Two trans teen win Conn. state championship in track

[Millhouse]

So in Connecticut, two trans-girls finished first and second in the state championship track meet in 100 & 200. Both have male bodies, but identify as a girl. So naturally they are no different than biological girls, and thus are allowed to run with normal girls (normal biologically that is).

Im pretty sure where most stand on this issue. I know there is even one who leans left in here is against trans girls in a male body is against this in general. Others think this is the politically correct thing to do, even if it screws over girls in girl bodies from having a fair competition.

And I am very sure someone will blather on about elite college or pro girl athletes beating some guys. But this isnt about that, this is about male-bodies beating girl-bodies.

Personally, I feel bad for the girls that busted their ass to get that far, only to lose to boys that think they are girls. Not that there is anything wrong with being trans or anything, but when it comes to sports like this, I will never be in favor of male-bodies competiting against girl-bodies, especially in track & field and other timed events like swimming.



http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/06/13/transgender-track-athletes-win-connecticut-state-championship-debate-ensues/

Quote:Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood dominated the competition at Connecticut’s girls track and field state championships earlier this week. Miller took 1st place in both the 100 and 200 meter dash, while Yearwood finished second in the 100. According to News 8 in Hartford, CT, both Miller and Yearwood are transgender which has some people saying that the pair had an unfair advantage.

According to News 8, petitions have been started by some parents and student-athletes to try and change the policy that allows athletes in high schools to compete for the gender specific sport they identify with. But, the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference says in order for that to happen, state law would also need to change. The station spoke to several people who were largely in favor of allowing Miller and Yearwood to compete against the girls.

“You have some people who believe men are stronger and faster so I can understand if an athlete is born male but identifying as a female and compete as one, some females will feel a particular way about it,” Clinton Baker said.

“If she identifies as a girl then I think she should be able to run in the race because she can use the ladies room, she can wear a skirt, why not run and stay active,” Natasha Morgan said.

“The cream rises to the top,” Baker added. “Athletes now will tell you if you put UConn women on the court with men, UConn men might lose. It’s all in the spirit of competition, hard work and heart.”

Connecticut isn’t the only state in which the debate about transgender athletes in high school sports has taken place. In Texas, Mack Beggs, the two-time girls state wrestling champion, has been forced by state law to wrestle against girls despite transitioning from girl to boy because the policy there forces athletes to compete in the gender that is on their birth certificate.

[*bfine32*]

(06-15-2018, 02:07 PM)Millhouse Wrote: So in Connecticut, two trans-girls finished first and second in the state championship track meet in 100 & 200. Both have male bodies, but identify as a girl. So naturally they are no different than biological girls, and thus are allowed to run with normal girls (normal biologically that is).

Im pretty sure where most stand on this issue. I know there is even one who leans left in here is against trans girls in a male body is against this in general. Others think this is the politically correct thing to do, even if it screws over girls in girl bodies from having a fair competition.

And I am very sure someone will blather on about elite college or pro girl athletes beating some guys. But this isnt about that, this is about male-bodies beating girl-bodies.

Personally, I feel bad for the girls that busted their ass to get that far, only to lose to boys that think they are girls. Not that there is anything wrong with being trans or anything, but when it comes to sports like this, I will never be in favor of male-bodies competiting against girl-bodies, especially in track & field and other timed events like swimming.



http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/06/13/transgender-track-athletes-win-connecticut-state-championship-debate-ensues/

I saw this story last night and was going to post it an ongoing transgender thread, so I typed transgender in the search window. The first 10 pages of threads were all locked. I found that amusing and wondered are we really that bad or is there another reason.

As to the story at hand I do not think any minor should be allowed to identify of a gender other than their biological sex to participate in athletics. Adults should only be allowed to do so after the nip and tuck.

[fredtoast]

I am as liberal as anyone, but I disagree with allowing anyone born with a mans body to compete as a woman. Even if they are in hormone treatment they were still born with a genetically superior body for athletics.

I don't think any guy would ever fake being trans just to win in athletics, but it still is not fair. Don't say they can't compete. Just let them compete against each other in a separate class.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-15-2018, 02:07 PM)Millhouse Wrote: So in Connecticut, two trans-girls finished first and second in the state championship track meet in 100 & 200. Both have male bodies, but identify as a girl. So naturally they are no different than biological girls, and thus are allowed to run with normal girls (normal biologically that is).

Im pretty sure where most stand on this issue. I know there is even one who leans left in here is against trans girls in a male body is against this in general. Others think this is the politically correct thing to do, even if it screws over girls in girl bodies from having a fair competition.

And I am very sure someone will blather on about elite college or pro girl athletes beating some guys. But this isnt about that, this is about male-bodies beating girl-bodies.

Personally, I feel bad for the girls that busted their ass to get that far, only to lose to boys that think they are girls. Not that there is anything wrong with being trans or anything, but when it comes to sports like this, I will never be in favor of male-bodies competiting against girl-bodies, especially in track & field and other timed events like swimming.



http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/06/13/transgender-track-athletes-win-connecticut-state-championship-debate-ensues/

Kinda shows that there IS a biological difference between male and female aside from reproductive organs.

[fredtoast]

(06-15-2018, 02:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Kinda shows that there IS a biological difference between male and female aside from reproductive organs.

I don't think anyone has ever disagreed with this.

[Millhouse]

(06-15-2018, 02:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Kinda shows that there IS a biological difference between male and female aside from reproductive organs.

This has been known for 1000s of years, as both have evolved quite differently in bone and muscle structure.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-15-2018, 02:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think anyone has ever disagreed with this.

You'd be surprised. 

[*michaelsean*]

I agree that I doubt they did this to win school sports, but it's still just not fair.

[Belsnickel]

(06-15-2018, 02:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I saw this story last night and was going to post it an ongoing transgender thread, so I typed transgender in the search window. The first 10 pages of threads were all locked. I found that amusing and wondered are we really that bad or is there another reason.

What happened was the admins were late to lock down the forum one weekend and so a moderator locked all of the threads to get a similar effect. Instead of unlocking all of the threads, one of the admins unlocked the first two pages when I alerted them to it.

[Belsnickel]

For the topic of the thread, my opinions are that if a trans person is engaged in hormone therapy and their levels are at a certain point, I have zero problems with them competing with others of their gender. There are all sorts of things that individuals have that give them a competitive advantage that we don't disqualify them for. There are biological women with conditions that causes elevated testosterone. There are athletes with conditions that reduces the amount of oxygen their bodies need, which allows them to have longer stamina. Unless we were to eliminate people with those conditions from competition, I don't see a justifiable reason for disqualifying a trans person undergoing hormone therapy from competition.

[BmorePat87]

Same thing I've said in previously threads about this topic. I support the NCAA policy on this. Anyone competing must have been undergoing hormone therapy for at least a year.

[BFritz21]

I agree that they shouldn't be able to compete against girls because of all the biological advantages that a boy has over a girl, but I just think it's hilarious that this is where some are drawing the line. You identify as a female, so you can use the women's restroom, but don't you dare compete against them in track!

"But it could be taking opportunities away from biological females!"

What about the opportunity of a little girl to grow up and not be scarred with seeing a grown man naked in the locker room or bathroom?

Either you're a female or you're not, which they're clearly not.

Very hypocritical.

[fredtoast]

(06-18-2018, 10:46 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree that they shouldn't be able to compete against girls because of all the biological advantages that a boy has over a girl, but I just think it's hilarious that this is where some are drawing the line.  You identify as a female, so you can use the women's restroom, but don't you dare compete against them in track!

"But it could be taking opportunities away from biological females!"

What about the opportunity of a little girl to grow up and not be scarred with seeing a grown man naked in the locker room or bathroom?

Either you're a female or you're not, which they're clearly not.

Very hypocritical.

In a piublic restroom the little girl can not tell a man from a woman.

But I disagree with letting transgenders use locker rooms.

Nothing hypocritical about my position.  I think transgenders should be given as many rights as possible as long as they do not interfere with others.  That is where i draw the line.  In the case of locker rooms I don't feel they should be forced to use either.  Instead they should be provided a private shower and changing facility.

[BFritz21]

(06-18-2018, 10:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In a piublic restroom the little girl can not tell a man from a woman.

But I disagree with letting transgenders use locker rooms.

Nothing hypocritical about my position.  I think transgenders should be given as many rights as possible as long as they do not interfere with others.  That is where i draw the line.  In the case of locker rooms I don't feel they should be forced to use either.  Instead they should be provided a private shower and changing facility.

So women never change clothes when they're in a hurry outside of a stall on a busy day?  Actually, is it abnormal to see a woman changing out in front of the mirror, whether she's in a hurry or not?

[BFritz21]

(06-18-2018, 10:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In a piublic restroom the little girl can not tell a man from a woman.

But I disagree with letting transgenders use locker rooms.

Nothing hypocritical about my position.  I think transgenders should be given as many rights as possible as long as they do not interfere with others.  That is where i draw the line.  In the case of locker rooms I don't feel they should be forced to use either.  Instead they should be provided a private shower and changing facility.

And a woman might feel uncomfortable whether a transgender male is in the same bathroom as her, in a stall or not, so is that not interfere with a woman's right to use the restroom in peace?

Seems hypocritical..............

[*michaelsean*]

(06-18-2018, 09:32 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: For the topic of the thread, my opinions are that if a trans person is engaged in hormone therapy and their levels are at a certain point, I have zero problems with them competing with others of their gender. There are all sorts of things that individuals have that give them a competitive advantage that we don't disqualify them for. There are biological women with conditions that causes elevated testosterone. There are athletes with conditions that reduces the amount of oxygen their bodies need, which allows them to have longer stamina. Unless we were to eliminate people with those conditions from competition, I don't see a justifiable reason for disqualifying a trans person undergoing hormone therapy from competition.

Athletics are divided up by sex.  It's based purely on physical traits.  It can't be both ways.  If gender and sex are different, then gender is irrelevant here.  

[Belsnickel]

(06-18-2018, 11:12 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Athletics are divided up by sex.  It's based purely on physical traits.  It can't be both ways.  If gender and sex are different, then gender is irrelevant here.  

So what about intersex athletes?

[*michaelsean*]

(06-18-2018, 11:22 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So what about intersex athletes?

What do you mean?

[Belsnickel]

(06-18-2018, 11:28 AM)michaelsean Wrote: What do you mean?

There are people in this world that are not male or female, they are intersex. We often think of biological sex as a dichotomy, but it is actually more of a spectrum, much like gender. This is a biological thing, not a social construct like gender. So how do we handle intersex athletes?

[treee]

Why not just have 3 categories, the 3rd being one that anyone can participate in.