UK poisoning

[GMDino]

(04-03-2018, 07:06 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: You hate germans, good for you. ( Actually I'm searching for something you could like ... )

We don't.

We don't need your political advices because first, they are terrible and second you are not european and have no business in it.

Nazis?

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-03-2018, 10:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Nazis?

Motherland Russia.

[BmorePat87]

(04-03-2018, 09:00 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Freely joining a trade union who has seized power over member courts, borders, currency, and even elections in some cases.

There it’s fixed for you.

Somehow freewill is still not worse than being invaded. 

[StLucieBengal]

(04-04-2018, 11:17 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Somehow freewill is still not worse than being invaded. 

The Lisbon treaty was not free will.

[BmorePat87]

(04-04-2018, 12:54 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The Lisbon treaty was not free will.

It was though. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-04-2018, 02:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It was though. 

Representative democracy is ok, as long as it serves the will of your side of things. Also, when referendums are redone because of low turnout or hinkiness in the procedures and the result of the new vote shows that the first vote was actually bullshit, the second vote is actually bullshit.

These are things I have learned, here.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

OP we get it, your wife is Russian, and you like Russia. You like visiting Russia. I'm sure it's an interesting place. But your suggestion that Germany is a worse actor than Russia is just dumb. I really don't know how else to put it.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-04-2018, 02:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Representative democracy is ok, as long as it serves the will of your side of things. Also, when referendums are redone because of low turnout or hinkiness in the procedures and the result of the new vote shows that the first vote was actually bullshit, the second vote is actually bullshit.

These are things I have learned, here.

Forcing people to revote until they vote the way the EU wants isn’t me complaining about my side. This is Soviet Union type stuff.

I support an EU trade union. The rest is unnecessary.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-04-2018, 03:25 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: OP we get it, your wife is Russian, and you like Russia. You like visiting Russia. I'm sure it's an interesting place. But your suggestion that Germany is a worse actor than Russia is just dumb. I really don't know how else to put it.

I do like to travel to former Soviet Union countries. The History is pretty cool. And my enjoyment of Soviet/world war history has zero to do with my wife or my travel Habits.

I also never said Russia was innocent. I just want us to be working in places we can work with ofc one Eye open. As far as Germany, I don’t think they are an enemy currently, but I see them developing into one as time moves forward based on the powergrab by the eu.

I just want us to keep an Eye open on Germany the same way we should be doing with Russia, China, etc. I don’t see the big deal of us staying on top countries with a nefarious history. Heck the government already wiretaps Merkel, they obviously do not trust them or have a reason to covertly monitor them.

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/04/04/britains-foreign-office-deletes-tweet-accusing-russia-produced-salisbury-attack-nerve-agent/

UK foreign office deletes tweet accusing Russia of making the nerve agent. Could this be the first step to walking that back? If the Russians didn’t make it then it could get tense in Europe.

Quote:Britain’s Foreign Office Deletes Tweet Accusing Russia of Having Produced Salisbury Attack Nerve Agent
by Oliver JJ Lane4 Apr 201867

Getty Images / Collage

Britain’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office have made an unusual apparent U-turn on their previously robust rhetoric on the origin of the nerve agent used to poison Sergei and Julia Skripal Wednesday, just hours after chiefs at the Port on Down defence laboratory — home to Britain’s chemical weapons research establishment — denied they had been able to isolate the origin of the chemical.


The Foreign Office Tweet, which had come on the 22nd of March as the account live-Tweeted remarks of Britains’ ambassador to Russia and said: “analysis by world-leading experts… made clear that this was a military-grade Novickok nerve agent produced in Russia”. The Foreign Office confirmed they had deleted the tweet Wednesday.



The Tweet came after Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson told German television that there was “no doubt” the nerve agent had come from Russia, and he had recieved personal assurances from Porton Down to that effect.

Depite that, Gary Aitkenhead, chief executive of the Porton Down defence laboratory told Britain’s Sky News this week that analysts had identified it as military-grade Novichok, but they had not proved it was made in Russia.

“We have not identified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific info to government who have then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions,” he said.

“It is our job to provide the scientific evidence of what this particular nerve agent is. We identified that it is from this particular family and that it is a military grade, but it is not our job to say where it was manufactured.”

The Foreign Office deletion u-turn comes amid heightened tensions between Russia and Western nations. Breitbart London reported in March on strident rhetoric published in Russia’s Pravda, a news organisation traditionally thought of as a Kremlin mouthpiece, which invoked previously forgotten rhetoric warning: “we are in a state of real and full-scale Cold War with all the ensuing consequences”.

AFP contributed to this article

[GMDino]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/03/porton-down-experts-unable-to-verify-precise-source-of-novichok

Quote:British scientists at the Porton Down defence research laboratory have not established that the nerve agent used to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal was made in Russia, it has emerged.



Gary Aitkenhead, the chief executive of the government’s Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL), said the poison had been identified as a military-grade novichok nerve agent, which could probably be deployed only by a nation state.



Aitkenhead said the government had reached its conclusion that Russia was responsible for the Salisbury attack by combining the laboratory’s scientific findings with information from other sources.



The UK government moved quickly to make it clear that the prime minister, Theresa May, had always been clear the assessment from Porton Down was “only one part of the intelligence picture”. The comments came hours before an extraordinary meeting in The Hague of the executive council of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), called by Russia.



Speaking to Sky News, Aitkenhead said it was not possible for scientists alone to say precisely where the novichok had been created.



He said: “It’s a military-grade nerve agent, which requires extremely sophisticated methods in order to create – something that’s probably only within the capabilities of a state actor.”



He denied Russian claims that the substance could have come from Porton Down, which is eight miles from Salisbury, saying: “There’s no way that anything like that would ever have come from us or leave the four walls of our facilities.”



Aitkenhead said: “We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify it was a military-grade nerve agent. We have not verified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific information to the government, who have then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions that they have come to.”



He said the location of manufacture could be established through “a number of different input sources which the government has access to”, adding: “Scientific evidence is only one of those sources.”



Aitkenhead said Porton Down was continuing to work on the substance to try to provide additional information that might help.


He also said there was no known antidote to novichok but said Porton Down had advised Salisbury district hospital on how to treat the Skripals.

Seizing on Aitkenhead’s remarks, Vladimir Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Britain will have to apologise to Russia for its “mad accusations” that “have no foundation whatsoever.”


The Russian embassy in London said the UK’s claims that Moscow was behind the attack was a “bluff” and added: “This has been confirmed by the head of the secret lab. This only proves that all political declarations on the Russian origin of the crime are nothing but assumptions not stemming from objective facts or the course of the investigation.”


A UK government spokesman played down the signficance of Aitkenhead’s remarks. He said: “We have been clear from the very beginning that our world-leading experts at Porton Down identified the substance used in Salisbury as a novichok.



“This is only one part of the intelligence picture. As the prime minister has set out in a number of statements to the Commons since 12 March, this includes our knowledge that within the last decade Russia has investigated ways of delivering nerve agents probably for assassination – and as part of this programme has produced and stockpiled small quantities of novichoks; Russia’s record of conducting state-sponsored assassinations; and our assessment that Russia views former intelligence officers as targets.



“It is our assessment that Russia was responsible for this brazen and reckless act and, as the international community agrees, there is no other plausible explanation.”


However, two weeks ago Boris Johnson was asked by an interviewer on Deutsche Welle, Germany’s public international broadcaster, how the UK had been able to find out the novichok originated from Russia so quickly.


He replied: “When I look at the evidence, the people from Porton Down, the laboratory, they were absolutely categorical. I asked the guy myself, I said: ‘Are you sure?’ And he said: ‘There’s no doubt.’ So we have very little alternative but to take the action that we have taken.”


Looking ahead to Wednesday’s OPCW meeting, a Foreign Office spokesman said Russia had called it to try to undermine the work of the organisation. The spokesperson said: “This Russian initiative is yet again another diversionary tactic, intended to undermine the work of the OPCW in reaching a conclusion.”


The Russian ambassador to Ireland, Yury Filatov, was the latest to join the criticism from Russia over the UK’s handing of the aftermath of the attack.


He said Russia wanted Britain to “provide every possible element of evidence” it had, adding: “We certainly reject any notion or claim of Russian involvement in the Salisbury incident. We will not tolerate this kind of irresponsible and basically indecent behaviour on the part of the British government. They will have to answer for that.”


Russia’s deputy foreign minister, Alexander Grushko, called the attack a “provocation arranged by Britain” to justify high military spending because “they need a major enemy”.

[StLucieBengal]

So sure they are removing statements saying so......

[THE Bigzoman]

(04-03-2018, 02:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Germany had threatened Europe via the EU.   Both economically and territorially.

There is zero reason to give Germany a pass in anything.   They should be treated the exact same as Russia.  They are not a force for good and they certainly should not be trusted.

Not jumping on your hate Germany train here...

But did the EU end up bailing out Deutche Bank? If they went against the precedent they set when Italy and smaller EU nations were buckeling under the financial crisis, you could say Germany is shady at the very least.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-04-2018, 10:57 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Not jumping on your hate Germany train here...

But did the EU end up bailing out Deutche Bank? If they went against the precedent they set when Italy and smaller EU nations were buckeling under the financial crisis, you could say Germany is shady at the very least.

This is my point. Not saying they are flat out evil atm, just saying they are shady and trending to a bad place.

Many here want to jump on the extreme portion of this and not acknowledge where Germany is trending.

[Dill]

(04-03-2018, 01:48 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The Germans also have an interest in smearing the Russians as well.  I don’t think they did it, but I am also not willing to dismiss them.  They aren’t a good county. 
I’m also very skeptical of Russia.  
I just wonder why we aren’t as skeptical of Germany since their history is worse.    

Russia has us to thank for Lenin and Stalin.  Thanks Woodrow Wilson, and his late entry into the war and his forcing the Russians to stay fighting.  We are Probably the cause of hitler as well.  Although they were already evil.

  Perhaps the US should be paying reparations to Poland and other Nazi occupied lands, since Hitler was our fault.
 

I believe I can answer your question, Lucy: we are less skeptical of Germany because they are a democracy and an ally.  Russia is not.

That Germany had a "worse history" 70 years ago doesn't have much bearing on Germany today; our social amnesia is much worse than theirs. 

But has it escaped your notice that Russia has a "worse history" today--right now?  How many journalists have mysteriously died in Germany since 2000? How many German ex pats have poisoned or otherwise died mysterious deaths? How many military assaults has Germany launched on its neighbors since 1996? Which international observers/watchdogs challenge the legitimacy of German elections? How many people are deprived of freedom and property in Germany because they oppose Merkel?

Where is Russia "trending"?

[StLucieBengal]

(04-05-2018, 01:46 AM)Dill Wrote:   Perhaps the US should be paying reparations to Poland and other Nazi occupied lands, since Hitler was our fault.
 

I believe I can answer your question, Lucy: we are less skeptical of Germany because they are a democracy and an ally.  Russia is not.

That Germany had a "worse history" 70 years ago doesn't have much bearing on Germany today; our social amnesia is much worse than theirs. 

But has it escaped your notice that Russia has a "worse history" today--right now?  How many journalists have mysteriously died in Germany since 2000? How many German ex pats have poisoned or otherwise died mysterious deaths? How many military assaults has Germany launched on its neighbors since 1996? Which international observers/watchdogs challenge the legitimacy of German elections? How many people are deprived of freedom and property in Germany because they oppose Merkel?

Where is Russia "trending"?

I never said we shouldn’t be skeptical of Russia. We should be as skeptical of Germany as. We are of Russia or China.

Obama was tapping Merkel phones so he must have had a reason right lol

[Dill]

(04-05-2018, 02:04 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I never said we shouldn’t be skeptical of Russia.  We should be as skeptical of Germany as. We are of Russia or China.  

Obama  was tapping Merkel phones so he must have had a reason right lol

You got me, Lucy.

If Obama tapped Merke's phone then I'm on red alert. He wouldn't do that just because the US monitors everyone it can.

Rather than focus on Russia, let's admit all those foreign countries are not to be trusted. Distrust them all.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-05-2018, 02:20 AM)Dill Wrote: You got me, Lucy.

If Obama tapped Merke's phone then I'm on red alert. He wouldn't do that just because the US monitors everyone it can.

Rather than focus on Russia, let's admit all those foreign countries are not to be trusted. Distrust them all.

Hw about lets just keep an eye on countries with a bad history. why is it so painful for you to just say let’s keep an eye on historical bad countries. Germany shouldn’t get to white wash their history while we hold others to a different standard

[GMDino]

(04-05-2018, 11:49 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Hw about lets just keep an eye on countries with a bad history.  why is it so painful for you to just say let’s keep an eye on historical bad countries.   Germany shouldn’t get to white wash their history while we hold others to a different standard

We do keep an eye on them.  We also base a lot of what we do and say of what they are CURRENTLY doing while we are watching them.  

[Belsnickel]

(04-05-2018, 11:49 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Hw about lets just keep an eye on countries with a bad history. why is it so painful for you to just say let’s keep an eye on historical bad countries. Germany shouldn’t get to white wash their history while we hold others to a different standard

We try to white wash our history and hold others to a different standard. So why not?