Trumps Immigration Executive Order

[xxlt]

(01-31-2017, 08:38 PM)6andcounting Wrote: The reason why I asked is because you could have been trying to argue anything by just posting lists of things that are deadly, and I wanted to be able to understand and address your specific point. 

Most people get pissed off at one time or another, but to the point of joining a religious zealot mass murder cult is another thing. 

Trump justifies  his position by saying we know countries X,Y,Z have terror problems and we can't vet a innocent refugee from ISIS. If people previously not part of ISIS in their home countries come to America and get radicalized into to a sleeper lone wolf attack, that just gives Trump evidence that banning some countries is the best way to keep America safe. 

Wasn't trying to be obtuse. I thought the argument was clear from the context of our exchange.


Regarding the rest of your post, we can agree to disagree I suppose.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Maybe it has something to do with that Iraqi refugee in Houston that was caught trying to build bombs to set off in Galleria Mall?
Who was brought in on Obama's watch.

[Griever]

(02-01-2017, 09:07 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Maybe it has something to do with that Iraqi refugee in Houston that was caught trying to build bombs to set off in Galleria Mall?
Who was brought in on Obama's watch.

maybe not

cheeto n chief gave no justification other than "i said i was geting all the muslims out during the campaign, so thats what im doing"

[xxlt]

Mike M (the other one)Maybe it has something to do with that Iraqi refugee in Houston that was caught trying to build bombs to set off in Galleria Mall?
Who was brought in on Obama's watch.

Spot on. After we clean up the Muslims because one bomb maker means they are all bomb makers, we clean up the guys that look like this:



and this:



and this:



A truck will be in your neighborhood soon. Please get on in an orderly fashion. It is for your own good. Let freedom ring!

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-01-2017, 10:05 AM)xxlt Wrote: Mike M (the other one)Maybe it has something to do with that Iraqi refugee in Houston that was caught trying to build bombs to set off in Galleria Mall?
Who was brought in on Obama's watch.

Spot on. After we clean up the Muslims because one bomb maker means they are all bomb makers, we clean up the guys that look like this:



and this:



and this:



A truck will be in your neighborhood soon. Please get on in an orderly fashion. It is for your own good. Let freedom ring!

Thank you for making an excellent point. We need to clean up our own backyard before letting more in.

[Au165]

(02-01-2017, 12:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Thank you for making an excellent point. We need to clean up our own backyard before letting more in.

You can never prevent people from trying only stop them from doing it. Think about school shootings, many have been planned but luckily we have been getting better at stopping them from happening. "Cleaning up our own backyard" will never happen because on any given day some nut can decide he wants to blow something up, Muslim or not.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-01-2017, 01:33 PM)Au165 Wrote: You can never prevent people from trying only stop them from doing it. Think about school shootings, many have been planned but luckily we have been getting better at stopping them from happening. "Cleaning up our own backyard" will never happen because on any given day some nut can decide he wants to blow something up, Muslim or not.

*Sighs 

[Aquapod770]

(02-01-2017, 10:05 AM)xxlt Wrote: Mike M (the other one)Maybe it has something to do with that Iraqi refugee in Houston that was caught trying to build bombs to set off in Galleria Mall?
Who was brought in on Obama's watch.

Spot on. After we clean up the Muslims because one bomb maker means they are all bomb makers, we clean up the guys that look like this:



and this:



and this:



A truck will be in your neighborhood soon. Please get on in an orderly fashion. It is for your own good. Let freedom ring!

You still haven't actually read it have you?  

[GMDino]

Again this could go under the "Do lies matter" thread

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/30/the-number-of-people-affected-by-trumps-travel-ban-about-90000/?utm_term=.3c6f69a775ed

Quote:The number of people affected by Trump’s travel ban: About 90,000



White House press secretary Sean Spicer defended the actions that led to a 5-year-old boy being detained at a U.S. airport for hours following President Trump's immigration ban. (Reuters)

“Only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning.”
— President Trump, tweet, Jan, 30, 2017

“Remember we’re talking about a universe of 109 people. There were 325,000 people that came into this country over a 24 hour period from another country. 109 of them were stopped for additional screening.”
— White House press secretary Sean Spicer, press briefing, Jan. 30, 2017

President Trump and his aides love to cite a small number and a big number in order to minimize the impact of the president’s executive order suspending the visas of citizens of seven countries.

But these figures are incredibly misleading, so let’s go through the math.

The Facts

First of all, the “325,000” figure is pretty meaningless because the number of people who arrive in the United States on a given day isn’t the issue. The question is how many people from these countries have been affected.

The “109” number is old and rather dubious. For instance, it does not reflect how many people were prevented from even boarding a plane. According to the Department of Homeland Security, 348 people were denied boarding from the issuance of the executive order on Friday through 6 p.m. on Sunday.

An additional 392 green-card holders have been processed and admitted to the United States, the agency says. Originally, the White House had said that green-card holders would also be blocked from entering, but it reversed itself on Sunday under political pressure.

Officials have not responded to repeated requests for an updated number on the number of people detained at U.S. airports. However, the Daily Beast reported that an additional 200 to 250 people were denied entry once their flights landed — and they were part of a larger pool of 735 people at ports of entry who could have been barred from entering the United States.

A Google spreadsheet tracking the experience of Iranian travelers has documented the travails of nearly 300 people, with many describing significant delays or negotiation even if they were allowed into the United States.

But all of these numbers fail to provide the full picture. The real number is about 90,000.


According to State Department statistics, that’s how many people received either nonimmigrantor immigrant visas from the seven affected countries in fiscal year 2015. That’s the most recent data available, and different types of visas (such as student, business and tourism visas) are available for different lengths of time, but the figure serves as a usable proxy for the likely universe of people affected by Trump’s travel ban.

(Moreover, the data does not include potentially tens of thousands of people who are dual-citizens, such as Dutch-Iranians or German-Iraqis, who also are impacted by the order. The administration appears to have carved out exceptions for dual-nationals from the United Kingdom and Canada, but not other countries.)

The executive order means that visa holders will not be able to travel to the United States for at least 90 days. Or, if they are in the United States currently, they will not be able to leave and assume that they can return before the travel suspension ends.

Here’s the breakdown by country:

Quote:

Iran: 35,363 nonimmigrant visas, 7,179 immigrant visas
Iraq: 13,499 nonimmigrant visas, 2,010 immigrant visas
Syria: 10,061 nonimmigrant visas, 1,901 immigrant visas
Sudan: 5,080 nonimmigrant visas, 1,642 immigrant visas
Yemen: 4,525 nonimmigrant visas, 3,143 immigrant visas
Libya: 3,303 nonimmigrant visa, 272 immigrant visas
Somalia: 331 nonimmigrant visas, 1,078 immigrant visas

The Pinocchio Test

The Trump White House’s figures on the scope of the travel ban are ludicrously low. The universe of people likely affected by the travel suspension is around 90,000 — not 109. The White House should also not use the overall daily number of travelers as a comparison.

Four Pinocchios

[*Nately120*]

(02-01-2017, 10:05 AM)xxlt Wrote: Mike M (the other one)Maybe it has something to do with that Iraqi refugee in Houston that was caught trying to build bombs to set off in Galleria Mall?
Who was brought in on Obama's watch.

Spot on. After we clean up the Muslims because one bomb maker means they are all bomb makers, we clean up the guys that look like this:



and this:



and this:



A truck will be in your neighborhood soon. Please get on in an orderly fashion. It is for your own good. Let freedom ring!

It's high time we arrest Kevin Nealon, so I'm with ya!

[Belsnickel]

Just got home from a church group and one of the other members has worked at State for 15 years. She deals with getting children here that are being adopted from other countries. Her discussing the stranded, orphaned children as a result of this was heartbreaking. She further described some of the info from cables over there, like a now stateless family from Jordan who had gone through all of the processes and turned in their Jordanian paperwork on Friday as they were going to be headed here for a better life. They had sold everything, have nothing left for them in Jordan, butbare now stranded and stateless there as a result of the EO.

[GMDino]

(02-01-2017, 10:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just got home from a church group and one of the other members has worked at State for 15 years. She deals with getting children here that are being adopted from other countries. Her discussing the stranded, orphaned children as a result of this was heartbreaking. She further described some of the info from cables over there, like a now stateless family from Jordan who had gone through all of the processes and turned in their Jordanian paperwork on Friday as they were going to be headed here for a better life. They had sold everything, have nothing left for them in Jordan, butbare now stranded and stateless there as a result of the EO.

As I said Matt, it was poorly thought out and implemented even worse.

This administration doesn't care about humanity unless that humanity agrees with them and their predetermined world view.

[*wildcats forever*]

(02-01-2017, 11:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: As I said Matt, it was poorly thought out and implemented even worse.

This administration doesn't care about humanity unless that humanity agrees with them and their predetermined world view.

Can't wait til these guys start playing with their military toys.....

[GMDino]

(02-01-2017, 11:22 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Can't wait til these guys start playing with their military toys.....

I was reading about Iran making the missile tests and there is some confusion on what they did and what they were allowed to do, but don't think for a minute that the current administration is concerned about nuance or what really happened when they promise to kick some ass and watch the armchair militia stroke their guns in appreciation. 

[xxlt]

(02-01-2017, 10:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just got home from a church group and one of the other members has worked at State for 15 years. She deals with getting children here that are being adopted from other countries. Her discussing the stranded, orphaned children as a result of this was heartbreaking. She further described some of the info from cables over there, like a now stateless family from Jordan who had gone through all of the processes and turned in their Jordanian paperwork on Friday as they were going to be headed here for a better life. They had sold everything, have nothing left for them in Jordan, butbare now stranded and stateless there as a result of the EO.

A friend relayed a similar story about a family her temple is sponsoring. They aren't from one of the 7 countries on the list, but they are not allowed to come right now because they are refugees. So, even the 90,000 number Dino cited is an underestimate. I wonder if with all the money Trump is saving from eliminating useless government he is going to have someone redo the Statue of Liberty? The inscription at the bottom can read, "Piss off! I got mine!" and the torch in her hand replaced with a singular extended finger with a Tiffany ring on it.

[Belsnickel]

(02-02-2017, 05:24 AM)xxlt Wrote: A friend relayed a similar story about a family her temple is sponsoring. They aren't from one of the 7 countries on the list, but they are not allowed to come right now because they are refugees. So, even the 90,000 number Dino cited is an underestimate. I wonder if with all the money Trump is saving from eliminating useless government he is going to have someone redo the Statue of Liberty? The inscription at the bottom can read, "Piss off! I got mine!" and the torch in her hand replaced with a singular extended finger with a Tiffany ring on it.

The person I know also said there is a gag order on them about this where they can't talk to press or Congress about any of what is going on. She said while some of the communication shutdowns were common from a transition standpoint, that what is going on now is unprecedented from her tenure.

[GMDino]

I suppose 13 years of vetting isn't "extreme" enough.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Assali-Family-Syria-Donald-Trump-Vote-Allentown-Immigration-Ban-Travel-Order-412238593.html

Quote:A Pennsylvania family fighting to have their relatives return to the United States after they were detained at Philadelphia International Airport and sent back overseas under the immigration order told "NBC Nightly News" that they supported Donald Trump for president.

“I understand he wants to make America safe,” Sarmad Assali said. "We're all on with this. I definitely want to be in a safe place. But people need us and we need to be there for them."


Assali and her husband, Dr. Ghassan Assali, who has a dentistry practice and received his degree from New York University, are originally from Syria but have been living in the United States for more than 20 years.

Assali's two brothers, their wives and their two children initiated their immigration attempts in 2003 while living in Syria. In December 2016, they were approved to join Assali and her husband in Allentown after the couple bought and furnished a home for them.


But early Saturday morning, after they landed at Philadelphia International Airport, Assali's relatives were detained. They were then sent on an 18-hour flight back overseas.

The detainment and deportation occurred only hours after the president signed an executive order that immediately restricted travel from seven predominantly Muslim countries, temporarily halted the refugee program and indefinitely blocked refugees from Syria.


"Two security guards were waiting for them," Assali said. "They took them. They said, 'Are you Syrians?' They said, 'Yes.' They said, 'Come with us.'"

Assali's relatives, who are all Orthodox Christians, had visas and proof of green cards. The six Syrians were told they had to go back on the next flight and return to the Middle East, according to Assali. The next day, White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus announced that the order would not extend to green card holders.

They went on an 18-hour flight back to Doha and are currently in Damascus, according to the Assali family. One of Assali's relatives has heart problems and was given oxygen.

Tawfik Assali, the 21-year-old son of one of the deported Syrians, told NBC News he came to the United States three years ago and was waiting for his mother to join him.

"I was one hour away from hugging her," he said. "Seeing her."

Hours after the six Syrians were sent back home, a federal judge granted an injunction on the order in response to a request filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and other legal organizations. While the stay blocks anyone with a valid visa who is being held at airports from being deported, it only applies to those currently within the U.S., not anyone who tries to come to the U.S. going forward.

The six Syrians remain in Damascus. Joseph Hohenstein, an attorney for the Assali family, told NBC10 Monday they were denied a resolution that would bring them back to Allentown. Lawyers from the ACLU of Pennsylvania, HIAS Pennsylvania and the Philadelphia Chapter of the American Immigration Lawyers Association filed a federal lawsuit Tuesday on behalf of the families.[/url]

A crowdfunding campaign has been created for the family, which liquidated its assets in order to pay for visas, security screenings and other legal documents that were issued before their planned departure to the U.S.


“This poor family sold everything and used those funds for this trip and now that’s gone,” said Joseph Hohenstein, an attorney who is helping on the case. “If they ever make it here they will be coming with not a penny to their names.”

On Sunday, Ghassan Assali appeared alongside Gov. Tom Wolf decrying Trump’s executive order.

"America is not America," Assali said. "Like ISIS now, they ask, 'Are you Christian? What do you believe?' And if they are not saying what they believe, they kick you out and they cut your head off. So America, same thing. They ask you are you Muslim? You've got to change your religion. Thank you."
[font=Roboto, Arial, ​sans-serif]Trump Immigration Order Triggers Protests Across US[url=http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/national-international/Images-From-Airport-Protests-Against-Trump-Executive-Order-412059543.html][/font]
His son, Joseph, is a sophomore at Temple University studying biology and Spanish. The family lives in a well-established Syrian and Lebanese community in Allentown that dates back more than 100 years, Hohenstein said.

The community is predominately Christian and houses several churches.

Despite what happened to the Assalis, not everyone in their community disagrees with Trump. NBC News spoke with Rev. Anthony Sabbagh, an immigrant who voted for Trump partly because of his promise to make national security a top priority.

"I admire a president that protects his people and tries to make America safe," Sabbagh said.
In her interview with NBC News, Sarmad Assali had a question for Trump.

"Why?" she asked. "Where is your human side to send somebody to a war zone?"

Editor's Note: A conversation on Wednesday with an attorney for the Assali family clarified they did not vote for President Donald Trump, although they could legally vote and did support him.

[xxlt]

According to Robert Reich the pre-Trump vetting process here was the best and most thorough in the world - and there was never a single problem with anyone who went through it. So, why change it? Another boogie man paranoia propaganda move - but we're crazy for pointing out the facts and questioning the emperor's nudity.

[GMDino]

Again, Under "Does Lying Matter" or here?  Hard to tell.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kellyann-conway-bowling-green-massacre_us_58940d66e4b09bd304baa78a

Quote:Kellyanne Conway Literally Fabricated A Massacre To Justify Trump’s Immigration Ban
Um, the “Bowling Green Massacre” never happened.





Kellyanne Conway, an adviser to President Donald Trump, cited a nonexistent massacre to justify his highly controversial immigration ban. 
Speaking to Chris Matthews on MSNBC on Thursday night, Conway said: 

.@KellyannePolls says that 2 Iraqi refugees "were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green massacre."
(There was no such massacre.) pic.twitter.com/sD3Nnb5xfE

— Joe Sonka (@joesonka) February 3, 2017

Quote:“I bet it’s brand-new information to people that President Obama had a six-month ban on the Iraqi refugee program after two Iraqis came here to this country, were radicalized and were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green massacre. Most people don’t know that because it didn’t get covered.”

It also never happened.


Conway, who last month described the Trump administration’s spin as “alternative facts,” appears to be referring to an incident in 2011 when two Iraqi refugees were arrested in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Mohanad Shareef Hammadi and Waad Ramadan Alwan believed they were sending money and weapons to al Qaeda in Iraq when in fact, they were caught in an FBI sting operation. 


While Hammadi and Alwan were convicted in 2013 of terrorism and are currently imprisoned, there was no massacre in Bowling Green nor were they accused of planning or attempting one.


There was also no “ban” on the refugee program. As Business Insider reported, the Obama administration delayed processing refugees as it expanded screening measures; refugees already in the country were re-screened. Iraqi refugees continued to enter the country, just at a slower pace. 


Soon after Conway cited it, “Bowling Green Massacre” began trending on Twitter: 

Quote:[/url]
Alex Amadeo ???? @Irelay
RT if you died in the Bowling Green Massacre.
10:49 PM - 2 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:Quinn Sutherland @ReelQuinn
“I learned about the Bowling Green Massacre from my boyfriend George… George Glass.”
11:42 PM - 2 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:Ryan Gregson @dreemteeth
We were told to #neverforget, but we forgot! We completely forgot the bowling green massacre!
12:27 AM - 3 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:Jason O. Gilbert 

@gilbertjasono
Mark Wahlberg screaming at his agent, “I WANT A FAHCKIN' BOWLING GREEN MASSACRE SCRIPT YESTERDAY!"
11:40 PM - 2 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:Ashley @loudined
"Bowling Green Massacre"
12:16 AM - 3 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:Cynn @n_cynn
so sad to hear about the bowling green massacre, so soon after the lacrosse genocide
12:27 AM - 3 Feb 2017

Quote:David Waldman @KagroX
#NeverRemember #BowlingGreenMassacre
10:28 PM - 2 Feb 2017

Quote:mormonLIBERALmafia @VoteMorales
More people would have attended the @realDonaldTrump inauguration but they all died in the Bowling Green Massacre. Sad.
12:27 AM - 3 Feb 2017

Quote:Victory In Love @VictoryInLove
@tonyposnanski Footage of the bowling green massacre.
11:59 PM - 2 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:Jen Statsky 

@jenstatsky
Devastated to learn that Manti Te'o's girlfriend was one of the victims lost in the Bowling Green Massacre.
12:02 AM - 3 Feb 2017

Quote:Tony Posnanski 

@tonyposnanski
For every RT this tweet gets I will personally donate one imaginary dollar to the victims of the Bowling Green Massacre.
11:51 PM - 2 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:netw3rk 

@netw3rk
The Bowling Green Massacre was a very serious massacre that did an amazing job of massacring and is getting recognized more and more
11:17 PM - 2 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:Dave Lozo 

@davelozo
Bowling Green Massacre
11:10 PM - 2 Feb 2017

Quote:Simon Maloy 

@SimonMaloy
the Bowling Green Massacre sounds like some sports thing from the 20s that George Will knows too much about
11:06 PM - 2 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:Alec MacGillis 

@AlecMacGillis
One still shudders to think how bad the Bowling Green massacre would've been if not for the heroic intervention of Fred Douglass.
11:15 PM - 2 Feb 2017

• 
  

Quote:Mike Drucker 

@MikeDrucker
Thank you, @KellyannePolls for reminding us about the famous Bowling Green Massacre, which occurred on February 30th at 13:00.
11:14 PM - 2 Feb 2017

Quote:Alex Alvarez 

@soalexgoes
*takes a long drag off cigarette*

ay, lads. i remember the bowling green massacre as if it were just made up today.
11:06 PM - 2 Feb 2017

• [url=https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=827367722145046528]
  

[djam]

I'm sorry but if thats the best you can do, I feel bad for you lol. Wow