gun licensing (training), less access to the mentally ill, etc., but that's the fix. 

I can mass produce these guns though with precision vs your hardware store example which will offer low quality and most likely be far more time consuming and hard to replicate. These guns are relatively reliable reportedly with designs that will only get better the more people tinker with them. For the cost of $200 I can get a 3D printer capable of making these guns and then each additional gun after that is $25 in materials. You don't think organized crime members aren't interested in cheap untraceable guns that they can carry into any "secure" facility in the U.S.? Why do we have background checks if we are going to allow this since any nut with a 3D printer can just make his own gun?

It literally undermines having any of our current gun laws as non of them are enforceable if this is allowed to go on.

[*michaelsean*]

Well if the NRA is indeed in the pockets of gun manufacturers I would think they’d be opposed to homemade guns.

[Au165]

Remember here, this isn't about what these 3D guns are today with current equipment it is where they will be in two years. Look how advanced and cheap 3D printers have gotten in two years. Today they are cheap funny looking plastic guns, but with the advances in that industry what they can produce in the very near future is why this needs stopped now.

[*Nately120*]

We just need to make sure more good guys have more 3d printed guns.

[Benton]

(07-31-2018, 04:42 PM)Au165 Wrote: I can mass produce these guns though with precision vs your hardware store example which will offer low quality and most likely be far more time consuming and hard to replicate. These guns are relatively reliable reportedly with designs that will only get better the more people tinker with them. For the cost of $200 I can get a 3D printer capable of making these guns and then each additional gun after that is $25 in materials. You don't think organized crime members aren't interested in cheap untraceable guns that they can carry into any "secure" facility in the U.S.? Why do we have background checks if we are going to allow this since any nut with a 3D printer can just make his own gun?

It literally undermines having any of our current gun laws as non of them are enforceable if this is allowed to go on.

Maybe, I dunno. I did a few stories on them when this was a hotter topic as the Gigabot and the renewal of the 88 Act were pretty close together in a calendar year. Maybe in the last 4-5 years they've improved, but most of the people I spoke with who had constructed one, gunsmiths, engineers, etc., all said the same thing: use it only if you really want a face full of plastic shrapnel.  I'm sure they will get to the point where you can make a plastic weapon at home and use it reliably. But we aren't there yet. If we were, traditional gun manufacturers — looking to cut cost — would already be doing it.

As to the background checks, they're largely ineffective as I can sell you a gun out of my trunk in most states. Cash. Also, I don't think most states prohibit you making your own firearm. From the ATF:

Quote:No, a license is not required to make a firearm solely for personal use. However, a license is required to manufacture firearms for sale or distribution. The law prohibits a person from assembling a non–sporting semiautomatic rifle or shotgun from 10 or more imported parts, as well as firearms that cannot be detected by metal detectors or x–ray machines. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and advance approval by ATF. 

[18 U.S.C. 922(o), (p) and ®; 26 U.S.C. 5822; 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-individual-need-license-make-firearm-personal-use

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Homemade guns/bombs were always relatively easy to make for anyone with the desire to do so.

As Benton mentioned in the post above me, most states already allowed you to legally make your own gun.



Allowing this to happen isn't automatically the same as agreeing with it if the law supports allowing it to happen. Just like a judge might not agree with a decision they make, but if it's how the law is, they need to follow through with it despite their personal feelings or opinions (at least the good ones).

[*Nately120*]

I can't say I've looked into this very much, but wouldn't the right to print your own firearm be protected under the 2nd Amendment?

[GMDino]

(07-31-2018, 04:42 PM)Au165 Wrote: I can mass produce these guns though with precision vs your hardware store example which will offer low quality and most likely be far more time consuming and hard to replicate. These guns are relatively reliable reportedly with designs that will only get better the more people tinker with them. For the cost of $200 I can get a 3D printer capable of making these guns and then each additional gun after that is $25 in materials. You don't think organized crime members aren't interested in cheap untraceable guns that they can carry into any "secure" facility in the U.S.? Why do we have background checks if we are going to allow this since any nut with a 3D printer can just make his own gun?

It literally undermines having any of our current gun laws as non of them are enforceable if this is allowed to go on.

This is my thinking.  The NRA will support it (so Trump will talk a bit and then agree with them) because it will allow them to ask why we need to register ANY guns when people can just print them out.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-31-2018, 07:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: This is my thinking.  The NRA will support it (so Trump will talk a bit and then agree with them) because it will allow them to ask why we need to register ANY guns when people can just print them out.

Won’t this hurt gun manufacturers?

[*Nately120*]

(07-31-2018, 07:43 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Won’t this hurt gun manufacturers?

Only if people are confident in taking on a tyrannical government with plastic guns when assault rifles are so legal. Everything seems to lead people in this country to conclude that more guns are the answer as it is, so why would this be different?

Everything is fine? Buy guns, guns made this country great.
Everything is NOT fine? Buy guns to keep you safe when the shite hits the fan.
No shootings happened? Guns keep people from shooting you and others, make sure you have lots of guns.
A shooting happened? Buy guns to keep you safe from crazy shooters, also buy the gun the shooter used before (insert democrat) makes it illegal.
Anyone can use a 3D printer to make plastic guns? Buy more real guns to protect yourself from people with plastic guns.

If I'm the NRA I run with this story and let everyone know the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a plastic gun is a good guy with a real gun.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-31-2018, 08:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Only if people are confident in taking on a tyrannical government with plastic guns when assault rifles are so legal. Everything seems to lead people in this country to conclude that more guns are the answer as it is, so why would this be different?

Everything is fine? Buy guns, guns made this country great.
Everything is NOT fine? Buy guns to keep you safe when the shite hits the fan.
No shootings happened? Guns keep people from shooting you and others, make sure you have lots of guns.
A shooting happened? Buy guns to keep you safe from crazy shooters, also buy the gun the shooter used before (insert democrat) makes it illegal.
Anyone can use a 3D printer to make plastic guns? Buy more real guns to protect yourself from people with plastic guns.

If I'm the NRA I run with this story and let everyone know the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a plastic gun is a good guy with a real gun.

Copyright that. I think you just came up with their marketing campaign.

[Au165]

(07-31-2018, 05:22 PM)Benton Wrote: Maybe, I dunno. I did a few stories on them when this was a hotter topic as the Gigabot and the renewal of the 88 Act were pretty close together in a calendar year. Maybe in the last 4-5 years they've improved, but most of the people I spoke with who had constructed one, gunsmiths, engineers, etc., all said the same thing: use it only if you really want a face full of plastic shrapnel.  I'm sure they will get to the point where you can make a plastic weapon at home and use it reliably. But we aren't there yet. If we were, traditional gun manufacturers — looking to cut cost — would already be doing it.
-make-firearm-personal-use

We have come light years in 4-5 years. In the last couple years specifically carbon fiber 3D printers have been released that can print material as strong as steel. This means that a carbon fiber gun is strong enough to produce results similar to a traditional gun in terms of reliability could be printed. The costs of the machines are still in the 30k-40k range, however when you look at where plastic printers were 4-5 years it is not crazy to think we will see them at a price point for home users in that same 4-5 year range. There are cheaper versions out already for 8k than can do a slightly weaker carbon fiber, however it is still exponentially stronger than the plastic people mention when talking about 3D guns being unreliable.


I'm not worried about what the capabilities are today, I worry how quickly they will evolve and what they will become. That is why it's always best to get out in front of this stuff. I am glad to see the courts recognized this last night. 

[Belsnickel]

(07-31-2018, 07:43 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Won’t this hurt gun manufacturers?

I've thought about that, and I can see a way firearms manufacturers will capitalize on this. They probably already have R&D teams working on designs for 3D printer firearms as well as working on different materials that can be used in a 3D printer that would be better for making them. They could sell these products if it becomes allowable. Just like unique design traits for a Glock or SIG Sauer, they could make and copyright designs for 3D printing that they could sell.

[*bfine32*]

This was discussed over the weekend as well and it does present a ideological dilemma. This guy was on a conservative network and was getting grill over this (seems ironic the conservative was sort of being against the 2nd Amendment). The host once asked. Would he (the creator of the download) feel any responsible if someone used his gun for terror (ect...). I thought that was one of the most ridiculous questions asked.

Should an automaker feel responsible if some drunk-driver kills a family? To continue with the dilemma there are liberals also opposed to this practice; this paints them as anti-1st Amendment.

[Dill]

(08-06-2018, 02:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This was discussed over the weekend as well and it does present a ideological dilemma. This guy was on a conservative network and was getting grill over this (seems ironic the conservative was sort of being against the 2nd Amendment). The host once asked. Would he (the creator of the download) feel any responsible if someone used his gun for terror (ect...). I thought that was one of the most ridiculous questions asked.

Should an automaker feel responsible if some drunk-driver kills a family? To continue with the dilemma there are liberals also opposed to this practice; this paints them as anti-1st Amendment.

Profit needs to be separate from responsibility if our economy is to function effectively.