Two Plays That Spell "Culture Change"

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-19-2022, 01:53 AM)Science Friction Wrote: Two recent plays epitomize the change in culture from a losing mindset to a winning one .  These are the type of plays that I almost NEVER saw the Bengals make, or even attempt,  under the Lewis regime.

The first play was the 3rd and 11 pass to Higgins to finish off the Chiefs. Instead of running the ball and chewing up some more clock and then kicking the FG, Burrow and the Bengals went pass to effectively end the game right then and there.

The second play was today against the Bucs. Second down and 9 with 2:21 remaining. Instead of a run play to drain the clock down to two minutes, the Bengals decided to close the door right there, which they did with the 12 yd. TD pass to Mitch Wilcox.

In each case, the easy thing to do was drain some clock and play for an easy FG. But in each casr that would have left the door slightly ajar for the opposition.  In the case of the KC game it would given Mahomes a minute and a half to try and make up a six point deficit. That's a scary scenario for any defense to have to weather .  Granted, we probably still win today with a FG but Tom Brady has pulled off magic before with just a two score deficit late in a game. Stranger things have happened.  We didn't give him the chance to pull off a miracle.

My point is,  the Bengals did not give their opponents the chance to control their own destiny. They chose, instead,  to finish off the opposition with those plays when they had the opportunity. That's a winning mindset. That's a championship mindset.  It is the same mindset  we saw with Brady and Belichick with the Pats, or  Rodgers and Green Bay , as well as other championship teams. We never saw it with Marvin Lewis teams. It was always play it safe and hope the opponent doesn't make a play at the end to win the game. It was a play "not to lose" mentality, which, of course, almost always means you're gonna lose.

To me , these two plays pretty much epitomize a change from the old "we'll find a way to lose" mentality to a refreshing "we expect to win" mindset.

Agree or disagree?

Completely agree, great post. This team goes for your throat, they don't mess around. Scary team to play because even if you 
know that they are going to try and finish you off, you still cannot stop it with the scheme and players. Nothing like the way Marv
coached which was entirely conservative and didn't scare anyone. Refreshing to say the least for us Bengal fans.

[BengalYankee]

(12-19-2022, 02:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: Blasphemy!!!! In all honesty, I'd say that's probably accurate. What always endeared Sammy to me was the gambler side to him, and the innovation. His Cleveland speech and running up the score on Glanville didn't hurt.

You are probably going to hate me now. But I always enjoyed the antics of Glanville and Buddy Ryan. 

P.S. Thank goodness members can't give negative rep's. 

[BengalYankee]

(12-19-2022, 04:59 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Not just Burrow, but the new active front office that goes out and participates in FA and makes upgrades and adjustments to the staff, team and facilities.

People still dump on Marvin and to be fair he certainly made some questionable in game moves and would gamble on 2nd and 3rd chance guys in the draft, but if Marvin doesn't come here and drag Mike Brown kicking and screaming out of the dark ages to a more modern mindset, Burrow would be wasting away here like Palmer did. Marvin set the foundation that Taylor is able to continue to build on in terms of being a more modern and active franchise.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-19-2022, 11:10 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: It’s not just about those two plays though. Look at those entire DRIVES. I’ve never seen a Bengals team, or ANY team for that matter, have so many of these dominating game sealing drives in one season.

Both drives you mentioned (really we had 2 vs KC, one to take the lead and one to ice it) we had one against Atlanta, one against Tennessee and another vs Pittsburgh.

The “Big boy” or “F you” drives where the offense just comes out and says “we are better than you, you can not stop us and you will not win this game”. When these drives start, the game is still in question. After a few plays, everyone watching realizes the game is over even if there is still 7 minutes left. One team is in complete control and the other team is nothing but a helpless bystander.

I love those drives. We used to only see them when they were happening against us, but now we get to enjoy completely demoralizing the enemy at the end of a hard fought game because this team will not be denied.

Great post LF40. Yeah, love those "F you" drives lol

I honestly think our Defense intentionally let the Bucs score before the half so our Offense and Burrow would get the ball back to 
gain a bit of momentum. Not many teams do this, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was intentional. I knew right after the FG before
the half we were going to come back and win it and had no doubt about it. Pretty crazy, but that is the way I feel with this team 
now and never felt like that with any of Marv's teams, even the ones with Palmer who was a fine QB in his prime.

(12-19-2022, 12:29 PM)Interceptor Wrote: This team used to be the AFCN/Central punching bag. Now that it grew fangs and claws and is swole like the Hulk, everyone who bullied us started complaining. Complaining to the refs. Complaining about the refs. Still playing those shit mind-games and taking cheap shots. (Yeah, I'm talking to you Steelers. And Minkah) But all that seems to not matter with THIS team. They don't bother with the petty shit. They don't listen to trash talk. They fight for extra yards. They go for it when they smell blood. This team is focused more than I've ever seen. I never got this "killer vibe" with ML - especially when the team falls behind. And ML did absolutely no halftime adjustments.

Yesterday was a weird feeling. The offense did nothing and the defense was not much better. I bought into the Kool-Aid. No panic or stress. I had a feeling someone was going to open up like a raging flood but just didn't know who. I got texts from my friends poking me about Brady and the first half. I just texted back "We're a 2nd half team" and left it at that. And then everyone saw what happened.

Another great post Interceptor. They DO listen to the trash talk, they just use it. Had the same feeling BTW.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-19-2022, 01:53 AM)Science Friction Wrote: Two recent plays epitomize the change in culture from a losing mindset to a winning one .  These are the type of plays that I almost NEVER saw the Bengals make, or even attempt,  under the Lewis regime.

The first play was the 3rd and 11 pass to Higgins to finish off the Chiefs. Instead of running the ball and chewing up some more clock and then kicking the FG, Burrow and the Bengals went pass to effectively end the game right then and there.

The second play was today against the Bucs. Second down and 9 with 2:21 remaining. Instead of a run play to drain the clock down to two minutes, the Bengals decided to close the door right there, which they did with the 12 yd. TD pass to Mitch Wilcox.

I'm not sure if someone else pointed this out. But we had a 6 yard run on 1st down. Leaving us with 2nd and 4 with the next play gonna take it to the 2 minute warning. Everything says you run the ball especially because we had been running well. Instead we try to throw and Burrow gets sacked to make it 3rd and 11. So kind of a no brainer to pass to pick up the 1st down. Not saying I disagree with your overall sentiment as we have a really good unit right now and I did really like that touchdown call to Wilcox. 

I personally think the difference between this team and any of Lewis is Burrow and the skill players. Then add that with our free agencies that last few years. It allowed us to build the team in multiple areas each year which really helped.

[Nepa]

(12-19-2022, 07:35 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm not sure if someone else pointed this out. But we had a 6 yard run on 1st down. Leaving us with 2nd and 4 with the next play gonna take it to the 2 minute warning. Everything says you run the ball especially because we had been running well. Instead we try to throw and Burrow gets sacked to make it 3rd and 11. So kind of a no brainer to pass to pick up the 1st down. Not saying I disagree with your overall sentiment as we have a really good unit right now and I did really like that touchdown call to Wilcox. 

I personally think the difference between this team and any of Lewis is Burrow and the skill players. Then add that with our free agencies that last few years. It allowed us to build the team in multiple areas each year which really helped.

Definitely not a no-brainer to go for the 1st down on 3 and 11 in that situation. Two of the Bengals players themselves, including HIggins, stated after the game that they expressed surprise in the huddle that the Bengals were going to throw. Almost every coach probably would have run to take the clock down, rather than risk a stopped clock, or heaven forbid an interception. If it had been an incomplete pass, and then Mahomes had driven down with the extra 30 seconds to get a game-winning TD, Bengal fans everywhere would have ripped the decision to go for it. So, definitely not a no-brainer to go for it. It took a lot of intestinal fortitude to go for it.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-19-2022, 07:45 PM)Nepa Wrote: Definitely not a no-brainer to go for the 1st down on 3 and 11 in that situation. Two of the Bengals players themselves, including HIggins, stated after the game that they expressed surprise in the huddle that the Bengals were going to throw. Almost every coach probably would have run to take the clock down, rather than risk a stopped clock, or heaven forbid an interception. If it had been an incomplete pass, and then Mahomes had driven down with the extra 30 seconds to get a game-winning TD, Bengal fans everywhere would have ripped the decision to go for it. So, definitely not a no-brainer to go for it. It took a lot of intestinal fortitude to go for it.

Well we are gonna have to agree to disagree. The surprise should've been that we decided to throw on 2nd and 4. Once you make that decision and end up with 3rd and 11 I think it's a no brainer to throw for the 1st. The reason why is because your up 3 and a field goal only puts you up 6 which might actually hurt you because it forces the Chiefs hand to push for the TD rather than settle for a field goal. I don't think a 1:30 is that much different than a 1:50 to Mahommes. I also think we had completely made up our mind to throw on 2nd and 4 because we let the game clock run completely run down to 1 sec and then burned a timeout. I was wondering what the heck we were doing because the Chiefs were out of timeouts and it didn't matter if we snapped it and ran with 2:25 on the clock it would still roll to the 2 min warning. Burning as much time as possible isn't bad incase of a catastrophic play result but it may have been a tell to the defense.

[mhbsavant]

(12-19-2022, 01:53 AM)Science Friction Wrote: Two recent plays epitomize the change in culture from a losing mindset to a winning one .  These are the type of plays that I almost NEVER saw the Bengals make, or even attempt,  under the Lewis regime.

The first play was the 3rd and 11 pass to Higgins to finish off the Chiefs. Instead of running the ball and chewing up some more clock and then kicking the FG, Burrow and the Bengals went pass to effectively end the game right then and there.

The second play was today against the Bucs. Second down and 9 with 2:21 remaining. Instead of a run play to drain the clock down to two minutes, the Bengals decided to close the door right there, which they did with the 12 yd. TD pass to Mitch Wilcox.

In each case, the easy thing to do was drain some clock and play for an easy FG. But in each casr that would have left the door slightly ajar for the opposition.  In the case of the KC game it would given Mahomes a minute and a half to try and make up a six point deficit. That's a scary scenario for any defense to have to weather .  Granted, we probably still win today with a FG but Tom Brady has pulled off magic before with just a two score deficit late in a game. Stranger things have happened.  We didn't give him the chance to pull off a miracle.

My point is,  the Bengals did not give their opponents the chance to control their own destiny. They chose, instead,  to finish off the opposition with those plays when they had the opportunity. That's a winning mindset. That's a championship mindset.  It is the same mindset  we saw with Brady and Belichick with the Pats, or  Rodgers and Green Bay , as well as other championship teams. We never saw it with Marvin Lewis teams. It was always play it safe and hope the opponent doesn't make a play at the end to win the game. It was a play "not to lose" mentality, which, of course, almost always means you're gonna lose.

To me , these two plays pretty much epitomize a change from the old "we'll find a way to lose" mentality to a refreshing "we expect to win" mindset.

Agree or disagree?

Giggles hated winning... he always wanted drama at the end, he would have definitely ran the ball and would've been clapping screaming "let's go" the whole while when the other team was driving it down to win!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-19-2022, 06:14 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: You are probably going to hate me now. But I always enjoyed the antics of Glanville and Buddy Ryan. 

P.S. Thank goodness members can't give negative rep's. 

Nah, loved em both. I was a HUGE Mike Leach fan. What I'm saying is, Sammy fought iron with iron on Jerry. Don't think Jerry wouldn't have done the same if he could have. There was no love lost there. It's kinda like Vontaze Burfict's one man crusade against the Stoolers.

Fun fact, Jerry Glanville actually drove for several years in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series, and limited Busch Series races. Kinda like double A and Triple A ball of stock car racing.

[BengalYankee]

(12-19-2022, 07:35 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I personally think the difference between this team and any of Lewis is Burrow and the skill players. Then add that with our free agencies that last few years. It allowed us to build the team in multiple areas each year which really helped.

[Soonerpeace]

(12-19-2022, 10:05 PM)BengalYankee Wrote:

The entire roster Zac and Duke’s staff have built it the biggest difference. With our recent injuries and w/o Boyd or Higgins last week no way Lewis wins that game. The roster in its entirety is better and the culture.

D J Reader

"I enjoy playing with
this team,
said DI
Reader, who forced a
fumble and batted
down another pass.
"Guys are in there
grinding. I have been
a part of some great
locker rooms. But I
have never had guys from top to bottom,
our rookies grind, our
older guys grind.
Everybody in the
middle, they just
grind. Our coaches
grind. How do you
not want to play for
that?"

[BengalYankee]

(12-19-2022, 10:17 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The entire roster Zac and Duke’s staff have built it the biggest difference. With our recent injuries and w/o Boyd or Higgins last week no way Lewis wins that game. The roster in its entirety is better and the culture.

D J Reader

"I enjoy playing with
this team,
said DI
Reader, who forced a
fumble and batted
down another pass.
"Guys are in there
grinding. I have been
a part of some great
locker rooms. But I
have never had guys from top to bottom,
our rookies grind, our
older guys grind.
Everybody in the
middle, they just
grind. Our coaches
grind. How do you
not want to play for
that?"

???




NUGDUKWE Wrote:


I personally think the difference between this team and any of Lewis is ...


1. Burrow and the skill players. 
2. Then add that with our free agencies that last few years. 
3. It allowed us to build the team in multiple areas each year which really helped.


No one said that Lewis team's grinded better.
No one said Lewis team's were better, had more chemistry, had a better record, etc. 

Now ...

BengalYankee Wrote:


1. I know Marvin was our last Head Coach and you can use him as a reference. 
2. But what about the list of lovely Head Coaches before Marvin?
3. Marvin took a perennial laughing stock "Bungles" team to respectability.
4. There is a list of "Bungle" Head Coaches, you can choose before you keep attacking the Bengals coach with one of the highest percentage wins/losses in our history.   
5. I also think Marvin would have a better record if he had Joe B. 


In conclusion ...

The issue of the reply post was to compare this Bengals team/culture to ALL Bengals team/cultures. 
Did you not read what I wrote??? See bolded note 2.  
There is a large enough sample of horrible head coaches to choose from Shula, Coslet, LeBeau, Rice, etc.