US military commander in Iraq and Syria rejects GOP pledges to 'carpet-bomb' Isis

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-02-2016, 09:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Well we can trace that decision back to Woodrow Wilson .   He forced us into WW1 and that in turn demolished Germany instead of what would have happened had we stayed out.   Which was both sides go home and save some face.    Wilson forcing the Russians to stay in and then joining the fight....  This smashed Germany to the point that it enabled the Nazi's to come to power.     Which of course impacted the Jews and led to Israel.  

Wilson stays out of WW1 then we never see the Lenin, Stalin,  or hitler come to power.

By you're reasoning we can trace that decision back to the Declaration of Independence. If we never become a country we never recognize Israel. 

[BmorePat87]

(02-02-2016, 09:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Well we can trace that decision back to Woodrow Wilson .   He forced us into WW1 and that in turn demolished Germany instead of what would have happened had we stayed out.   Which was both sides go home and save some face.    Wilson forcing the Russians to stay in and then joining the fight....  This smashed Germany to the point that it enabled the Nazi's to come to power.     Which of course impacted the Jews and led to Israel.  

Wilson stays out of WW1 then we never see the Lenin, Stalin,  or hitler come to power.

This is beyond silly, but I am going to focus on the last sentence. You're suggesting that Wilson asking Congress to declare war on Germany, after Germany attacked numerous American merchant ships and asked Mexico to invade the US, is what caused Lenin to come into power.

Not instability caused by the February Revolution 2 months PRIOR to the US declaring war on Germany.

Not social inequality.

Not food shortages.

Not the fact that workers in key industries were sympathetic to the Bolsheviks 

Not a social class system that was stuck in the 1600's. 

Not the provisional government's attempts to put down peasant revolts


It was Woodrow Wilson going to war with Germany.

[BmorePat87]

Also you're completely ignoring the fact that Wilson was the only major leader who didn't want to completely punish Germany and wanted to address all of the main causes of the war through his 14 points in an attempt to prevent any of this from happening again.

If you're going to blame the people who were attacked by Germany and defeated them for Germany's instability in the interwar period (instead of, you know, blaming Germany's leadership before and during the war), at least blame the leaders who imposed the strong sanctions.

The Allies also merely expelled the Germans out of France/Belgium before forcing them to sign an armistice. I'm not sure how they "smashed" them.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-02-2016, 09:37 PM)McC Wrote: Given that we're never gonna abandon Israel, what do we do about this thing now and in the future?  That's the real question.

What is the main strategic reason we care about the Middle East?  Mainly oil. So maybe instead of wasting all this money on Israel and Saudia Arabia and an unwinable war on terror we use it on R&D for the fuel to replace oil then we don't give a shit about the Middle East. 

[GMDino]

(02-02-2016, 10:42 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What is the main strategic reason we care about the Middle East?  Mainly oil. So maybe instead of wasting all this money on Israel and Saudia Arabia and an unwinable war on terror we use it on R&D for the fuel to replace oil then we don't give a shit about the Middle East. 

Should have be done / started in the 70's.

[McC]

(02-02-2016, 10:42 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What is the main strategic reason we care about the Middle East?  Mainly oil. So maybe instead of wasting all this money on Israel and Saudia Arabia and an unwinable war on terror we use it on R&D for the fuel to replace oil then we don't give a shit about the Middle East. 

Well,  if there was ever any intention to get off oil, it most certainly would have happened by now, so I don't have much hope for that happening in my lifetime.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-02-2016, 10:56 PM)McC Wrote: Well,  if there was ever any intention to get off oil, it most certainly would have happened by now, so I don't have much hope for that happening in my lifetime.

Whalers probably said the same thing. 

[fredtoast]

(02-02-2016, 09:37 PM)McC Wrote: Given that we're never gonna abandon Israel, what do we do about this thing now and in the future?  That's the real question.

You know a lot people told Martin Luther King that the south would never be integrated.

Why even look at a problem if you say it can ot be fixed?

[fredtoast]

(02-02-2016, 06:44 PM)McC Wrote: So what does that leave us?  To fight back.   The drones are an attempt to fight back without putting Americans at risk, for right or wrong.  We don't set out to kill civilians.  But if they die in the process, that's unfortunate but I'm not losing sleep over it.  They're not shedding a single tear for dead Americans or dead Frenchmen in a movie theater.  You can't really fight dogs with kid gloves.  You can't wallow in the mud but you have to get muddy sometimes.

What is the killing?  Seriously?  And as long as they are killing us, it will always be our problem.  Keep kidding yourself that leaving the Middle east will make it stop.

There are lots of options besides "fighting back".

The reason they attack us is because we are involved in the Middle East.  Don't take my word for it. Bin Laden said he took down the Towers because we had troops in Saudi Arabia and supported Israel.  The Sunni, Shia, and Jews have been at war with each other for ages, but when did they first start hating on the United States?

[*bfine32*]

(02-03-2016, 02:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You know a lot people told Martin Luther King that the south would never be integrated.

We called them Democrats.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-02-2016, 09:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It appears the General is in favor of more Ground Troops instead of wider-range bombing.

Who can disagree with that?

The last troop surge in Iraq fixed everything otherwise we might have a problem on our hands.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 02:33 AM)bfine32 Wrote: We called them Democrats.

Because you are ignorant of the facts.

Outside of the south Democrats actually supported the Civil Rights Act more than Republicans.


Also, I know I making good points when someone tries to hijack the thread and run away from the argument.

[McC]

(02-03-2016, 02:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: There are lots of options besides "fighting back".

The reason they attack us is because we are involved in the Middle East.  Don't take my word for it. Bin Laden said he took down the Towers because we had troops in Saudi Arabia and supported Israel.  The Sunni, Shia, and Jews have been at war with each other for ages, but when did they first start hating on the United States?

Well, we're never abandoning Israel or Saudi Arabia, so what other options are there?

And I still say that even if we did, it wouldn't make it stop.  The extremists will never quit.  There is no going back.  That leaves the only question being how do we go forward.

[Vas Deferens]

(02-03-2016, 01:30 PM)McC Wrote: Well, we're never abandoning Israel or Saudi Arabia, so what other options are there?

Everyone should be just as disgusted at zionism as you are by jihadism.  

Quote:And I still say that even if we did, it wouldn't make it stop.  The extremists will never quit.  There is no going back.  That leaves the only question being how do we go forward.

Because you avoided the question before, I'll ask you again...

So you think if we left the region got out of bed with Isreal, the same number of Americans would be 'killed' as if we stayed? 

[McC]

(02-03-2016, 01:45 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Everyone should be just as disgusted at zionism as you are by jihadism.  


Because you avoided the question before, I'll ask you again...

So you think if we left the region got out of bed with Isreal, the same number of Americans would be 'killed' as if we stayed? 

Yes I do.  It's an industry now.  And we're NEVER abandoning Israel, so stop with that, please.  If Obama wouldn't do it, no one ever will.  I get a kick out of the "all we have to do is leave" philosophy.  That is just not real world thinking at all.

And I also don't remember any Zionists killing American civilians.    

Guess I just can't comprehend the notion of Americans sticking up for Muslim extremists.  Just can't get my mind around that at all. They want you and yours dead too, you know.

[Vas Deferens]

(02-03-2016, 01:57 PM)McC Wrote: Yes I do.  It's an industry now.  And we're NEVER abandoning Israel, so stop with that, please.  If Obama wouldn't do it, no one ever will.  I get a kick out of the "all we have to do is leave" philosophy.  That is just not real world thinking at all.

So with less Americans in the region, the jihadist will just take the fight to US soil and have the same results over here even though we'd have all those service members HERE at home to help protect us...  Doesn't seem to add up.  Do they have advanced weaponry and transportation capabilities of which I am unaware?  

Quote:And I also don't remember any Zionists killing American civilians.     

USS liberty was a military attach on one of our vessels.  Should have turned our backs on them forever right then and there.

Israeli army kills 14-year old Palestinian with U.S. Citizenship

They are killing innocent people at an alarming rate as well.  Unfortunately they don't warrant some christian's ire because they've been duped into believing the isreali's respect christianity all of a sudden.  They don't.  They want to keep cheap munitions coming their way.


I'm sure you're away, but this is just one of many reasons Isreal has a target on its back in the region...


Are you in favor of supporting these people?  Or are you just content in the idea we won't stop supporting them?  Honest question.  

Quote:Guess I just can't comprehend the notion of Americans sticking up for Muslim extremists.  Just can't get my mind around that at all.  They want you and yours dead too, you know.

You keep saying this.  How am I 'sticking up' fore muslim extremists?  I just don't want to be involved anymore.  You have stated over and over there is no way to stop the extremism.  So why overly involve ourselves?  It only creates greater possibility for American loss of life and places an enormous burden on our economy.  Wanting to remove ourselves from a failed war is not akin to supporting the actions of religious nutjobs.  I think we have enough of those here at home to take care of.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 01:30 PM)McC Wrote: And I still say that even if we did, it wouldn't make it stop.  The extremists will never quit.  There is no going back.  

You can say it all you want, but that does not make it true.

When you look at facts (the specific reasons Bin Laden gave for attacking the United States) instead of just your opinion it appears that you are wrong.  You sound EXACTLY like the war hawks back in the 60's that insisted that there was no way the communist would ever stop until they had taken over the United States.  

Opinions based on fear mongering are not facts. 

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 01:57 PM)McC Wrote:      

Guess I just can't comprehend the notion of Americans sticking up for Muslim extremists. 

I could not get my mind aroiund that either, but I have not seen it happen?

Do you have a link to all these Americans who are "sticking up" for Muslim extremists?  Are they the same Americans who are "sticking up" for the way Kim Jung Il treats the citizens of North Korea?  Or the ones sticking up for genocidal war lords in Central Africa?

[McC]

(02-03-2016, 02:28 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: So with less Americans in the region, the jihadist will just take the fight to US soil and have the same results over here even though we'd have all those service members HERE at home to help protect us...  Doesn't seem to add up.  Do they have advanced weaponry and transportation capabilities of which I am unaware?  


USS liberty was a military attach on one of our vessels.  Should have turned our backs on them forever right then and there.

Israeli army kills 14-year old Palestinian with U.S. Citizenship

They are killing innocent people at an alarming rate as well.  Unfortunately they don't warrant some christian's ire because they've been duped into believing the isreali's respect christianity all of a sudden.  They don't.  They want to keep cheap munitions coming their way.


I'm sure you're away, but this is just one of many reasons Isreal has a target on its back in the region...


Are you in favor of supporting these people?  Or are you just content in the idea we won't stop supporting them?  Honest question.  


You keep saying this.  How am I 'sticking up' fore muslim extremists?  I just don't want to be involved anymore.  You have stated over and over there is no way to stop the extremism.  So why overly involve ourselves?  It only creates greater possibility for American loss of life and places an enormous burden on our economy.  Wanting to remove ourselves from a failed war is not akin to supporting the actions of religious nutjobs.  I think we have enough of those here at home to take care of.

It doesn't matter if i support it or not.  You're talking ideals, I'm talking reality.  And the reality is we will never stop supporting Israel.  So, forget about that notion.

Have the extremists said if you leave, it will stop.  No, they've declared that it will never stop.  Thinking all we have to do is leave is beyond naive.

Now, if you have a sworn enemy, which is the better way to hunt them down?  From across the desert or from across an ocean and halfway around the world. 

Also, don't you thing we need to be near Iran and those crazy bastards?


 

[Vas Deferens]

(02-03-2016, 03:14 PM)McC Wrote: It doesn't matter if i support it or not.  You're talking ideals, I'm talking reality.  And the reality is we will never stop supporting Israel.  So, forget about that notion.

How is predicting the future reality?  And it does matter if you support it or not.  If you don't support it, you should clearly state as such when asked.  If you do support it, tell me why.  If you're afraid to comment, blink twice.

Quote:Have the extremists said if you leave, it will stop.  No, they've declared that it will never stop.  Thinking all we have to do is leave is beyond naive.


Now, if you have a sworn enemy, which is the better way to hunt them down?  From across the desert or from across an ocean and halfway around the world.  

They can say whatever the **** they want to say.  That doesn't mean the have the necessary means to take the war to our soil.  How do they kill the same number of americans without us over there?  You have not answered that question.  You just say 'cuz they said so'.  WTF?  So you hate these people, think they are sub human, but believe their empty threats?    

Quote:Also, don't you thing we need to be near Iran and those crazy bastards?

why?  to protect isreal?